C-5 Galaxy (Fred) info

[ucf_motorcycle]

I have heard alot about the c-5's all going guard. Is this true? A few people in my squadron have said that they have moved all c-5's out of Dover and that they are all going guard.

What about the Travis c-5s?

I am about halfway through phase 2 at UPT and was hoping to be able to have the c-5 on my dreamsheet. Is it still a viable option?

[Techsan]

I have several good buds that are AD and still flying Fred out of Dover, so I think you may have bad intel. Also, quite a bit of AD Fred drivers here @ Travis.

[Guest BZ]

There are still two active duty squadrons flying the C-5. One in dover and one in travis. Right now their future is up in the air. We had a guy three or four classes ahead drop one from laughlin. The C-5b is in the middle of getting a new glass cockpit and new engines. There stint with active duty depends largely on the premise that we dont buy any more c-17's. Long story short, they still drop every once in a while.

[Herk Driver]

I think lots of the rumormill is being fed by the recent talk that the USAF may retire all the C-5As instead of doing the RERP on them. The CSAF just made those comments before Congress, IIRC. I don't think the USAF knows what it wants to do right now or at least isn't doing it well (ref KC-X, CSAR-X contracting debacles). We are in a reactionary mode based on fiscal constraints.

[Guest Tertle]

I read something about this recently.....

Courtesy of our chums over at Defense Tech:

C-17/C-5

Senator Levin asked about the C-17 and C-5 budget request and how they fit. He asked “how do you reject C-5 re-engining option and put the focus on the C-17s in the unfunded priority list. General Moseley indicated with the increase in the Army and Marines the MCS does not adequately support the larger footprint. We are waiting for the land component numbers from the Army and Marines. We know there will be an increase in requirement for strategic lift. MCS saw a minimum of 300 airlift requirements. Need to retire 25-30 C-5s and work replacements.

Continue AMP on C-5s and RERP on C-5s with the most life. In a case where the land component is growing, strategic airlift is inventory static, C-5 hard to maintain and the C-17 line is about to shut down - we have to make some decisions.

Senator Inhofe asked how many C-17s it would take to keep the line open. Secretary Wynne said he has been pushing Boeing for that figure but still does not have it. His assessment, based on the F-16 line, is less than 1/month.

Senator Thune asked the Air Force to clarify their strategic airlift requirement and how they propose to meet them if authorized to retire C-5As. General Moseley responded we don’t know what the growth of the Army and Marines will do to the airlift requirements. We do know that the MCS did not take into account this growth so we have an unknown. Do not believe the number of airlift assets would go down. Desire to take the worse actors of the C-5 fleet (25-30 aircraft.) and retire them which would provide some revenue to continue mods on the C-5s and possibly acquire more C-17s.

Secretary Wynne reiterated that the Air Force would like to retire 25-30 C-5s. Senator Chambliss expressed that it was not an either/or issue with the C-17 and C-5 but the aircraft complement each other. He then asked if we did cancel the C-5A RERP when would that yield savings. Secretary Wynne explained that if we were to cancel the program (a decision that has not been made) the bulk of the savings would be around 2014-2016. Some immediate savings would be from not having to maintain the aircraft we would retire.

Senator McCaskill asked if the Secretary has read the recent GAO report on airlift/tanker programs. She stated the MCS study is flawed yet the Air Force is basing their tanker acquisition on it. She also outlined the C-130 AMP overruns (+$700M) and reduction in the buy (435 down to 268). Secretary Wynne indicated he has not read the report in-depth. He further explained that while there is disagreement with how GAO sees these programs, the Air Force is complying with DOD-5000 regulations and the Air Force is making “best judgments” on programs

[Guest Boom]

Alot of them are crossflowing to the 135.

[Guest mjk5401]

AD guys have been dropping them still, 1 every 3 or 4 classes. Training is no longer at Altus (two tails here, but going to guard within the month), but when I talked to the Maintenance the other day, they said that they were upgrading the cockpits to glass, so I can't imagine AD getting rid of them soon (just slowing the pace down).

[Guest Lawin2005]

The C-5 training is apparently at Lackland (thanks for that which plane/base thread!!) and was wondering if spouses/families were as equally discouraged from joining their spouse there as they are at Altus. If it is discouraged, are there good places nearby that I could stay for a few days to visit

Second, how long is the training generally before the pilot is sent to their permanent base (I'm just talking about the C-5 training, not SERE, etc.)? I'm not going to complain about the length, I just want to be able to have some kind of idea as to what to expect so I can set up arrangements for my son and me while my husband is training. I am also due with our second in December and wanted to know how about much crossover there will be after the baby's here and he's in training. (again, not going to complain, just to prepare) I know there is no one answer to the length, but I'm completely without any information. We didn't even consider the C-5 in the months we spent talking about airframes since we never thought it would be dropped (much less 4 of them) so neither of us knows too much.

[Toro]

I'm not a heavy guy, but I'll I'll take a stab at this

was wondering if spouses/families were as equally discouraged from joining their spouse there as they are at Altus.

Did somebody actually tell you that you can't go? The training is a TDY (Temporary Duty) vice a PCS (Permanent Change of Station) because it is less than six months. You have a daily lodging allowance and, since billeting at Lackland is available, that amount is probably around $30 a day - not enough to get anything decent off base. To that extent, most wives don't want to sit in a hotel room for six months, so they just stay home. If you want to go, you can go.

If it is discouraged, are there good places nearby that I could stay for a few days to visit

It's not boot camp, you can stay in his room.

Second, how long is the training generally before the pilot is sent to their permanent base (I'm just talking about the C-5 training, not SERE, etc.)?

Again, something less than six months if it's a TDY. For a better estimate he can call the 733 TRS Student Support Flight Administration: 210-671-1332/4907

I know there is no one answer to the length

Sure there is. It's a formal course, there will be a specific start date and (assuming it's not too much different than the fighter FTU) there will be a graduation date. He may not finish exactly on that date, but it's a pretty good estimation.

Recommend you browse through info on the 433 Training Squadron links and download the student handbook.

[Scooter14]

I know there is no one answer to the length...

Like Toro said, it is a formal course, so there is a start and end date.

That being said, I remember when the C-5 school was at Altus, the students had multiple delays in their training due to maintenamnce issues with the aircraft. Not trying to bash your husbands plane, but it does not have the best mission capable rate in the Air Force (translation-she's broken a lot).

Now that there are less C-5's on Active Duty, the Reserves are running the school and the aircraft are based at a field where deopt level maintenance can occur, one would think this should help the training stay on a good timeline.

You can probably plan on him finishing within a few weeks of the projected course graduation date.

[Sierra Hotel]

C-5 Training is about 3.5 months long down in San Antonio assuming you dont get a lot of mx issues

[HerkDerka]

It's not boot camp, you can stay in his room.

Subtle...but classic.

HD

[amcflyboy]

Not to derail the thread but I was under the impression that depot MX for the C-5 had moved to Warner-Robins ALC. Is that not true?

C-5 depot level maintenance also takes place at Westover Air Reserve Base in Massachusetts. But it's not a school house though.

[sputnik]

Most courses I went through at Altus there were plenty of family members along. And PIT in AETC for that matter. Can't speak to Kelly but at Altus the courses were generally a one month course crammed into four months--i.e. plenty of free time for family.

If you sign out of your old location before heading for Kelly you'll have your BAH to spend on a temp appartment. No idea what the billeting situation is there but when I was last at Altus they were so overfull that they allowed folks with families to stay off base. Billeting was around $30 a day, or $900 a month, you could get a fully furnished 3 bedroom appt in town for less than that and quite a few people did.

C5 school will be far less busy and intense than UPT. If you made it through that as a family, you can certainly make it through San Antonio. You may have smaller/more ghetto digs, but you'll have more time together.

Best of luck

[Sierra Hotel]

All of the lodging for C-5 training in now at the Kelly Inn, which is located off base at lackland. You don’t get the choice of staying in town anywhere because they have an entire wing of the inn reserved for the C-5 guys. The nice part about it though is that you get FULL per diem because there are no government meals available. (Make sure you get this put into your orders, because the nice airman at Vance had no clue).

Also, the training is approx 102 days, give or take the sim availability and how often your plane breaks. From what I hear, you do get some free time while you are down there.

Tonedef

[M2]

Just to clarify that Kelly Inn is not on Lackland but on KellyUSA (250 Goodrich Dr, 78236 if you want to map it), which is the new industrial park that formerly was Kelly AFB. It is one of the many facilities that remained after the base was closed, and it is a part of Lackland billeting; but just keep in mind that you are not on base and that the building is accessible to the public. As you may know, this is not the best part of town.

But that said, San Antonio itself is really family-friendly. There are a ton of amusement parks here (SeaWorld, Six Flags Fiesta Texas, Schlitterbahn and SplashTown USA) and of course the RiverWalk and Alamo are popular destinations. If you have the time I would recommend visiting the other missions, there are four others in addition to the Alamo. We also have a nice Zoo and numerous museums. Plus you have the Texas Hill Country just northwest of the city, and the Gulf of Mexico a few hours away.

This message brought to you by the San Antonio Convention and Visitors Bureau...

Cheers! M2

[Guest LRTandA]

Thanks for all the tips and advice and such, I'll definitely let him know to make sure he gets the per diem. It's so hard for us to find other families who have gone through the C-5 since they weren't a frequently dropped plane. My husband has been racking his IPs' brains, but most of them went through it 10 years ago, and it's all changed now. He won't be starting until fiscal 08, and since I'm due in December, I don't think I'd try staying down with him. If the lodging is off base, that will make visiting much easier, and the "touristy" locations will defintiely be worth looking into. Again, thanks to all of you for the help!

Edited July 26, 2007 by LRTandA

[amcflyboy]

I didn't know the C-5s are still flying anymore, seems like most of them sit on the ramp down on Kelly...I thought they were static displays!

Cheers! M2

That's because the C-5 schoolhouse is at Kelly now, not Altus.

[Sierra Hotel]

Kelly generally has a few that are flyable, most are in need of MX but we’re lucky when we even get off the ground. Apparently, there has been an on going battle to improve MX and it hasn’t really been successful.

[Guest Pathwarrior]

I am currently looking at trying to join the 167th AW WVANG, which is almost complete its transition from the C-130 to the C-5. I've been offered a position as Loadmaster, I've also heard that they are VERY short on Engineers. I know that the Engineer pipeline for this airplane is quite lengthy, I also know that after completing this school I would be intimately knowledgable of the C-5's systems, and that would help down the road when I apply again for UPT. I'm just looking for some input on what kind of life both positions lead. What can I expect as a Load, or as an Engineer? If you were applying for UPT down the road which has helped you? If now a pilot, did you start as a Load or an Engineer? Thanks for any input. I appreciate it. -Mike

[BigFreddie]

I flew C-5s for a few years and I am headed back shortly...

Most load masters were pretty young - you can end up in the load master pipeline pretty quickly out of basic. Many of our loads were 18 and 19 years old. On the other hand, the FEs were a bit older - the youngest one was a SrA and he was the saltiest crew dog I ever met. Most engineers were older because they were required to have a maintenance background which took a long while to develop.

FEs are super smart when it comes to the systems of the C-5 and there is a lot to know. Their pipeline is long and much of the training is done on the road and flying the line versus in the school house.

As for which would benefit you more for being a pilot - I think the FE would have a slight edge because they get to see what the pilots are doing and get ultra-familiar with systems - lets face it if you can master the systems on a C-5 you can master darn near any system out there...

BF

[C130GuardBum]

Not a C-5 guy here but I was a former C-130 Load before moving up front. I used to think it would have been better to be a FE prior to UPT but I have to say I think being a load helped out more with coming back to the same airplane. Being a Load isn't rocket science but it does help out in knowing what is going on back there and also what all they need to do to get the airplane ready for take off. It also lets you go back and help out when in a time crunch. You will also pick up alot just listening to the radios and any crew worth their salt will answer any questions you may have. I assume in the C-5 FTU (because they did in C-130 FTU) they will teach you the systems. Not as in depth as FE school but they will still teach them to you and you can get further in depth when you get to your home unit and get more experience in the jet. Just my opinion and your results may be different.

[Guest cheap]

Neither job will help you become a pilot faster - being enlisted aircrew makes college pretty difficult. I'm the C-5 FCC Kayla was talking about - my degree was on hold for the three years I was flying. I eventually had to stop flying and join the reserves to finish my degree. If UPT is your overall goal I'd put Load over Engineer; you'll get the on-the-road experience and an "in" with your squadron without wasting a lot of your time learning a job that you don't want to make a career. UPT teaches systems, and every other non-prior crew chief in my UPT class is making do just fine... even if they do have to study a little bit more. More food for thought: not only is FE school longer, but it will also take you longer to upgrade. When I was enlisted, college pretty much wasn't allowed until you'd upgraded to a 5-level (which took about a year if I remember right).

Dave

[Guest Pathwarrior]

Thank you for all of your insight.

Cheap- I've already got my degree in hand, and am 22 years old. Basically I am looking for that "in" with the Squadron. I interviewed with the Board in May, and applied four other places as well with not so much as an interview. I'm lacking a PPL, so I'm going to go as a Load, after talking with my folks tonight and work on my PPL and maybe Instrument rating as well. My Dad was a C-130 IP with the unit for a long time, so I have roots as well. We figured by the time I got done the 18-20 months of "seasoning" required by the Squadron I'd be 25, and any unit that spends THAT much money on you is not going to want to let you branch of without turning over any revenue in that investment. I am currently looking at AGR pilot position as well, but in any case I'm going to be a Loadmaster. FredEx, here I come!

[pcola]

I'll be headed to San Antonio this summer for C-5 initial qual and have a few questions that have been hinted at in other threads but I was hoping somebody had some Lackland/C5 specifics.

I know that Kelly Inn is never full, but assuming its aprox $30/day for lodging, can I take that $900/month and get a flexible 3 month lease on a furnished apartment? How does the voucher work when I won't have a hotel receipt for the $30/day. Can I get a receipt from the landlord for the monthly rent, divide that by the # of days in the month, and file that with the voucher, as long as its less than the daily rate at Kelly Inn? Since Kelly Inn is a billeting contract location, can I stay elsewhere without a Non-A slip? I've always stayed pretty much where ever I wanted on my C-21 missions without worrying about a Non-A, so I'm not 100% certain about the fine print.

Assuming that I can rent an apartment, is anybody familiar with Stoneybrook Apartments or Lodge at Westover Hills? I found both of them on Hotpads.com and they look like nice places (furnished corporate short-term apartments) for around the $900/month Kelly Inn price. I'm also open to suggestions if anybody knows of any other places around the area.

The reason I'm looking at renting an apartment is because I'm going TDY enroute from Ramstein to Travis and my daughter will be just turning 1 y/o at the time. I can't leave my family in Ramstein and I don't really want to move them out to Travis without me, so we're looking at having them go to San Antonio with me. That would be much more comfortable in an apartment. Also, I can't really find any info regarding the BAH situation. I understand that when PCSing with a TDY Enroute, you maintain your losing base BAH until checking in to your new base. Since my losing base is Ramstein, I'm currently receiving OHA. My OHA includes a contracted monthly rent rate (i.e. actual cost of apartment lease as approved by the housing office up to a monthly maximum decided by rank and dependents) converted from Euro to Dollars, plus a monthly utilities allowance. Right now my monthly rent is coincident with the maximum allowed for my rank and dependents. What happens when my family and I move out of the house and terminate the contract? Will I still receive the same OHA? Will I start receiving Travis BAH?

As to the actual training, from what I can gather from the prior C-5 guys around my squadron, it looks like all new initial quals are trained on AMP jets and will never fly the legacy jets. Is that right? Also, any update on the C-5M? Timeframe on when Travis is expected to start getting their jets modded?

Thanks to anybody willing to provide some answers.

Cheers