IFS (Initial Flight Screening) information

[HiFlyer]

So I was reading up on this forum and I'm pretty sure I understand the glasses policy at IFS but wanted to make sure.

Since doss is an FAA run program that is contracted out through the military it is still held to FAA standards medically wise. So can we bring our own personal glasses to IFS or even contacts at that matter that we use while flying civilian (i.e. the ones I wore getting my PPL a few years ago) and not the ones the Air Force has us issued?

Need to have Smoky or a Doss person confirm this. While it is certainly OK to abide by FAA standards, you are assigned to a military unit (1st FTS, I believe) and Af uniform/dress standards must be adhered to, so the glasses must meet AF standards.

Edited February 26, 2012 by HiFlyer

[WeagleWeagle]

https://jasongwings.b...ney-begins.html

A decent blog on IFS, more recent than Riddller's

Edit: and yes the writer is a total douchenozzle, but if you filter that out it's a good play-by-play

Edited February 27, 2012 by WeagleWeagle

[Hawker]

Need to have Smoky or a Doss person confirm this. While it is certainly OK to abide by FAA standards, you are assigned to a military unit (1st FTS, I believe) and Af uniform/dress standards must be adhered to, so the glasses must meet AF standards.

Thanks for the info guys, so to make sure I'm understanding this correctly as long as they meet AF standards as far as dress and apperance is concerned (AFI 36-2903) it's OK to wear personal glasses or contacts at IFS and not those "BCGs"? Just need to make sure the glasses/contacts are conservative in nature.

[LookieRookie]

Thanks for the info guys, so to make sure I'm understanding this correctly as long as they meet AF standards as far as dress and apperance is concerned (AFI 36-2903) it's OK to wear personal glasses or contacts at IFS and not those "BCGs"? Just need to make sure the glasses/contacts are conservative in nature.

Everyone in my class just wore their normal glasses. No one had a problem with it.

Edited February 28, 2012 by LookieRookie

[Smokey]

Need to have Smoky or a Doss person confirm this. While it is certainly OK to abide by FAA standards, you are assigned to a military unit (1st FTS, I believe) and Af uniform/dress standards must be adhered to, so the glasses must meet AF standards.

Yes, and yes. Any "corrective lense" requirement on the FAA medical has to be satisfied to the requirements of the FAR. Uniform standards also have to be maintained at the same time for USAF requirements.

Thanks for the info guys, so to make sure I'm understanding this correctly as long as they meet AF standards as far as dress and apperance is concerned (AFI 36-2903) it's OK to wear personal glasses or contacts at IFS and not those "BCGs"? Just need to make sure the glasses/contacts are conservative in nature.

Correct on all.

Smokey

[Smokey]

General Post for all IFS incoming.

The publications posted on the USAF IFS link under the UPT link has outdated information. Especially for CSO's and RPA's but also for Pilot candidates.

The Boldface and Ops Limits are good. The Academic information is also good. EP Training Guide good as well. After that, syllabus, playbooks, etc., are all way out of date and contain incorrect information. Do not spend much time studying them because you are learning incorrect information.

I have asked the site to remove the outdated items (and the information is proprietary so I will not provide current publications) but they have yet to do it. As with any information not received directly from the entity who controls it, use caution for it's accuracy.

"Live by the gouge.....Die by the gouge."

Smokey

Edited March 1, 2012 by Smokey

[blake]

Read the glasses comments, but still had a question. I require glasses as far as the air force flight physical is concerned. So I will newd them for UPT. But for my FAA physical, I do not require glasses. I don't currently have a set of glasses, will I be required to get a set before going to IFS?

[HiFlyer]

Read the glasses comments, but still had a question. I require glasses as far as the air force flight physical is concerned. So I will newd them for UPT. But for my FAA physical, I do not require glasses. I don't currently have a set of glasses, will I be required to get a set before going to IFS?

Not sure what the IFS rule will be, but if the AF flight physical says you need them, they'll be issued to you pretty soon after you get to your UPT base, and will probably have them by the time you get to IFS (unless you go pretty quickly) so it shouldn't be a problem. My son was in that situation and I believe he kept his glasses with him at IFS...in his suitcase, in his room!

[blake]

IFS is too soon for them to even come in. The guy at Optometry said if I had walked in my first day on base they still wouldn't have came in. No one even mentioned eye wear during inprocessing. I just took it upon myself to go.

[Smokey]

Read the glasses comments, but still had a question. I require glasses as far as the air force flight physical is concerned. So I will newd them for UPT. But for my FAA physical, I do not require glasses. I don't currently have a set of glasses, will I be required to get a set before going to IFS?

Your questions go into two areas here. As far as IFS is concerned, you'll need whatever the FAA physical/student certificate lists as restrictions such as corrective lenses. If there is no such statement, I can't say you should wear your glasses.

You'll also get a medical screening and a quasi AF1042 from the on site IDMT.

Now we come down to the real issue. The FAA vision check is a joke relative to an AF physical to qualify for UPT. If the AF physical identified something vision wise that was still within regs but needed lenses, I'd recommend going that route and wear them.

My 2 cents,

Smokey

Edited June 4, 2012 by Smokey

[scudrunner12]

Does anyone know who the IFS waiver authority is? (e.g. who retains prior issued IFS waivers) Long story, short. I was issued a waiver while at the 562d; the 562d now longer exists.

Looking to you Smokey...

[Archa3opt3ryx]

A Doss IP can't and shouldn't update a BFR for those with an FAA ticket or solo endorse a log book in any way.

Hey Smokey, quick question: I have my PPL, but my BFR has expired. Can I still log the time I get in the DA20, either dual or solo or both? I just looked up the FAA reg on flight reviews (61.56) and it basically says "no pilot may operate an aircraft without a flight review", but it says nothing about logging time. I assume that part of the reg is essentially waived for people with PPLs, since we're sorta considered students again, but since I'm rated catagory and class, I should still be able to log both dual and solo time, right?

[Smokey]

Does anyone know who the IFS waiver authority is? (e.g. who retains prior issued IFS waivers) Long story, short. I was issued a waiver while at the 562d; the 562d now longer exists.

Looking to you Smokey...

You'll have to be a bit more specific, while still being general, about the waiver in question. In other words, what does it pertain to? I can do some investigative work for you, but without some more information, I don't know where to begin.

Smokey

Hey Smokey, quick question: I have my PPL, but my BFR has expired. Can I still log the time I get in the DA20, either dual or solo or both? I just looked up the FAA reg on flight reviews (61.56) and it basically says "no pilot may operate an aircraft without a flight review", but it says nothing about logging time. I assume that part of the reg is essentially waived for people with PPLs, since we're sorta considered students again, but since I'm rated catagory and class, I should still be able to log both dual and solo time, right?

The quick and dirty.....

BFR expired is no problem. With a PPL, you can still log both PIC and DUAL received for your FAA logbook.

As for solo issue, we cover all those bases as well for your issue. We have a LOA with the Denver FSDO for these situations. A special endorsement will be attached to your training jacket, not into your log book, that will cover you to operate the DOSS aircraft in solo operations under the confines of the DOSS IFS operation only.

In other words, you'll be legal in the eyes of the FAA for what you do here only under the training syllabus you are enrolled in. It will not carry over in any other way to exercising your FAA certificate. And, NO, no IFS instructor will sign off your BFR under any circumstances. The BFR requirements are not satisfied by the training we provide you here. This training is meant to run you full throttle for 3 weeks and prepare you for UPT....

Cheers,

Smokey

Edited July 19, 2012 by Smokey

[Smokey]

An all call on the glasses question posted not too long ago.

From an FAA standpoint, we have always been legal to fly you in the eyes of the FAA if no restriction was placed on the medical despite any contrary statement in your AF medical.

As with all things, there is a reason for the change in 1st FTS policy on the matter and kind of goes inline with one of the posts I made.

Long story short, a student pilot had issues with landings. He was one who did not need glasses in the eyes of the FAA but did in the eyes of the AF. After washing out, he was reinstated because of that fact. He then, after flying with corrective lenses, still washed out.....but you get the point.

Bottom line, if any medical form indicates corrective lenses are required, you WILL have them or not be allowed to enter training. Do whatever you have to do to push the optical folks on base to get them before you show up. Otherwise, you face getting sent home.

Spread the word. I think the 1st has done so, but you know how that goes.

Smokey

You can log the time. You can even log PIC time while you're actually flying. 61.56 doesn't say you can't operate an aircraft without a BFR. It says you can't act as pilot in command of an aircraft without a BFR, and you won't be acting as PIC while you're with a CFI.

See the above reply regarding the solo issue.

Smokey

[Smokey]

And another recent 1st FTS policy regarding the FAA physical/student certificate, you must have it before you fly. In the past, we would fly you because we could and find a break to get the student to the AME prior to solo. That is now no longer allowed. A student about half way through training and doing fine went to get the student certificate/medical and the Doc found an issue that required a waiver....that doesn't happen over night. Student removed from training.

You won't be allowed to fly without a valid FAA medical cert. Period.

Pass the word and do yourself a favor. Come to IFS with all the stuff done prior to arriving. Glasses, student medical, etc.

Smokey

[Kenny Powers]

And another recent 1st FTS policy regarding the FAA physical/student certificate, you must have it before you fly. In the past, we would fly you because we could and find a break to get the student to the AME prior to solo. That is now no longer allowed. A student about half way through training and doing fine went to get the student certificate/medical and the Doc found an issue that required a waiver....that doesn't happen over night. Student removed from training.

You won't be allowed to fly without a valid FAA medical cert. Period.

Pass the word and do yourself a favor. Come to IFS with all the stuff done prior to arriving. Glasses, student medical, etc.

Smokey

Not sure if this has always been the case, but they are issuing third class FAA's at Wright Patt. now in conjunction with your FC-1/MFS if the pilot canidate doesn't currently have one. They handed them out to the dudes who didn't have one once they completed their physicals.

Edited July 20, 2012 by Kenny Powers

[HeyWatchThis]

Anybody hear about the new reg stating that if you already have your PPL you won't be going to IFS? That's the rumor being circulated in the Guard/Reserve section in the June 2012 board thread.......

Smokey care to give us the most current info on this?

[Kenny Powers]

I posted this in the other thread as well, but myself and plenty of other guard guys I know that all have a minimum of a PPL have IFS dates for FY13, some recently issued within the last week.

[CampbellsChunkySoupra]

To my knowledge, everyone will attend IFS. Plenty of Reserve pilots/cso here with me at OTS right now ALL with IFS dates. Some even with 50-2000 hours.

[Smokey]

Anybody hear about the new reg stating that if you already have your PPL you won't be going to IFS? That's the rumor being circulated in the Guard/Reserve section in the June 2012 board thread.......

Smokey care to give us the most current info on this?

Sorry, been at Sturgis. Anyway, exceptions to IFS went away except for a few distinct instances which I won't go into. In any event, the AF values the training received at IFS to such a degree that all exceptions for private licenses was rescinded about 3 years ago. I doubt it will change.

Smokey

[Smokey]

The PPL or higher exception came back into the lime light about 6 months ago. The AF is having budget issues just like the rest of us. All the numbers have been crunched and a final decision has been made as of this morning. Despite the fact PPL's and higher have washed out of IFS, the numbers are pretty low. The exception for those with a PPL or higher will be reinstated for FY13 from what I was told this morning. That wil be about a 10-12% reduction in IFS students for the FY based on stats we keep. In one way, the IFS guys/gals will have a leg up on their classmates that didn't attend once hitting UPT phase 2.

AF really likes the IFS product but had to give somewhere. Interestingly enough, the AF is asking what we can do to expand the pilot syllabus to offer some additional training beyond the current syllabus. Specifically basic formation and instrument familiarization believe it or not. More to come on that when/if it occurs.

I didn't mention CSO's or RPA's because I didn't get an answer to that question. I don't know if the exception will be applied to those categories at this time. We'll all have to wait and read it in print in the near future.

Smokey

[ViperDriver114]

Ok,

So I got hired by a Viper Unit for FY13 (my Officer/UPT packet should be on its way to DC next week after I swear in on the 16th), I already am Commercial Multi/Instrument rated. So I assume this means I can expect to not get an IFS date from the Bureau?

My burning question is, Does this mean in Phase 2 of UPT (beginning of T-6's) will they teach the "military" only type things they teach at IFS? Like military traffic patterns and radio calls etc.?

I could be completely wrong, they may already teach that stuff at UPT and not at IFS, not sure, but the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask right?

[Royal]

Ok,

So I got hired by a Viper Unit for FY13 (my Officer/UPT packet should be on its way to DC next week after I swear in on the 16th), I already am Commercial Multi/Instrument rated. So I assume this means I can expect to not get an IFS date from the Bureau?

My burning question is, Does this mean in Phase 2 of UPT (beginning of T-6's) will they teach the "military" only type things they teach at IFS? Like military traffic patterns and radio calls etc.?

I could be completely wrong, they may already teach that stuff at UPT and not at IFS, not sure, but the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask right?

Dude, you'll be fine; don't worry about it. You're not going to be missing some piece to the puzzle that is only found at IFS. That's why it's called "Flight Screening" not "Initial Flight Instruction From Which Your Entire Military Aviation Career Will Be Predicated Upon." They'll teach you what you need at UPT. Enjoy the time off until then.

[Smokey]

Ok,

So I got hired by a Viper Unit for FY13 (my Officer/UPT packet should be on its way to DC next week after I swear in on the 16th), I already am Commercial Multi/Instrument rated. So I assume this means I can expect to not get an IFS date from the Bureau?

My burning question is, Does this mean in Phase 2 of UPT (beginning of T-6's) will they teach the "military" only type things they teach at IFS? Like military traffic patterns and radio calls etc.?

I could be completely wrong, they may already teach that stuff at UPT and not at IFS, not sure, but the only stupid question is the one that you don't ask right?

More information from my last as we are about ready to start 13-XX classes. It was stated that the PPL exception will actually begin for any classes that START after 1 Oct. Again, this is all coming AFPC and 12th FTW folks (now that 19AF is gone). Anyway, that's the latest as of today......

I'm not in the policy making department on such issues so don't shoot the messenger.

Yeah, you'll walk into the flight line a little less prepared for the typical experience but will probably catch on fine I'm sure. An IFS grad will now how to handle stand-up and EP's, GTIMS, familiarity with the concept of the syllabus, standard mission briefings and the like. The UPT squadrons will have to suck it up and realize they will be getting a larger percentage of those that didn't get familiar with the typical UPT environment and adapt. Not a reflection on you. Just a bit more of fire hose affect the first few weeks on the line.

[Buzzkillington]

Not sure why I am asking this, but would there be any reason whatsoever to hold off on finishing my PPL so I can go to IFS?