Fort Smith conversion

[lloyd christmas]

I love my job. I am only a C-130 loadmaster but I love my job. Every once in a while I see some really cool stuff. Here are some pics I took during todays Ft Smith conversion festivities over Arkansas.

Edited April 14, 2007 by ARGuardTech

[brickhistory]

I am only a C-130 loadmaster

Please don't ever include the 'only' part in describing your service.

Unless you are an Air Force Band conductor..........

[Dead Last]

Please don't ever include the 'only' part in describing your service.

Unless you are an Air Force Band conductor..........

"2"

And is the AR Guard taking applications for 130 guys to switch to A-10's?

cheers

[Guest Jarrell]

What an appropriate place for some warthogs...razorback country...i love that paint job!

Go Hogs!

[Guest Boom]

I love my job. I am only a C-130 loadmaster but I love my job. Every once in a while I see some really cool stuff. Here are some pics I took during todays Ft Smith conversion festivities over Arkansas.

I don't know how a AETC Guard unit flying around Arkansas teaching instructor schools would see any cool stuff?

[Guest SnakeT38]

Yea right!

Actually we had 3 former Herc drivers, one went on to be OG at BAD.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Actually we had 3 former Herc drivers, one went on to be OG at BAD.

Depends on the unit. Some units get so many full up applicants they don't look to hire outside the community. I think it is good to try to get some other experience, like SEAD, but I wouldn't look to the heavy community as a place to start.

Some units need people really badly. Some units are willing to look at anyone and are more interested in "good guys" who can fly. I think it used to be easier before the SUPT thing, when everyone flew T-38s.

I talked to the Ft Smith FS/CC a few weeks ago and I beleive they are is concentrating on hiring A-10 guys, but you never know.

I like the paint job, nice pics.

[lloyd christmas]

Please don't ever include the 'only' part in describing your service.

Unless you are an Air Force Band conductor..........

You are right. That did not come out as I wanted it to. I meant as a C-130 loadmaster I rarely get to see F-16s and A-10s on my wing.

Edited April 16, 2007 by ARGuardTech

[Guest Ghost63]

Yeah - what a weekend to break a jet there on a cross country. "You guys here for the Hog party?" "uhhh, what Hog party?"

5 minutes after a massive hydraulic leak trying to leave...

"Why, yes we are."

GREAT dudes/chicks at that squadron, had a blast!

[Guest TBear]

Actually we had 3 former Herc drivers, one went on to be OG at BAD.

Are you talking about RV? The current OG is an ex Army helo guy turned A-10 with a couple of years of HH-60 thrown in. I was in a unit that hired guys with a wide range of previous experience including KC-135 navs, Cobra guys, B-1 pilots, Eagle drivers, LGPOS pilots, C-130 pilots, Navy guys and civilians off the street. Just to name a few. Quick observation, if you picked them up young or from a similiar MWS then it was no problem. It was all good. If you hired a senior capt or major from the airlift/bomber world then it didn't work out as well (there were exceptions to this). Not the fault of the individuals. It's just after 10-14 years of doing something one way it is just too hard to change. They will not have the same frame of reference as the guys that grew up in Hawgs (or fighters). Words don't even mean the same. I.E. easy turn to a heavy guy is 5-10 degrees of bank while to a fighter guy it is more like 45 degrees. That is just an example but it makes the point. Also, it is difficult (mentally) for a person that was an AC/Instructor/SEFE in his heavy to move into fighters and start out as the snacko wearing major's rank. Sorry for the hijack. Now back on track. Jet looks great. Go Hawgs!

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I was in a unit that hired guys with a wide range of previous experience including KC-135 navs, Cobra guys, B-1 pilots, Eagle drivers, LGPOS pilots, C-130 pilots, Navy guys and civilians off the street.

Really?

Why?

[F-15E WSO]

Also, it is difficult (mentally) for a person that was an AC/Instructor/SEFE in his heavy to move into fighters and start out as the snacko wearing major's rank.

If there was a field grade snacko position advertised, the line would be out the door.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

If there was a field grade snacko position advertised, the line would be out the door.

Maybe. Part time at Ft Smith is tough. I don't think any of their part timers live in the local area. I imagine it would be hard for the unit to do anything except the minimum if 90% of the guys were commuters.

[Whitman]

Depends on the unit. Some units get so many full up applicants they don't look to hire outside the community. I think it is good to try to get some other experience, like SEAD, but I wouldn't look to the heavy community as a place to start.

What about AC-130's? It seems like their knowledge of CAS would be of great benefit to a hog unit.

[Guest TBear]

Really?

Why?

Yes.

I don't know!

[Hacker]

I disagree. There is a huge difference in how hogs and gunships do cas, mainly lines 1, 2, and 3.

Yeah, it must be insanely difficult to pick up the JFIRE and flip a couple of pages from the "Call for Fire" page to the "JCAS 9-line" page.

While I understand the point, CAS is CAS...regardless of how the talk-on progresses and whom it progresses to. Having a guy who all ready understands what .1% PI means is a benefit over someone who has never read the JPub.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

I disagree. There is a huge difference in how hogs and gunships do cas, mainly lines 1, 2, and 3.

Very few A-10 and AC-130 pilots are familiar with the way the other does business or work with the same ground forces. There are few training opporunities for the two to work together.

My experience has been that AC-130 and A-10 pilots understand each other's business and work very well together. In fact, my experience has been that AC-130s and A-10s working together form a very powerful and lethaL team.

As for AC-130 or A-10 pilots tranisitioning to each other's aircraft...I don't think it is a natural swap or a good idea. Too many differences between the way the two aircraft are flown and employed. I believe the AC-130 guys would find the transition to single seat operations much easier than the A-10 guys would find the transition to the non-stop talking AC-130 target area ops.

JMHBAO.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

You're both right...kind of.

Hacker is more right. In fact, he's a lot more right.

Remember, the original question was would AC-130 CAS experience be a benefit to an A-10 unit. The answer is yes, definitely. The biggest issue would be that 99% of the A-10 guys in the standard A-10 unit (maybe 100%) wouild not be cleared to hear the details of the AC-130 guys combat experiences.

The difference between the way A-10s and AC-130s do CAS is not that vast. AC-130 guys know CAS. The most obvious benefit would occur if the AC-130 guy was able to provide the gateway/POC for an A-10 unit's CAF/SOF integration training plan.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

First, you are showing your ignorance of what AC-130s do.

I'm not even going to comment about your second point except to say that I know for a fact that you are wrong about that. You think you know something but you don't. Trust me on that. I'll give you a little advice, take it or leave it...try not to talk about being a SOF support or AC-130 mission expert until you have a little more experience than talking to some guys on the radio on your local range. That's just JTAC training, not SOF support or CAF/SOF integration. Apples and oranges.

I'm done talking about this since it is really not an appropriate topic for this forum. I was just trying to let you know that you have no idea what the AC-130 guys do AND that the AC-130 guys know plenty about CAS. A-10 guys do not hold a monopoly on dedication to or knowledge of the mission. We all look stupid anytime one of us acts like we're the only ones who know anything or have any skills.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Dude, I'm not that much of an idiot...you obviously don't know what we are doing these days.

"Dude", you might be surprised that my old friends are still my friends. They don't know you.

I do know more than you think about what you are doing these days and I think it is a good first step.

I said I wasn't going to do this but...

Let me know when your first mx guy can do a combat turn (re-arm and through flight) lights out/on NVGs and when your first pilot is qualified to do NVG T/O and landings on a 70' x 5000' piece of "hard surface" anywhere on the planet.

[ClearedHot]

Rainman,

Do you visit this site to offer your knowledge to others, or to beat your chest and have contests about your weiner size with others? Does your comment about NVG landings imply it couldn't be done today if needed? Are you bored after you got out of the Air Force? Do you talk to people in this same tone to their face? By chance, do you drive a Corvette??

Nothing like a 12 post SNAP pitching into a fight with low SA.

Seriously, a small bit of advice...

A. STFU.

2. Egress 270 to the regen point and re-enter nose cold until you know WTF is going on.

Semper Fi

[ClearedHot]

A. My SA wasn't/isn't that low. I was reading this site for a while before I started saying anything. I knew that comment would get some heat, but oh well. I said it. Sorry. As far as being a SNAP...I know all your respect for someone is based on your fancy BaseOps ranking system, but I'm pretty sure I'm not as much a SNAP as you think. Sorry I haven't built up as much time as you and Rainman putting people in their place over the internet.

9. Nothing like a AC-130 pilot talking air to air. Me thinks that auto-qualifies you for a STFU of your own.

T. Nice numbering system.

Your SA is so low you missed the oldest gag in the book....First A. and #2...are you dumb?

Your SA is also low because I know Rainman in person...we were instructors at the WIC together, I shook his hand on the ramp at Bagram at rockets were screaming back and forth in the hills, and I fought the bad guys with Bros from his squadron on my wing...you really have zero clue.

How about you go eat a bowl of dick and return to reading posts rather than making them.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Rainman,

Do you visit this site to offer your knowledge to others, or to beat your chest and have contests about your weiner size with others? Does your comment about NVG landings imply it couldn't be done today if needed? Are you bored after you got out of the Air Force? Do you talk to people in this same tone to their face? By chance, do you drive a Corvette??

Everyone calm down. I'm happy to answer these questions...

Yes, no, no but is is not as easy as many think and it involves a significant amount of training in both ops and mx to be at a point where you can operate in that environment full up and I'm not just talking about taking off and landing from a runway, sometimes, sometimes, no I have a pretty sizable mortgage and three teenage boys who drive cars/burn $2.80/gal gas and play football/hockey/lacrosse (no hoops or soccer or wrestling or other inexpensive sport) and eat like horses and my daughter's private college tuition bills to pay...so, sadly, no Corvette. No plane either, even though Bozz thinks I should buy one. I did have a Camaro for a very brief time (many years ago) after I had to get rid of my Honda Interceptor (even more years ago), but that didn't last long with four little kids and I was soon driving a '93 Suburban...which I still drive and park in the barn next to my favorite vehicle (a Ford tractor) since my wife and Kid's cars take up the three garage stalls attached to the house.

Sorry to ruin whatever image of me you had. Is that enough personal information?

I'm not sure why it seems like I'm chest beating but I acknolwedge your perception as being valid to you. I think it is great that guys are motivated to do the CAS mission and that they are motivated to support anyone who needs CAS. Like I said, CAF/SOF integration is a big commitment and training hurdle that no A-10 squadron in the USAF (ADor ARC) is fully engaged in right now and there is a big difference between talking to some SF/SEAL/STS/whatever JTAC guys on the radio so they can get their controls and actual full up integration. CAF/SOF integration is the new sexy thing and it is something everyone wants to do.

What I find refreshing is you don't see the AC-130 guys dumping all over the rest of the CAF guys when they talk about SOF support, even though they could. They are perfectly secure in the knowledge that they do what they do better than anyone else in the world and they aren't threatened by anyone else that wants to join the party as long as they can bring something to the fight.

JMHBAO.

[FireMission]

What I find refreshing is you don't see the AC-130 guys dumping all over the rest of the CAF guys when they talk about SOF support, even though they could. They are perfectly secure in the knowledge that they do what they do better than anyone else in the world and they aren't threatened by anyone else that wants to join the party as long as they can bring something to the fight.

No doubt. Well put.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

You're right, I have zero clue about...Rainman. Should I know more?

Hey wait a second, I asked you first. And I even asked politely.