IFS (Initial Flight Screening) information

[Guest ilikefood]

Going to IFS this summer and starting UPT at Columbus this Nov. Does anybody know details about what IFS is like?

[Guest Dunce]

Flying sometimes takes place on Saturdays if the weather sucks and they are still averaging 1-2 washouts per class. They still give you every opportunity to succeed. The classes are still small (15-20 people) and will be that way for a while until everything is stood up. Pueblo aint that bad, its got some great restaurants there to include a texas roadhouse. The first 4 days are rough bc they are ground school straight through it all but after that its a bit better bc you are flying. Most of the time if you arent flying and you dont have anything else to do, you are released to do whatever it is you do.

[RangerMateo]

Just a random comment for y'all.

Just finished up at IFS. I have a lot of opinions on the program - mostly good, seriously...it's going to be a great program once it's running full speed and they get the kinks out. I keep getting the same question all the way from my SQ/CC down to the people I work with. Everyone wants to know if it's a 'weed out' program. Honestly, it doesn't seem to be. Yes, it's screening...yes there are people that will show up and in 4 weeks be talking to AFPC for a new assignment, but it's not their job to get rid of people. Of the three that our class lost, Doss went beyond expectations (As far as giving them extra flights, etc) to work with them. They were great people (Good friends too), but the flying thing just didn't work out this time around. Last I heard, they all are being reassigned to Strike Nav school and will have the option of coming back in the future to try again for the pilot gig.

Anyway, the biggest cause of washout in our class seemed to be developing the sight picture for the correct glideslope on landing. Nobody washed out for academics, our class was very strong on that aspect. As far as pacing, they'll move you along as fast as the schedule allows. Four of us took our final check a month to the day from when we showed up and could have left the next day, but they let us stay till the weekend for the solo party.

For now it's back in beautiful Altus...

[FLY6584]

Just got back from IFS so I figured I would share my experience with it. Overall I thought it was a great program. It was definitely a lot easier than I expected. To be honest I had a really good time and didn’t want to leave.

With that said if you don’t have any hours GET SOME IMMEDIATELY! I’m not trying to scare anyone because in the end about 8 out of 10 people who don’t have hours will still do just fine. The thing is that the only people that washed out were the zero time people that could not get the flying skills down. The sad part was that the people who washed out were the hardest working students there. No one really washes out because they don’t try hard or work hard enough. If you’ve gotten to this point then you probably have a little bit of work ethic and drive so all of the academics, standups, epq’s, etc. are very doable.

Now I know ya’ll are thinking if someone can’t figure out how to fly the Diamond in 10-15 hrs then they have absolutely no chance at UPT. Though I partly agree with that statement I also understand that many people have different learning curves and all of a sudden it will just click for them(we saw it happen to a few dudes on their 88’s). Then you also have to take into account that most of those that did wash out spent their first 4-5 rides with their heads stuck in an airsick bag (obviously not going to learn anything on those rides).

Now like I said I think the program is very fair and is a great learning experience. They really DO NOT want to wash people out. They do everything possible to help you succeed, but some people just can’t pick up the flying skills that quick.

My advice to the zero time guys is to get 10-15 hours in a Diamond/Cessna before you head out to IFS. Like I said more than likely you will have no problem with the program, but is it worth it to even have the slightest possibility of washing out? If it were me I’d spend the $1500-2000 just to guarantee that my dream of becoming an Air Force Pilot would not be ended at IFS.

As far as going to IFS with hours I’m here to tell you not to worry at all. Realize that you will still have to work hard, but the flying part of it will come to you very easily. I went to IFS with my Private/Instrument and about 175 hrs and had a pretty easy time with the program, but still learned A LOT while I was there and had an awesome time. Also understand that no matter how many hours you have you can still hook rides. I knew people with Commercial and CFI ratings that hooked a checkride. It’s not a big deal because once you get to your 88/89 they’ll understand it was probably just a stupid mistake and advance you on. That was my case on my final checkride. I had done very well throughout the program then on my last ride I came up high on an Area SFL and my check pilot hooked me for it. I then went for my 88 with a military IP and he basically laughed that I was even on an 88 and I passed my 88 no problem.

Anyways that’s my take on the whole IFS program. Be prepared to work, but also be prepared to have some fun.

[BADFNZ]

How does the DA-20 compare to a 172 in terms of flight characteristics? Also, is there any area in IFS that they focus on more than others? Short fields, stalls, navigation, TnGs, pattern, etc?

[FLY6584]

How does the DA-20 compare to a 172 in terms of flight characteristics? Also, is there any area in IFS that they focus on more than others? Short fields, stalls, navigation, TnGs, pattern, etc?

Actually to be honest the DA-20 is quite a bit different than a 172. The sight picture is obviously completely different and if you're tall it's probably going to take a little getting used to. Straight and level will probably feel like a slight nose low attitude. The biggest difference I saw was in the way the DA-20 forward slipped. It was nothing like a 172. If you let the nose drop at all on a forward slip you can very easily and quickly overspeed the flaps which happened to multiple studs there. Overall though I enjoyed flying it. Some said they felt it ballooned too much on landing, but I didn't think it was that much of a problem. I also really liked the stick in your right hand and throttle in your left. I got used to that very quickly.

As far what they focus on mostly... Academics are a joke. The test you take at the end of academics is word for word the same questions that are at the end of the chapters. If you don't get a 100 you're an idiot. The EPQ's are also pretty easy. Just make sure you study for them! Some people failed them, but no one was sent home for academics.

As far as the flying portion goes it's actually quite extensive. The maneuvers are very easy and they include stalls, slow flight, steep turns, SFL's, turns around a point, S-turns, etc. The landings you'll have to learn which gave people the most trouble are Normal, No-Flap, Forward Slip, and Pattern SFL landings. That was definitely the hardest part for most people. People just could not grasp the concept of energy management in the pattern. That is one area that the instructors are starting to focus more on and the Lt. Col there actually held some special help sessions trying to help people grasp the energy management concept.

I'd say the hardest part is probably the arrivals/departures and the radio calls. There were times where the workload depending on whether you're behind or ahead of the aircraft at the time felt similar to an instrument flight. Don't get me wrong it was still very doable, but I was thinking to myself that it's pretty incredible that the zero time guys were picking this stuff up so fast.

They are also very strict about the radio calls. That was probably my hardest thing to get used to. I was so used to the way I made radio calls that it took a little while to get rid of my old habits. My advice is know the Radio Calls in the Tiger Standards by heart. That will make the flight a lot easier on you.

Hope that helps.

Edited November 28, 2007 by FLY6584

[FLY6584]

I wouldn't worry about it. I hadn't flown for about 2 years before I got to IFS and it all came back very quickly. At least you're going to understand the concept of maintaining an airspeed and glidepath on your final approach. Like I said that is by far the hardest thing for people to grasp.

It definitely wouldn't hurt to get a few hours in a Diamond. You could probably get checked out in one in about an hour and then rent one for about $100 an hour.

As far as things to study prior to IFS this would be my list of priorities:

1. Boldface/Ops Limits (not just the red ones)

2. Tiger Standards (To include knowing the radio calls by heart)

3. Emergency Procedures Training Guide

4. Memorize all in-flight checklists

5. Learn how they want you to accomplish all of the maneuvers (these procedures can be found in the Tiger Standards)

That's pretty much all I would study before I got there. You'll have plenty of time to study once you're there. I'd say I studied hard for the first week and a half then it was pretty much smooth sailing from there.

Best of luck to you at OTS and IFS.

[brabus]

Probably the most beneficial would be just flying a DA-20 and getting use to how it lands...it is different enough from the 172. And as far as left handed...I'm left handed and flying right hand on stick (sts) is not a big deal. Don't you use your computer's mouse in your right hand? It's the same principle basically.

[usaf36031]

I'm going to IFS in April and don't have any flight hours. I've signed up at the local airport to fly their diamond and pay by the hour, but I'm wondering what type of stuff to do up there? I'm assuming that basic straight and level, pattern work and landings are the most important. Assuming I'll probably only get 10-15 hours before I go, what do you guys recommend I focus on?

(Also, I'd love to hear more about "that guy" if y'all have stories)

edit: in case It's not clear in my post, I will be with an instructor in the DA-20, obviously.

Edited November 30, 2007 by usaf36031

[brabus]

Work on basic flying...holding it level, turns, descents/climbs/level offs, pattern and landings, etc. Those are what you'll start with anyways and that's what will build a good base for something like IFS. As much as you can, get used to how radio comm goes. Not much you do at your local airport will emulate IFS, UPT, etc. but the more you can fly at a towered airport the better. The comm "overload" will actually make you better. Do all those things and see if you can get 15 hrs in and solo possibly. That would be a great boost going into IFS.

[FLY6584]

Work on basic flying...holding it level, turns, descents/climbs/level offs, pattern and landings, etc. Those are what you'll start with anyways and that's what will build a good base for something like IFS. As much as you can, get used to how radio comm goes. Not much you do at your local airport will emulate IFS, UPT, etc. but the more you can fly at a towered airport the better. The comm "overload" will actually make you better. Do all those things and see if you can get 15 hrs in and solo possibly. That would be a great boost going into IFS.

"2"

I couldn't agree more. Basically you can tell your instructor you just want to get the training you would need to solo. That pretty much covers everything you'll do at IFS minus a few things like some VOR work and flying an arrival/departure.

The only thing I wouldn't have them teach you is Short and Soft Field landings because you don't do any of that at IFS. They're a good thing to know how to do, but if you're on a tight budget I wouldn't worry about it. Heck you might even be able to solo before you even get to IFS which will do wonders for your confidence.

I might also consider getting a little bit of ground instruction from the instructor about topics such as Airspace, Cloud Clearance and Requirements, Weight and Balance, Basic Aerodynamics, and SYSTEMS!!! If you can get very familiar with the DA-20 and it's systems that will help you out a ton. I'm sure the mx dudes's at the FBO probably wouldn't mind if you popped in the hangar and checked out the Diamonds when they're taken apart for their 50/100hr inspections.

Heck you might even be able to find a friend of yours who has their PPL and could probably give you a good run down on all of those topics so you don't have to pay the instructor. If you're feeling really ambitious pick up a PPL book or read the AIM. It might be a little difficult to understand some things on your own so having an instructor/rated pilot would help.

I'm not saying you have nothing to worry about, but if you get 10-15 hours in a diamond you'll be in much better shape. Just be prepared to quickly ditch a bad habit/technique that was taught to you by your local FBO. At IFS they DEFINITELY want it done their way.

good luck

[Guest STLCFII]

DO NOT go pick something up... Here it is from the horses mouth (FAA)! I saw these at Borders for like $30 each and just had to laugh knowing they are free online! Enjoy......

Airplane Flying Handbook

https://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aircraf...plane_handbook/

AIM

https://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air...ons/ATpubs/AIM/

Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge

https://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviation/pilot_handbook/

Instrument Flying Handbook

https://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/aviatio...lying_handbook/

On a different note......

Does anyone know the latest on when ANG selectees will be required to attend IFS? Due to the fact that the operation is not fully operational yet and some people aren't going, what is the AF doing with the others? Will an ANG/AFRES/AD person who has their license already still be required to do some sort of screening (25 hrs) at a 141 school before UPT or will they fall under the old rule and get nothing?

[Guest Risp]

"Left hand on the throttle"? Does the student sit right seat in DOSS's DA-20's?

[Guest Flying_Bulldog]

"Left hand on the throttle"? Does the student sit right seat in DOSS's DA-20's?

Yep, you sit in the right seat. The diamonds that they have are reversed from the standard config so you get the practice flying with the stick in your right hand (sts) and the throttle in your left. It takes a little time getting used sitting in the right if you have some experience flying in the left seat, but once you get the hang of it, its really not an issue at all.

[Guest wildblue]

Any suggestions on what to bring? (Besides laptop, printer, SS Blues, PT gear, flightsuits, kneeboard, logbook, civvies, and a couple of DVDs)

Thanks!

Edited February 27, 2008 by wildblue

[pedaler]

Any suggestions on what to bring? (Besides laptop, printer, SS Blues, PT gear, flightsuits, kneeboard, logbook, civvies, and a couple of DVDs)

Thanks!

Better think about more than a couple DVDs. I wouldn't worry about a printer, there are plenty available. Maybe a cockpit poster for chair flying in your room. And a kite, sounds like that may be the only thing you fly for a while.

[Guest echofox]

The weather is crappy in the winter. Crappy weather = no fly. Went about 8 days without flying once. Other classes went more. There were issues in Nov/Dec with the aircraft and training had to be modified slightly as well. I think those issues are solved, although they may be a backup in flying now.

Bring DVDs. There aren't that many channels on the TV. I wished I had brought my camping gear. There is a lot of public land north of Canon City in the mountains that would be great to spend a Friday or Saturday night in. Bring whatever you think will keep you busy. I got so bored one week that I bought another truck.

As far as what to study, just know your Boldface/Ops limits before going. All the other stuff you will have time to learn. There will be periods where you will have a lot of free time (weather delays) and times where you will be studying and flying a lot(first few weeks). Once you get the hang of it all, it's pretty fun.

Edited February 28, 2008 by echofox

[spectre56]

Copy... thanks.

Anyone know where I can get a DA-20 cockpit poster in a short time frame?

Cockpit poster here. I just got this recently to familiarize myself with the layout...doesn't do a whole lot of good before you get there, though (I go in late April). Just know boldface/ops limits and we should be good.

[Guest wildblue]

How often do we wear blues? Do I need to bring long-sleeve blues?

Only info I see on the site is that we report in SS blues, but I seem to remember seeing a pic of a classroom full of students in blues. Thanks.

[Guest Flyin' AF Hawaiian]

How often do we wear blues? Do I need to bring long-sleeve blues?

Only info I see on the site is that we report in SS blues, but I seem to remember seeing a pic of a classroom full of students in blues. Thanks.

You typically wear blues the first couple days. Usually depends on how fast your flight passes the Ops Limits/Boldface. I would bring a lightweight jacket in case you need to go outside in blues, but that's about it.

[Guest wildblue]

Dumb question, but do we leave Pueblo the day we graduate or the next day?

Thanks.

[Guest Ice9876]

You leave the day after you pass your final checkride. It could be 2 weeks early or a week late or so. Don't make any definite plans.

[dirkdigler9]

I would like to log some hours before going to IFS. Can anyone recommend an aircraft that is similar to the DA-20 and typically at civilian flight schools?

[Guest wildblue]

I would like to log some hours before going to IFS. Can anyone recommend an aircraft that is similar to the DA-20 and typically at civilian flight schools?

Dude, just go grab a few hours in whatever Cessna they have available at your local airport. It could be a good investment, but from what I understand you shouldn't worry about dropping too much money on it.

Or save the money and just learn some basic ground school. (Weather and navigation) Might be a more effective use of your time.

Just my $.02.

Edited March 4, 2008 by wildblue

[pedaler]

from what I understand you shouldn't worry about dropping too much money on it.

Not true. This is supposed to be a zero hour program, but its not. You will be behind the power curve if you have 0 hours. Will you pass the program with no prior time, sure, many have done it. Would 10 hours boost your confidence and help you learn more while your there, you bet. Do yourself a favor get at least 10 hours or, at minimum, land a plane. Don't take my word for it. Read the other IFS threads and Riddller's Blog (the gold standard in IFS gouge, thanks man!).

Edited March 4, 2008 by pedaler