SOS/ACSC information

[ChkHandleDn]

On May 10, 2016 at 9:39 PM, gswolfpack said:

I just had a drop late notice IDE school slot pop for the National Intelligence Institute.  I am a pilot on the fence between this and the airlines and tomorrow is the deadline for an answer.   Anyone have gauge for this school that has been?   

Seniority is everything in the airlines. Passing on the opportunity to go to the airlines will not only cost you a lot of potential $, but will result in a lot of lost seniority numbers--especially at the rate we are hiring. Four years will be about 4,000+ either above you or below you depending on what you do. 

[ARAMP1]

7 hours ago, pcola said:

Sorry, no gouge on this school, but if you're on the fence between this and airlines, seems like a no brainier to me. This school is going to net you minimum 4 more years on AD, maybe more. You've got the year of school, followed by a three year school ADSC. Your post school assignment will most likely be staff. Assuming you still want an airline job, you'll probably want another post staff flying assignment to gain some recent currency. You'll be looking at another 2 years PCS ADSC, and possibly a requal ADSC. That will put you at, what, 17-19 years in following your next flying assignment? If anything, I'd think this "opportunity" would make the airlines the easy choice. YMMV

 

All this, plus depending on which airline you get on with (thinking Delta and FedEx here, but maybe more), by the time you're done with that school commitment, you could already be in the left seat.  

[gswolfpack]

fyi....i chose "no" on this.  It just wasnt a good move for me....airlines are too much potential

[tac airlifter]

10 hours ago, di1630 said:

Why does anyone other than the careerists want to do school in-Res?

You know that not everyone who goes in-res wants to, right?   About 30% of the folks at ACSC have told me they also would have prefered an option to decline while staying in the service; one girl even asked Gen Welsh why they force people to go in-res who don't want it.

 I went third look, with my only other choice being 7 day opt.  I don't want to do that, because I still believe in the value of my mission.  I'll suffer through staff for a chance to go back to ops.  FYI, I volunteered for RPAs to stay in ops.  Denied.

wolfpack: good call and good luck.

[General Chang]

4 hours ago, gswolfpack said:

fyi....i chose "no" on this.  It just wasnt a good move for me....airlines are too much potential

Too bad...these slots are huge leadership opportunities for those who earn them.  Money in the airlines isn't everything.  The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

[SnapLock]

9 minutes ago, General Chang said:

Too bad...these slots are huge leadership opportunities for those who earn them.  Money in the airlines isn't everything.  The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

It's not about the money Changer.  Haven't you been listening?  Wait, I know the answer to that.  

[ChkHandleDn]

11 hours ago, ARAMP1 said:

All this, plus depending on which airline you get on with (thinking Delta and FedEx here, but maybe more), by the time you're done with that school commitment, you could already be in the left seat.  

At Fedex you can be in the left seat before you're off probation!  Less than two years at Delta!

[ChkHandleDn]

3 hours ago, General Chang said:

Too bad...these slots are huge leadership opportunities for those who earn them.  Money in the airlines isn't everything.  The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

Bwahahahahaha!  Yeah, great leadership opportunities.  Who want's a 365 where you can write a leadership MFR telling people how to wear their PT gear!?

[hispeed7721]

 The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

You're not wrong about this statement, Chang. However a school spot is absolutely not one of them.

[TreeA10]

8 hours ago, General Chang said:

Too bad...these slots are huge leadership opportunities for those who earn them.  Money in the airlines isn't everything.  The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

Chang, as much as I hate to admit it, but YOU ARE RIGHT!!  Money isn't everything although it doesn't suck.  There is also the travel opportunities which are extensive.  There is the time off.  This is a double edged sword because it means home improvement projects but it also means I'm improving a house that is paid for and I won't have to move from unless I want to.  There is different forms of qweep but I don't have to deal with or ever see "my boss" unless I screw up and I haven't had to open up Powerpoint since I've had the job. There are my days off which are MINE unless I want to fly and they'll pay me more to do it.  3 days, $9K.  So, again, money isn't everything but it doesn't suck.

So, I would debate bypassing the opportunity to provide leadership vs the opportunity to suffer from its influence with the former winning.

[gswolfpack]

On 5/18/2016 at 8:20 AM, Karl Hungus said:

Were you an IDE select on your O-4 promotion board?  

Seems that drop-down IDE "opportunities" are becoming a lot more common.  IDE-selects are bailing left and right. The AF isn't retaining near as many "HPOs" as it thinks it is...

to answer this question.....i was not a select.  The slot fell to me......it was inside of 120 days so it was not a 7 day opt.  I also have another pilot friend who had an NPS slot fall to him and he declined as well.

[panchbarnes]

10 hours ago, General Chang said:

Too bad...these slots are huge leadership box-checking and managerial opportunities for those who earn them.  Money in the airlines isn't everything.  The Air Force provides leadership box-checking and managerial opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

FIFY. 

[di1630]

The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

You are right Chang! One of the things that kept me in was the stuff I can only do here. But doing PME in-res has near-ZERO impact on creating actual leaders. The good leaders in the USAF usually have been good leaders their whole life. Unfortunately the USAF thinks sending someone to Maxwell is a magic leadership ticket and had weak metrics for finding its real leaders. That's why people are jumping ship. The guys I would have followed into WW3 as a LT have jumped ship. Sadly, many of the guys I thought were risk adverse ass kissing d-bags with zero natural leadership talent went to school and are on their way to running things.

[BuddhaSixFour]

12 hours ago, General Chang said:

Too bad...these slots are huge leadership opportunities for those who earn them.  Money in the airlines isn't everything.  The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

As an IDE-select who passed on the opportunity, I have found this sentiment to be misleading. Good leadership is highly valued on both sides of the fence.  The Air Force has more opportunities per capita, but puts very tight left and right bounds in place. That makes it a better place to learn leadership. The outside world has fewer opportunities, but can have many more degrees of freedom. That makes it a better place to execute leadership.

-

[scoobs]

6 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

Chang, as much as I hate to admit it, but YOU ARE RIGHT!!  Money isn't everything although it doesn't suck.  There is also the travel opportunities which are extensive.  There is the time off.  This is a double edged sword because it means home improvement projects but it also means I'm improving a house that is paid for and I won't have to move from unless I want to.  There is different forms of qweep but I don't have to deal with or ever see "my boss" unless I screw up and I haven't had to open up Powerpoint since I've had the job. There are my days off which are MINE unless I want to fly and they'll pay me more to do it.  3 days, $9K.  So, again, money isn't everything but it doesn't suck.

So, I would debate bypassing the opportunity to provide leadership vs the opportunity to suffer from its influence with the former winning.

Premium pay?

[11F...]

15 hours ago, General Chang said:

Too bad...these slots are huge leadership opportunities for those who earn them.  Money in the airlines isn't everything.  The Air Force provides leadership opportunities you'll never find on the outside.

What a huge crock.  The only thing truthful in this statement is "money in the airlines isn't everything."  Which is ironic coming from you.  WTF is wrong with someone deciding to go on to a different career path, especially after serving 12 years of his life in honorable military service.  I understand you're always ganged up on this forum and thus feel the need to be defensive at every turn, but what is wrong with a guy getting out to earn more money and have a better QOL with his family.  He may very well find out that it was a mistake on the outside (and god forbid continue to serve in our guard or reserve force), but shake his hand, or on the message boards of the interwebs version, wish him good luck.  He's already made his choice, so no need to tell him what a dumb ass he is for making it.  Instead, why not say "thanks for your service, please tell all the kids that you give wings to to fly for the USAF, and I'm sure the guy that gets your spot at IDE will be grateful and kick ass since 99% of us do."

That's how you tactfully respond as a leader.  Even on the anonymous internet.  Not by being a dick. 

A WG/CC of mine years ago made an 11F who just quit (and not to join the airlines mind you, but just to go AGR) report to his office for a severe ass chewing for being a quitter and effectively gave him a much more foul mouthed version of what you basically just told wolfpack.  Then he finished and said, "I want you to go back to the squadron and tell every MFer what just happened here in case any one of them is thinking of quitting."  And he did.  Immediately.   The effect of this crossfit loving 1 star did not go as intended.  No one felt threatened.  Everyone did though have their "he's a dick" suspicions validated.   

Edited May 19, 2016 by 11F...
drinking and spelling simultaneously

[guineapigfury]

32 minutes ago, 11F... said:

A WG/CC of mine years ago made an 11F who just quit (and not to join the airlines mind you, but just to go AGR) report to his office for a severe ass chewing for being a quitter and effectively gave him a much more foul mouthed version of what you basically just told wolfpack.  Then he finished and said, "I want you to go back to the squadron and tell every MFer what just happened here in case any one of them is thinking of quitting."  And he did.  Immediately.   The effect of this crossfit loving 1 star did not go as intended.  No one felt threatened.  Everyone did though have their "he's a dick" suspicions validated.   

Where do they find these guys?  I'm starting to think ACSC stands for Airpower Clown School Course.

[TreeA10]

1 hour ago, scoobs said:

Premium pay?

Yep.  And better deals can be had at FedEx or Delta.

[Ram]

Premium pay?

Squawk IDENT with AFSC or STFU and let the adults talk.

[General Chang]

8 hours ago, 11F... said:

What a huge crock.  The only thing truthful in this statement is "money in the airlines isn't everything."  Which is ironic coming from you.  WTF is wrong with someone deciding to go on to a different career path, especially after serving 12 years of his life in honorable military service.  I understand you're always ganged up on this forum and thus feel the need to be defensive at every turn, but what is wrong with a guy getting out to earn more money and have a better QOL with his family.  He may very well find out that it was a mistake on the outside (and god forbid continue to serve in our guard or reserve force), but shake his hand, or on the message boards of the interwebs version, wish him good luck.  He's already made his choice, so no need to tell him what a dumb ass he is for making it.  Instead, why not say "thanks for your service, please tell all the kids that you give wings to to fly for the USAF, and I'm sure the guy that gets your spot at IDE will be grateful and kick ass since 99% of us do."

That's how you tactfully respond as a leader.  Even on the anonymous internet.  Not by being a dick. 

A WG/CC of mine years ago made an 11F who just quit (and not to join the airlines mind you, but just to go AGR) report to his office for a severe ass chewing for being a quitter and effectively gave him a much more foul mouthed version of what you basically just told wolfpack.  Then he finished and said, "I want you to go back to the squadron and tell every MFer what just happened here in case any one of them is thinking of quitting."  And he did.  Immediately.   The effect of this crossfit loving 1 star did not go as intended.  No one felt threatened.  Everyone did though have their "he's a dick" suspicions validated.   

Looking way too deeply into my words.  This forum is full of washed-up pessimists telling young people, "Leadership sucks, the AF sucks, get out ASAP."  That message is one-sided and must be counterbalanced with a more sensible message from leadership.  We have incredible leaders in our AF at all levels, and to get a slot for in-res education is an honor, whether you accept or not.  I am disappointed whenever a selectee turns down these incredible opportunities for leadership advancement, but in no way does that denegrate their service, as you seem to think I am implying.

Listen carefully...the grass isn't always greener.  If you earn a school opportunity, please seriously consider joining the ranks of our honorable AF leadership.  You won't regret saying yes, but you'll always have to live with the "what if" of saying no, and that deep regret may last a lifetime.

Young man: thank you for you service.

[WTFAF]

Listen carefully...

How about take some of your own advice and listen to the valid feedback to your insulting and misguided posts here. Your type of thinking is a key part of what is wrong with managers in today's Air Force.

No one is listening or buying into your bull$hit anyway.

[Guest]

Looking way too deeply into my words.  This forum is full of washed-up pessimists telling young people, "Leadership sucks, the AF sucks, get out ASAP."  

You are so out of touch. We are not "pessimists." The guys on BO.net represent a pretty accurate cross-section of the flying community. You've drank so much kool aid that you've become totally delusional and refuse to listen to the rank and file when they try to tell you how it actually is.

[SurelySerious]

Looking way too deeply into my words.  This forum is full of washed-up pessimists telling young people, "Leadership sucks, the AF sucks, get out ASAP."  That message is one-sided and must be counterbalanced with a more sensible message from leadership.  We have incredible leaders in our AF at all levels, and to get a slot for in-res education is an honor, whether you accept or not.  I am disappointed whenever a selectee turns down these incredible opportunities for leadership advancement, but in no way does that denegrate their service, as you seem to think I am implying.

Listen carefully...the grass isn't always greener.  If you earn a school opportunity, please seriously consider joining the ranks of our honorable AF leadership.  You won't regret saying yes, but you'll always have to live with the "what if" of saying no, and that deep regret may last a lifetime.

Young man: thank you for you service.

[pcola]

You won't regret saying yes, but you'll always have to live with the "what if" of saying no,

Hmm, I know several school grads/students that regret saying yes. Pretty sure one is on this board.

Personally, I said yes only because I didn't want to 7 day opt since I have 16 years TIS. I'm already wondering "what if" I'd said no, but not in the way you're implying. I'm wondering just how much QOL I'll be giving up over the next 4 years, how much seniority I'm losing, and if I'll end up regretting my decision to stay i.e. getting stop lossed just before retirement eligibility in 2020. I'll let you know once I get my post school assignment if I regret saying yes, but I'm not optimistic...

BTW, I would have absolutely declined IDE in-res if I could've done so without 7 day opting. And I seriously considered it anyway.

[11F...]

16 hours ago, General Chang said:

Looking way too deeply into my words.  This forum is full of washed-up pessimists telling young people, "Leadership sucks, the AF sucks, get out ASAP."  That message is one-sided and must be counterbalanced with a more sensible message from leadership.  We have incredible leaders in our AF at all levels, and to get a slot for in-res education is an honor, whether you accept or not.  I am disappointed whenever a selectee turns down these incredible opportunities for leadership advancement, but in no way does that denegrate their service, as you seem to think I am implying.

Listen carefully...the grass isn't always greener.  If you earn a school opportunity, please seriously consider joining the ranks of our honorable AF leadership.  You won't regret saying yes, but you'll always have to live with the "what if" of saying no, and that deep regret may last a lifetime.

Young man: thank you for you service.

Okay, the looking way to deeply may be a valid point.  If that's the case, I apologize.  

But I don't think it's honest to say this board is full of washed-up pessimists.   You seem to equate pessimism with the complaining and/or disagreeing with the party line.  The best leaders (by far) that I've ever had in my AF career were just like any one of these so-called "washed up pessimists" on this board.  Some of them were IDE select patches that chose to quit.  The best Sq/CC I ever had was this type of dude.   It was amazing how high the squadron morale was in spite of all the BS because he was such a non yes-man.  And for full disclosure, quite surprisingly, he was actually handsomely rewarded for constantly telling senior leadership that XX is total BS, and I'm not making my guys do this.  That said, he chose not to accept his reward and moved on to greener pastures instead of continuing up the senior leadership path.   It's been 6 years and he has absolutely no regrets (non-airline job).  

Rather than preach "must be counterbalanced with a more sensible message from leadership", what folks will respect infinitely more is just honesty.   Not a BS party line to counterbalance the sport bitching on this forum.