Headset questions

[Riddller]

Yup, I've got the exact same headset and used it to get my PPL. I had to order the converter plug from DC themselves. It was like $130 (ouch!) but well worth it. Everything worked great after that!.

[Fozzy Bear]

Little different question, but has anyone heard anything negative about the new bose headsets? A lot of heavy guys are switching, but I heard a rumor from a flight doc that they somehow damaged your ears over time.

[Guest sleepy]

I have always been skeptical of the whole ANR thing, Fozzy.

David Clark blows. There is another source for the converter for about $80, but they aren't as military friendly. (Tried to hose me out of a paycheck once.)

Hey BENDY...how's that Lightspeed treating you? Please report. I'm considering getting one myself.

[Riddller]

Little different question, but has anyone heard anything negative about the new bose headsets? A lot of heavy guys are switching, but I heard a rumor from a flight doc that they somehow damaged your ears over time.

I haven't heard about them damaging your hearing, but I have heard that they are just not made for use by a military crew-dog. I guess they don't stand up to the wear and tear like a DC does. I love my DC (sts) so don't see a need to shell out the BIG $ for a bose.

My $.02

[Cooter]

The Bose do not take a licking and keep on ticking let me tell you. Our squadron has had a bunch returned for repairs, the arms fro the earcups keep breaking. And better yet they're great for electro shock therapy. If you have lots of electrical equipment round you expect a good jolt every once in a while and loud pops. The noise canceling does litttle in my opinion and we have a noisy aircraft. They're lighter and thats about it. I went back to my DCs quite a while ago like slipping on an old Tshirt. For the price they ain't worth it. Plus the ear pads start to rot when they get sweat on them, so they work well in the desert... .

Cooter

[HerkDerka]

Never had a problem with DC. Tough, durable, easy to customize.

HD

[speedy782]

Our squadron got the bose headsets about 6 mos ago and we've had maybe 10-20% of them break in one way or another. The problems have been that one ear quits getting sound and not being able to transmit and getting a lot of static. They are definitely not as durable as the DCs and the bose also give you that wonderful shock therapy that was mentioned earlier where you will get shocked in one of your ears randomly while flying.

Definitely not worth the money.

[Boxhead]

I have heard that they will damage your ears as well. Something about the fact that they are not stopping the noise, they "hear" the noise, then send out a white noise with the exact opposite sound wave...thus making it seem quiter, but where the debate comes in is over the fact that in reality, you get twice the number of sound waves...they just negate each other at the end game (Your eardrum) So it seems less noisy, but there are twice as many little waves going in there....

I am not a tech guy, I just remember a smart person talking about something along those lines. I am sure there are article to find it online if you cared enough. I am just sticking with ear plugs and DC when I am around loud planes.

[DC]

I took a class on ear phisiology in college (don't ask) and all I remember is those little hairs in your ear that move back and forth with sound waves only have so much back and forth in them before they fall out. Each hair is tuned to a certain frequency, so you can develop holes in your hearing at certain frequencies over time which for pilots would probably be the frequencies their engines whine at. Overall, more sound waves going in the ear = bad.

[Guest sleepy]

Hey BENDY...how's that Lightspeed treating you? Please report. I'm considering getting one myself.

This is what he said in a PM about the Lightspeed QFR X-C's:

I'm becoming slightly concerned about the soldering of the cord, so it's currently the back-up. I use it every so often though. I still haven't figured out how to use the audio plug that's on the ANR/volume control.

More power to you folks who like David Clarks. I know they are made well, they are like a damn vise on my head. That's why I'm considering getting a set.

I'm going to ask a speech pathologist friend of mine what she knows about the whole white noise thing. If no one chimes in here, I'll report what she has to say, if anything.

[Right Seat Driver]

i have recently acquired a pair of david clark ENC headsets...they have a single plug (u-174) military...ive tried a general aviation dual plug, but i can only hear no transmit...my next option is to purchase a dual impedance convertor (high-to-low)...has anyone had experience with using a mil. headset for GA ?

As stated, the convertor works great, but you might need a GA convertor that has a mic amplifier. I had the same problem with a borrowed pair of headsets a while back.

[Riddller]

As stated, the convertor works great, but you might need a GA convertor that has a mic amplifier. I had the same problem with a borrowed pair of headsets a while back.

The problem is the impedence. Mil headset mics work at like 16 Ohms while GA works at 8 Ohms (or vice versa, I can't remember). The DC (or generic) converter not only splits the signal for the double GA plug in, but converts whatever is needed to set the imepedence correctly. No extra amplifying is neccessary.

As a side note: Before shelling out the big bucks for the converter, I tried swapping mics out, going from a mil impedence to a GA impedence mic, and it didn't work. This approach DID work for a non-ENR DC headset, along with a $7 pig-tail looking plug to go from 1 to 2 plugs, but not for my ENR.

[Guest Hydro130]

More power to you folks who like David Clarks. I know they are made well, they are like a damn vise on my head.

sleepy,

Have you tried the DCs with the Oregon Aero Hush Kit (they are standard issue now in many units)? That made all the difference in the world for me. I tried the DC gel ear things and some other stuff, but the Hush Kit rocked it. Incredible comfort difference, and significantly cut down the noise.

And agree with all that the DCs are impressively indestructable/reliable. I put mine through hell over the years, and never had an issue.

Cheers, Hydro

[Guest Boom]

My unit stopped issuing the DC's and issues out these Flightcom's now.

https://www.flightcom.net/site/military/aircrew_e13_anr.php

[Boxhead]

My unit stopped issuing the DC's and issues out these Flightcom's now.

https://www.flightcom.net/site/military/aircrew_e13_anr.php

We had our pick between DC, the Bose, or these flightcoms, (gotta love fallout $$) Anyway, the flightcoms seem cool because you can plug in your cell phones, MP3 players, Iridum phones, etc....but they are not very tough. Mine broke within a month, and the longest I knew of one surviving is about 6 months. I did like 'em better than the Bose though. But all said and done, I am back to DC and I will stay there.

Edited March 24, 2007 by Boxhead

[Fozzy Bear]

Yeah, Flightom's were always the bottom of the barrel in my experience. They'd break, weren't very comfortable, and they let in a lot of noise.

The thing about the opposite sound wave and thus twice the actual waves - flight doc here agreed with that.

[busdriver]

That whole twice the sound wave thing doesn't make sense to me. If the ear works by having a bunch of little hairs that vibrate along with the sound waves, and you hear nothing, that means the little hairs aren't vibrating. Hearing loss is a result of "breaking" those little hairs by vibrating them too hard(sts).

Furthermore, the way ANR works is by creating opposite sound waves that cancel each other out, so no more waves at all.

Edited March 26, 2007 by busdriver

[Riddller]

Gotta agree with busdriver. Lets say you have a bunch of (water) waves hitting a shore, and you want to cancel them at a certain spot. You put a wave generator off shore a little bit and tune it to the same frequency but exactly out of phase. At the point on the shore you wanted, there will be no waves. NOT twice as many waves. If you hear less noise, there are fewer sound waves, period.

[Guest sleepy]

sleepy,

Have you tried the DCs with the Oregon Aero Hush Kit (they are standard issue now in many units)? That made all the difference in the world for me. I tried the DC gel ear things and some other stuff, but the Hush Kit rocked it. Incredible comfort difference, and significantly cut down the noise.

And agree with all that the DCs are impressively indestructable/reliable. I put mine through hell over the years, and never had an issue.

Cheers, Hydro

Thanks, Hydro. I haven't tried that, because in the past I thought doing anything to a David Clark for comfort was merely polishing a turd. I'll give it a shot someday, but the Bose I was issued is going to be my primary when it comes time to need it.

Still waiting to hear from my audiologist friend for her take on the double wave, double damage ANR/ENC debate.

EDIT: This just in...she might be smart, but she's still blond. For what it's worth...

i do know about noise reduction/noise cancellation headsets/headphones. they are awesome....as long as what you want to hear well is what is coming through them and not what is happening outside them. the "noise" the headsets cancel is within the spectrum of our hearing and it is not anything dangerous as long as it is not too loud. (we are not supposed to be exposed to continuous noise louder than 85 dB for any significant amount of time.) i'm sure you will learn about all the osha guidelines). the goal of the headset is to match the "noise" frequency spectrum outside the headset, reverse the spectral waveform, and thereby cancel the "noise"....it could be "white noise" or any other kind of noise for that matter. in reality, you get a significant reduction in the external noise, but not a complete elimination, which is probably a good thing as we don't want you to become unaware of your auditory environment. the headsets can help protect you from external noise that is too loud and make is easier for you to hear the signal of importance coming through the headset over the unimportant noise outside the headset. i have not heard anything negative about them at all. there are different kinds such as open loop, closed loop, and adaptive made by many different manufacturers. they can all be researched online to help you decide which ones you think would be the most beneficial/best match for you. if there are particular ones you would like me to read about before you make a purchase, just let me know, and i'll check them out.

Edited March 26, 2007 by sleepy

[HoHum]

I think I can lay the mil-headset-in-GA question to rest (with some help from Sigtronics' FAQ)...

Q. I have a military headset. How can I use it in a general aviation aircraft?

A. It is possible to use a military headset in general aviation aircraft but it is not practical. Military headsets are different than general aviation headsets in several ways. The first and most obvious is the plug. Most military headsets use a single four conductor plug (U-174/U type). General aviation uses two plugs. Sigtronics manufactures an adapter cable (p/n 900051) that converts between the two plug arrangements but that only solves the plug problem. Another difference is the microphones. Military uses a 5 ohm non-amplified microphone. General aviation mics are amplified and powered by the aircraft intercom or radio. The microphone level and impedance are vastly different in the two systems. Therefore to use the military mic in general aviation aircraft you would need to add a mic amplifier between the microphone and the aircraft. The last and final difference is the speakers in the ear cups. Military headsets use 8 ohm speakers while general aviation uses 600 ohms. This also can be converted with additional electronics. In fact over the many years Sigtronics has been in business we have seen many such converters/adapter cords that take care of all three problems. Our customers, however, tell us that none of them have worked very well. Another approach is to buy general aviation microphones and speakers and change out the military ones. This works but is expensive. The best approach is to buy a headset made for general aviation and save the military headset for the military aircraft.

[CHQ Pilot]

I'll second the Oregon Aero Kit. I got it for my my straight -76s and the comfort factor went way up. The biggest difference was the memory foam type of ear seals which eliminated most of the hot spots. Wearing them 4-5 hours during locals hasn't caused me any problems. The ear covers are better than the ones I had before because they are "oversized" and fill the inside of the earcup. The thin head pad distrubutes the weight better also. They had some density foam to replace what was in the hard shell, but I'm not sure how much it helped. Overall I've been more than happy. I did replace the old wire boom assembly with the flexible one from the ENC and it is a lot better for positioning the mic. I bought it from DC off their website along with a set of mounting screws for the mic (the ones from the -76 don't work). The boom doesn't keep falling out of place and doesn't need to be tightened. The -76XL (ENC) and the straight -76 use the exact same mic, so there is no need to change anything other than the boom itself. My lip light is much more tighter because of the change also.

I use the Telex 850 in my other job which as ANR. It cuts out the wind noise tremendously and since the aircraft I fly doesn't have a hot mic or interphone, it is much easier to hear the other person. I've never tried an ANR headset in the C-5, but I'm not sure how much it would help over a comfortable set of DCs since there is an interphone system. I've heard ANR causes less fatigue, but I've never really noticed much of a difference other than ease of understanding the other person (which is almost a non-issue in an intercom airplane). I've heard pilots with the BOSE like them, but they've also said the same about how they don't hold up too well in the military realm of flight.

Edited April 19, 2007 by CHQ Pilot

[Riddller]

Ginger, I have to disagree. I took my DC ENR headset straight from the -130, plugged in the adapter I got from DC, and it works fantastic. The ONLY draw back I see is that the cords are already long enough to move a bit around a big cockpit, and adding the adapter made it even longer. Not very useful in a Cessna-172, so I just tuck the extra in wherever I can (sts).

[HoHum]

Ginger, I have to disagree. I took my DC ENR headset straight from the -130, plugged in the adapter I got from DC, and it works fantastic. The ONLY draw back I see is that the cords are already long enough to move a bit around a big cockpit, and adding the adapter made it even longer. Not very useful in a Cessna-172, so I just tuck the extra in wherever I can (sts).

Yeah, you gotta take that Q&A portion with a grain of salt, as it's copied directly from Sigtronics' FAQ. They wanna sell headsets. I just wanted to get the impedance part straight for everybody. You can't just buy the splitter that Sporty's sells for the U-174/U - it needs some impedance correction on both talk and listen. However, there are several other places out there that sell adapters for ~$75 with the impedance correction included in the splitter. I just ordered one. I'll post the results with the DC 10-76 after I check it out.

[Guest cobaltmetallic]

I have a set of Bose that I've put 900hrs on. I've never had a problem and they still work great. I regularly beat the crap out of them, and they still keep going. As long as you don't damage the speakers inside the ear cup, you should be OK. Recently, I flew a 12hr flight with a set of borrowed DC X11 ANR headsets. While it is nice having the ability to plug your iPod into the headset, they weren't nearly as comfortable as the Bose after a long trip and the seals around the ears don't conform around sunglasses (which makes everything loud). All in all, the $1K I spent on the Bose was some of the best money I've ever spent in flying.

[HoHum]

Yeah, you gotta take that Q&A portion with a grain of salt, as it's copied directly from Sigtronics' FAQ. They wanna sell headsets. I just wanted to get the impedance part straight for everybody. You can't just buy the splitter that Sporty's sells for the U-174/U - it needs some impedance correction on both talk and listen. However, there are several other places out there that sell adapters for ~$75 with the impedance correction included in the splitter. I just ordered one. I'll post the results with the DC 10-76 after I check it out.

Roommate just used the Pilot USA PA-88 with his DC 10-76s, reports that it works the same as a civilian headset. Got mine for $65 at Spinners.