IFS (Initial Flight Screening) information

[guineapigfury]

Not sure why I am asking this, but would there be any reason whatsoever to hold off on finishing my PPL so I can go to IFS?

No. IFS exists to benefit the Air Force, not you. Get your PPL.

[SemperSicEm]

How can the AF be certain I would finish my PPL in time before my IFS date? Someone has to know what this reg includes, i.e. APTs that have their PPL BEFORE 1 Oct are exempt, those who get it after are not and must attend IFS? Also, shelling out 5 grand as a brand new LT coming out of a stupidly expensive university isn't going to be the easiest thing for me to do in the next six months, not impossible...just not ideal either. Don't get me wrong, becoming a pilot is my #1 priority and I would love nothing more than to spend every weekend on causal status flying my happy little butt off at a civilian school, but letting the AF pay for it (and if I can hack it) has been my plan of action all along especially because this news of holding a PPL didn't come into the picture for me until a day or so ago. Letting all these APTs run out and get PPLs might save the AF some $ most definitely, but it should not be the norm and I think there are still benefits to be introduced to military flying even if it is in the DA-20. I've had many friends that struggled through IFS and somehow made it happen and now are in fighter airframes and some made it through and still DOR out of UPT. I know I want to fly and I know I can do it, but don't feel like I need to run away from Doss and stay on casual until my UPT date by obtaining a PPL. I honestly hate hearing so many APTs talking about how much IFS sucks, (maybe mostly from the CSO peers I know) but seriously...just like Smokey said, there are WAY worse places to be in life. Spending a month in Colorado earning my pay and learning to actually fly the way the AF wants me to is nothing in the grand scheme of things to start the opportunity of a lifetime to earn wings.

[Fuzz]

How can the AF be certain I would finish my PPL in time before my IFS date? Someone has to know what this reg includes, i.e. APTs that have their PPL BEFORE 1 Oct are exempt, those who get it after are not and must attend IFS?

You should think this through better, when you get your RIP for IFS if you don't have your PPL you go to Doss.

Also, shelling out 5 grand as a brand new LT coming out of a stupidly expensive university isn't going to be the easiest thing for me to do in the next six months, not impossible...just not ideal either. Don't get me wrong, becoming a pilot is my #1 priority and I would love nothing more than to spend every weekend on causal status flying my happy little butt off at a civilian school, but letting the AF pay for it (and if I can hack it) has been my plan of action all along especially because this news of holding a PPL didn't come into the picture for me until a day or so ago.

See the post above yours to answer this question, 4 weeks at a washout course or free pass on one hurdle of the UPT process.

Letting all these APTs run out and get PPLs might save the AF some $ most definitely, but it should not be the norm and I think there are still benefits to be introduced to military flying even if it is in the DA-20. I've had many friends that struggled through IFS and somehow made it happen and now are in fighter airframes and some made it through and still DOR out of UPT.

People who have more experience and get paid more to make those decisions.

I know I want to fly and I know I can do it, but don't feel like I need to run away from Doss and stay on casual until my UPT date by obtaining a PPL. I honestly hate hearing so many APTs talking about how much IFS sucks, (maybe mostly from the CSO peers I know) but seriously...just like Smokey said, there are WAY worse places to be in life. Spending a month in Colorado earning my pay and learning to actually fly the way the AF wants me to is nothing in the grand scheme of things to start the opportunity of a lifetime to earn wings.

Again if you can bypass IFS and go straight to UPT the process to get eliminated from UPT is more extensive than IFS. You haven't been to IFS so stop talking about how much it does or doesn't suck; I'll tell you it sucks, its stressful, and you most likely won't enjoy your time there (except maybe getting plastered on the weekend). As mentioned before its Initial Flight Screening not training, the small bit of Air Force flying which from what I remember what just a simplified version Air Force traffic pattern doesn't exactly give you a head start.

IFS has its merits for the Air Force not exactly for you as the student.

[ViperDriver114]

This whole supposed new IFS reg is confusing me because I am a Commercial Multi-Engine rated pilot and I am still going to IFS (March), so what is the deal? Are other licensed pilots getting out of IFS?

SemperSickEm, You should absolutely get your PPL. Any flying you can do is good. You will learn that in reality, flying is flying, an airplane is an airplane, so any time is good time. I have not been to IFS yet, but anything you can learn will make IFS that much easier. Don't just go in saying, "well if I get it, then ok, if I dont, then whatever" Having been through my fair share of checkrides and flight training (civilian)...I can tell you that it is ALWAYS better to be over prepared than under prepared. You will hate yourself if you washout of IFS and all you can think is "wow, if only I had more practice at those steep turns (or whatever). A couple grand is not worth your potential career.

On that note, it should not cost you 5K to get your PPL. Just fly a cessna 150 or something similar, small, cheap and easy to fly. If you study and progress, it should only take 2 or 3K to have the card in your wallet.

[SemperSicEm]

You should think this through better, when you get your RIP for IFS if you don't have your PPL you go to Doss.

Again if you can bypass IFS and go straight to UPT the process to get eliminated from UPT is more extensive than IFS. You haven't been to IFS so stop talking about how much it does or doesn't suck; I'll tell you it sucks, its stressful, and you most likely won't enjoy your time there (except maybe getting plastered on the weekend). As mentioned before its Initial Flight Screening not training, the small bit of Air Force flying which from what I remember what just a simplified version Air Force traffic pattern doesn't exactly give you a head start.

IFS has its merits for the Air Force not exactly for you as the student.

My point was, would they even let me go get my PPL before getting an RIP for IFS? If I don't have one, then yes I still have to go to Doss. I kind of thought that AFPC or whoever assigns IFS/UPT dates knows if you have your PPL from the rated boards so why would they assign them a date then? Seems like this new reg isn't tracking yet unless something changes when they show up for casual or a training weekend if they are guard/reserve and get told 'hey no IFS for you anymore!'

Also, yeah it probably does suck, no doubt. I've been told. With that attitude though....I'm not sure how a pilot candidate will make it through UPT or any formal USAF training program for that matter. There are worse things ahead than Pueblo and worse things out there to endure in the military and I happen to be close to people that have endured worse.

ShackIt--the going cost for my area based on the flight schools I have checked is over 5K per aircraft rental, instruction, and ground school. That's in a Diamond DA-20 or similar.

Edited September 25, 2012 by SemperSicEm

[SemperSicEm]

I was told today, if you have your PPL and close to 100 hours you can work an exemption from attending IFS. If you have no rating (no PPL at all) you cannot be considered even if you get one. You're not supposed to obtain any higher ratings either. You can still fly as much as you want. IFS it is for me!

[Kenny Powers]

I was told today, if you have your PPL and close to 100 hours you can work an exemption from attending IFS. If you have no rating (no PPL at all) you cannot be considered even if you get one. You're not supposed to obtain any higher ratings either. You can still fly as much as you want. IFS it is for me!

Might be correct for the exemption - I know a few guard guys with PPL's that are still on for starting IFS this month.

Not sure why they would care if you obtain any higher ratings.

[Fuzz]

If you have no rating (no PPL at all) you cannot be considered even if you get one. You're not supposed to obtain any higher ratings either. You can still fly as much as you want. IFS it is for me!

From what I remember this applies only to those currently in UPT not casual LTs.

[jbrent4]

so lets say this PPL exemption is true, would you have to request the exemption once you got to your UPT base or would they just not schedule training dates for you and then you would have to request to go. I don't know if I want to go or not but luckily I have some time to make that decision

[Bucket]

At Vance, our casual LT flight commander requests the waivers... If you have your PPL, you'd talk to her and she requests/fills out paperwork. Last I heard, it takes a week or two to go through.

I had a good time at IFS; I was the last class to go through without the waiver. It was the first time I'd ever gotten to fly multiple days in a row and it wasn't all that stressful. Sure, it probably won't help a TON with UPT, but it's a low to mild stress environment with pretty good food and you get some time in a neat airplane. If you've never flown the "military" way before, it might give you a really basic understanding of the pattern, departures, arrivals, and checklist usage (challenge/response, callout items). It's also a good way to learn to do things the way you're told and not how you were taught in the past. Overall, a solid program, fun flying, you'll make money, and the food is good. If you're casual and just sitting around, it might be a good deal to go. If you're married or flying on the weekends, you probably don't wanna go. If you haven't flown in a long time, you might wanna go just to knock the rust off. Just my .02

Edited October 21, 2012 by Bucket

[brewskis]

If you don't go to IFS, you're doing yourself a disservice. I had a few hundred hours on the civilian side, but it was a good indoc into flying for a purpose (not just flying to go flying). It was also challenging, but in a different way that guys with zero time go through it. Although some of the things you do there you forget or don't get wholly proficient at (flying, stand-up, etc), you'll learn how to study, chairfly and work together to attain a common individual goal in the same manner that is expected of you and your class during Phase II. I would have struggled with some of those things in Phase II if I hadn't attended IFS.

On top of that, I built some pretty good friendships with the same guys I was going to class up with in UPT.

It sucked at times, but all things being equal, I'd do it over again for those reasons alone.

[eb287]

Anyone have any insight into whether active duty UFT candidates with PPL or higher are still getting waived on the IFS prerequisite? I have not seen a new version of 2205v3 yet and wasn't sure if it was still in the approval/routing process or if someone along the line had changed their mind about it. Would UPT, CSO, and RPA all be waived with PPL, or just UPT and CSO?

[TechForce]

Anyone have any insight into whether active duty UFT candidates with PPL or higher are still getting waived on the IFS prerequisite?

Yes. A few here have been waived with PPL or close to it with around 70+ hours. They applied for it in early November and and found out mid-late Dec for dates in Spring.

[stratpilot]

Does anyone think skipping IFS would be a good idea? It sounds like getting the waiver is something you have to apply for, would it be beneficial to not apply for it and go even if I have a PPL with over 70 hours, or should I skip it? I always liked the idea of getting used to the military way of flying in a plane I am already comfortable in.

[MSE]

I am not even getting the option to go to IFS. I have OTS July-Sept. then I start UPT in Oct. No waiver, they just did NOT schedule it. I have a PPL with just over 60 hours.

[hispeed7721]

Does anyone think skipping IFS would be a good idea? It sounds like getting the waiver is something you have to apply for, would it be beneficial to not apply for it and go even if I have a PPL with over 70 hours, or should I skip it? I always liked the idea of getting used to the military way of flying in a plane I am already comfortable in.

My take on it is to go. I did it once around for nav and (hopefully) will be doing it a second time for pilot.

If you are committed to it, you won't get eliminated. The people that get eliminated are the ones that decide they don't want to be there or think its a guarantee to pass (from what I saw when I was there).

Personally if I get asked if I want to skip it the second time around I'll be declining that offer.

Edited January 9, 2013 by hispeed7721

[guineapigfury]

If you'd read the thread you'd see a whole bunch of dudes say "skip it!" It's an ELIMINATION ROUND. Wanna chance it?

I still don't understand the guys who want to go. You're trying to win the SuperBowl, take the 1st round bye.

[Fuzz]

If you are committed to it, you won't get eliminated. The people that get eliminated are the ones that decide they don't want to be there or think its a guarantee to pass (from what I saw when I was there).

So far from the truth, I know guys who tried hard than most of their classmates combined, studying, chairflying ect. but didn't make it through. It is so much harder to get eliminate from UPT, mainly because they are trying to train you not eliminate you.

[hispeed7721]

So far from the truth, I know guys who tried hard than most of their classmates combined, studying, chairflying ect. but didn't make it through.

That's why I said "from what I saw when I was there"

I'm sure there are cases when guys who worked hard didn't make it...but I think it's safe to say the vast majority of people who work their butts off do just fine

Edited January 9, 2013 by hispeed7721

[Royal]

Requesting to go to IFS is like requesting to go to MEPS again; you know, just to make sure they didn't miss anything the first time around.

[hispeed7721]

Right or wrong, I figure that any time you're given the opportunity to fly, is good time.

I understand its an "elimination" program and so ppl want to avoid it; I just don't personally see a reason to turn down free flight time.

But that's me, and I certainly wouldn't think badly of someone for choosing to skip it.

[ThreeHoler]

Right or wrong, I figure that any time you're given the opportunity to fly, is good time.

I understand its an "elimination" program and so ppl want to avoid it; I just don't personally see a reason to turn down free flight time.

But that's me, and I certainly wouldn't think badly of someone for choosing to skip it.

Skip it if you can. Don't be a dumbass.

[guineapigfury]

Right or wrong, I figure that any time you're given the opportunity to fly, is good time.

I understand its an "elimination" program and so ppl want to avoid it; I just don't personally see a reason to turn down free flight time.

But that's me, and I certainly wouldn't think badly of someone for choosing to skip it.

You're risking your entire Air Force career for 20 free flight hours. Your post is essentially a commercial for Bad Idea Jeans.

[Fuzz]

I spoke with someone that told me if I get a pilot slot to submit the form exempting me from IFS to my cadre ASAP (ROTC). But I've read on here to submit it at my UPT base. What's the correct way to go?

You won't go to IFS till you get to your UPT base, doubtful your Det. can do anything since the RIPs and orders are handled by your student squadron at the base. Doesn't hurt to ask your cadre but don't be surprised if you get a "what???" look.

[Royal]

That's why I said "from what I saw when I was there"

I'm sure there are cases when guys who worked hard didn't make it...but I think it's safe to say the vast majority of people who work their butts off do just fine

You're going make up for the 3 hours of 7 horsepower, single engine recip time you'd get at IFS once you get to the FTU...in like half of a sortie.