Postponing Postmission Crew Rest?

[Herk Driver]

Do entire heavy squadrons deploy or is it normally a group of guys (like 30%)? I can see PMCR as a very important when you've got split operations with some people/aircraft deployed AND ongoing local flying operations.

For the beginning of OIF, entire squadrons/groups/wings of mobility aircraft were deployed. Since the summer of 2003, (end of major USAF combat ops??), it depends on where you are stationed. Little Rock had 30-40% of each squadron deployed at any given time. Pope, IIRC, was deploying one squadron at a time (Pope dudes feel free to jump in and correct). Not sure about Dyess.

In today's world of desert rote after desert rote, PMCR is a little different. But, back in the steady state world of pre-9/11 PMCR was very important on a crew by crew basis. You could easily burn people out with some max crew duty day TDYs back to back. That all depends on where you were stationed though (and how many times they, umm... "broke" on that TDY).

[Guest Hydro130]

Do entire heavy squadrons deploy or is it normally a group of guys (like 30%)? I can see PMCR as a very important when you've got split operations with some people/aircraft deployed AND ongoing local flying operations.

FWIW, I think it is a good thing to give people a break whenever you can. It is probably good leadership to force people to take those breaks.

All good points by Herk Driver. I *think* what I'm about to say is generally true throughout the Herk world, and maybe even C-17s (not sure). With the Desert being a significant standing obligation, it seems that AMC was trying to get all squadrons/groups/wings to maintain a constant 25-33% (I'm just guesstimating those numbers, it depends on the unit) presence there, swapping iron and crews as required. This allows a normal flagpole training program to not suffer greatly at any one stretch (like they used to when the entire squadron would pack up and hit the road), and allows the squadron to support other real-world airlift support missions. It's a bigger headache from a scheduling & talent-juggling perspective, but it's worth it.

What Herk Driver mentioned about guys getting bowled over with back-to-back mishes is true. Especially for instructors - if you're the only Gitmo-qualled IP (stupid, but it happens!) or something like that, you can be a very busy mo-fo at some stretches. It kicks your ass; I know I'm not telling you anything new with that.

This is still muddied a lot with the J entering the fleet, BRAC re-aligments, etc, etc. But - I think - what I described is the overall vision... It's a better system than the "launch our fleet" type of attack we did before. That just lead to everyone getting non-current for stuff while deployed, then spending a lop-sided amount of time getting everyone spun back up upon return. Upgrades are what really paid the price with that yo-yo effect, and that hurt everything over time.

Cheers, Hydro

EDIT: What you said about the leadership forcing folks to take the time is true, I agree. The leadership wants its rock-stars rested & ready for the next mish. The best CCs and DOs I worked for always kicked me out when I would come in too early during PMCR or on local leave. They were right.

And speaking of Gitmo, did anyone catch last week's "Criminal Minds"? After their plane goes overkill with an oh-so dramatic 60/2 on the approach, what's-his-name calmly explains "They call that the 'Gitmo Twist'" Huh? News to me. F'ing Hollywood goof-balls. Makes me laugh.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Hydro130

[HerkDerka]

Do entire heavy squadrons deploy or is it normally a group of guys (like 30%)? I can see PMCR as a very important when you've got split operations with some people/aircraft deployed AND ongoing local flying operations.

It depends on the tasking.

For the beginning of OIF, entire squadrons/groups/wings of mobility aircraft were deployed. Since the summer of 2003, (end of major USAF combat ops??), it depends on where you are stationed. Little Rock had 30-40% of each squadron deployed at any given time. Pope, IIRC, was deploying one squadron at a time (Pope dudes feel free to jump in and correct). Not sure about Dyess.

Correct on Pope (the BRAC changed it), same for Dyess.

HD

[Mitch Weaver]

What cracks me up is you too get PMCR for "deploying" to guam, DG, etc. $hit.. I would have you come in on a couple weekends to make up for your good deal.

Nah, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have anyone come in on a weekend.

Stop trying to cash your "my shit smells worse than your shit" checks on this board.

[Chicken]

Nah, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have anyone come in on a weekend.

Stop trying to cash your "my shit smells worse than your shit" checks on this board.

Welcome to a week ago. Glad you could join us.

I asked a simple question, and when I get responses like "Yeah...I don't wanna go to work on Monday...anyone know a reg for that? Can I get a waiver?" well that's just . I am lazy because I want 4 fuc*ing days to put my shit back in order after a deployment? I guarantee you that this same guy kicks and screams for his PMCR after his 3 weeks in Thailand. Let me pay my bills, mow my lawn, hump my wife and open my mail and I will be more than happy to go into work the next day.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Chicken

[Guest Hydro130]

I am lazy because I want 4 fuc*ing days to put my shit back in order after a deployment? I guarantee you that this same guy kicks and screams for his PMCR after his 3 weeks in Thailand.

You just don't know when to quit, do you? Have fun digging that hole; it's coming along nicely.

Cheers, Hydro

[Guest Bender]

Look, man...

My wife and I both deploy so the PMCR helps us to take care of all the shit that's been sitting for 120 days. Not like I just don't want to show up for work...

That is exactly the kind of thing PMCR is for...

...but the fact that I am on non local leave just doesn't let me get that shit done.

That is not the problem of the person who grants you the PMCR. You are on non-local leave, doing god knows what...doesn't matter, you're not flying.

So I rather use my postmission after I come back from leave.

You need to use local leave (like you could have done anyways, with or without non-local leave.)

Guys would stop in europe or wherever and stay there a couple weeks, and then start PMCR after the fact.

The guys have said they've seen it done, so if you want to ask for it...go ahead. I know that it's almost impossible to plan leave coming right off a deployment, most if not all is chewed up by delays...

Next time, put your leave in while your on PMCR (of course assuming the manning works out.) You take non-local leave when you have shit to take care of at home...well, shit doesn't get taken care of at home. Surely you saw that coming.

I would have you come in on a couple weekends to make up for your good deal.

I usually work at least part of the weekend from home anyways, so whatever...I'd come in; no biggy.

I am lazy because I want 4 fuc*ing days to put my shit back in order after a deployment? I guarantee you that this same guy kicks and screams for his PMCR after his 3 weeks in Thailand.

No, that doesn't make you lazy. However, I think you're still trying to game the system. If you can do it...go ahead, the leave days you save will probably be lost anyways, so what's the difference. You'll get paid anyways, so what's the difference.

I suggest you stop talking about my work ethic and what I do or do not kick and scream for. You clearly do not have any idea what you're talking about.

I'm not calling you names, man. Tell me that you need advanced leave days if you can't get this delayed PMCR and I bet you're DO will hook you up...If you have the leave to spare, might have to explain what you were doing in an English Pub instead of this "shit at home" that you needed to be doing instead...explain...it'll work out.

I found the original question pretty weak, however it has generated good discussion. My shirt just stopped me outside the post office and told me I can't wear gloves without my jacket while I walk back to my room...ummm, really? I say you try and get your PMCR, FIGHT THE SYSTEM, KILL THE SHOE CLERKS!

AFI 36-2903: 3.2.7.

BENDY

[Guest Bender]

You just don't know when to quit, do you? Have fun digging that hole; it's coming along nicely.

I still think there is a reg that says I don't have to double turn on Monday, Wednesday and go TDY all weekend...I swear I heard something like that once.

BENDY

Edited March 20, 2007 by Bender