Proficiency in the Guard

[mhc257]

Long time lurker here that finally decided to drop a post.

I'm finishing up school at UT and hoping to get a Guard slot with the 136th AW. This question goes out to everyone though since I plan on applying to fighters and possibly tankers as well if I can't get a Herk slot.

Do ANG guys match up with AD guys in proficiency and general combat readiness? The reason I ask is that if I'm going to be flying around getting shot at, I'd prefer to be as prepared as possible. Thus, if AD guys are typically more prepared, I think I'd prefer to go AD. It seems to me that it would be especially difficult in a guard fighter unit to maintain proficiency, but I guess as long as we're at war, pretty much everyone is staying pretty fresh. Your thoughts?

[Bergman]

Do ANG guys match up with AD guys in proficiency and general combat readiness? The reason I ask is that if I'm going to be flying around getting shot at, I'd prefer to be as prepared as possible. Thus, if AD guys are typically more prepared, I think I'd prefer to go AD. It seems to me that it would be especially difficult in a guard fighter unit to maintain proficiency, but I guess as long as we're at war, pretty much everyone is staying pretty fresh. Your thoughts?

In my experience (tankers) there is no difference between AD and ANG crews. If anything, I would say most ANG pilots are more proficient that the typical AD guy. The reason is experience. The average ANG pilot is older, probably has prior enlisted experience, and probably had a hell of a lot more flying experience prior to UPT. Also, ANG guys tend to stay around a lot longer and their primary job is almost always flying...versus AD where you may be a pilot, but your Group Exec job takes up 90% of your time. I fly less hours than AD (because we mill about the flagpole a lot more vs. extended drone sorties from the Died) but my sortie count and significant proficiency events (landings, takeoffs, etc) are much higher. Our pilot average is ~3000 hours. I suspect that is a tad higher than the AD.

As for ANG or AD being "more prepared"...we all have the exact same training requirements. I have to do all the same CBTs, ground training, flying training events, checkride requirements (with the same grading criteria), currency requirements, etc as any AD person. There is NO difference. Except we have to get our requirements done in only 1 mandatory ground training day per month.

I would not let the level of training or preparedness of either the AD or ANG be a determining factor. Base your decision on airframe, location, PCS potential, unit cohesion, or any number of other factors.

[Scooter14]

Long time lurker here that finally decided to drop a post.

I'm finishing up school at UT and hoping to get a Guard slot with the 136th AW. This question goes out to everyone though since I plan on applying to fighters and possibly tankers as well if I can't get a Herk slot.

Do ANG guys match up with AD guys in proficiency and general combat readiness? The reason I ask is that if I'm going to be flying around getting shot at, I'd prefer to be as prepared as possible. Thus, if AD guys are typically more prepared, I think I'd prefer to go AD. It seems to me that it would be especially difficult in a guard fighter unit to maintain proficiency, but I guess as long as we're at war, pretty much everyone is staying pretty fresh. Your thoughts?

From the tanker world...

11-2KC-135V1 (the KC-135 training AFI that dictates how much you will fly) does not discriminate (with very few exceptions...9mm training comes to mind) between AD vs ARC (Air Reserve Component - Guard/Reserve). If I'm a new PIQ, and I am going to McConnel, March or Meridian, I still need X amount of approaches, Y amount of landings and Z amount of RV's.

Take this next paragraph for what it's worth. This opinion is mine and mine alone and biased since I am in the ANG.

In my experience in the ANG, with two trips to the Died augmenting the Active Duty and trips with other ANG units, I would argue that for the most part, the ANG crew force is more experienced. While the AD folks may be more proficient in the AOR due to their ops-tempo, I spoke with many AD crewmembers that spent 2 years in the tanker, were upgrading and had never been on a Coronet, Aeromedical Evac mission, to PACAF or to any other runway other than the ones you use to get to the AOR and back. Guys upgrade faster on AD because of opstempo. I saw some young capts take the challenge and excel at being an AC, but I also saw some capts flying with young 1Lt's making some really bad calls at times as well as some gross buffoonery. Do we buffon things in the ANG? Sure, but I think we do it less since we have older, more experienced, more mature IP's who have BTDT. But, you've gotta start somewhere...

So, as I go around and around here, I'll sum it up...don't worry about going to an ANG unit and it being a bunch of long hair yahoos who can't find their ass with both hands and a map. Today's Reserve Components (for the most part) are out there hacking the mish every day. Every C-130 unit that I know of has already been to the AOR multiple times. They will have a cadre of crusty IP's who have BTDT in many different airframes and you will learn a ton from them.

On the flip side, AD is a great place to start, gain experience and learn the ropes. You can do that for a few years, stay on AD or jump to the ANG. Your call. Read some of these threads from guys like Bergman, Rainman, Bozz...guys who have seen both sides and make your decision from there. Good luck.

EDIT - Seems Bergman posted as I was typing. He's always trying his $0.02 in before me. Bastard.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Do ANG guys match up with AD guys in proficiency and general combat readiness? The reason I ask is that if I'm going to be flying around getting shot at, I'd prefer to be as prepared as possible.

Here we go...

[Guest sleepy]

https://www.flyingsquadron.com/forums/index...&#entry9711

[mhc257]

Thanks guys.

[Guest Pan130]

I can say I cannot matain any sort of proficency (spelling error) or currency for that matter in the -130 with my airline gig. It is super hard to do both. I have been in the -130 for about 2 years and feel like it is week 1 everytime I come to fly. It is the nature of the beast. I wish it were different but with all that goes on these days it is hard. I would bet money the AD is more proficent than me in a heart beat. They only have one aircraft and ops rules to follow. Put me on MDW-HOU cross country and I will kicka$$

[Insubordinate & Churlish]

I can say I cannot matain any sort of proficency (spelling error) or currency for that matter in the -130 with my airline gig. It is super hard to do both. I have been in the -130 for about 2 years and feel like it is week 1 everytime I come to fly. It is the nature of the beast. I wish it were different but with all that goes on these days it is hard. I would bet money the AD is more proficent than me in a heart beat. They only have one aircraft and ops rules to follow. Put me on MDW-HOU cross country and I will kicka$$

Is this typical for airline-Guard guys?

[Combat Platypus]

Is this typical for airline-Guard guys?

Kinda. However, before these guys typically deploy they will get fully spun up (current and proficient). Again, most have extensive prior experience to draw on and it will come back very quick. Also, you'd be surprised how much other experience you can pick up flying civilian around the world or CONUS as opposed to just flying around the flag pole.

[Guest LoadChik]

Long time lurker here that finally decided to drop a post.

I'm finishing up school at UT and hoping to get a Guard slot with the 136th AW. This question goes out to everyone though since I plan on applying to fighters and possibly tankers as well if I can't get a Herk slot.

Do ANG guys match up with AD guys in proficiency and general combat readiness? The reason I ask is that if I'm going to be flying around getting shot at, I'd prefer to be as prepared as possible. Thus, if AD guys are typically more prepared, I think I'd prefer to go AD. It seems to me that it would be especially difficult in a guard fighter unit to maintain proficiency, but I guess as long as we're at war, pretty much everyone is staying pretty fresh. Your thoughts?

Have you already interviewed with our squadron?

If anything, I would say most ANG pilots are more proficient that the typical AD guy. The reason is experience. The average ANG pilot is older, probably has prior enlisted experience, and probably had a hell of a lot more flying experience prior to UPT. Also, ANG guys tend to stay around a lot longer....

That being said.....they are pretty damn proficient.

Anyhow...the unit just got deactivated not to long ago, though we do still have an AEF requirement. These days, anyone wanting a desert rotation can volunteer to deploy with another unit (if the unit in question DOES want you...)

EDIT ~ 1

Edited April 23, 2007 by LoadChik

[Guest Caddis]

Long time lurker here that finally decided to drop a post.

I'm finishing up school at UT and hoping to get a Guard slot with the 136th AW. This question goes out to everyone though since I plan on applying to fighters and possibly tankers as well if I can't get a Herk slot.

Do ANG guys match up with AD guys in proficiency and general combat readiness? The reason I ask is that if I'm going to be flying around getting shot at, I'd prefer to be as prepared as possible. Thus, if AD guys are typically more prepared, I think I'd prefer to go AD. It seems to me that it would be especially difficult in a guard fighter unit to maintain proficiency, but I guess as long as we're at war, pretty much everyone is staying pretty fresh. Your thoughts?

The answer is it depends on you and how much you want to fly. We have some bums that fly alot and are getting over 400 hours a year in a wide variety of missions both Conus and OConus. The one variable is the number of bums you have in a squadron, the more bums the less the flying. However you really have know way of predicting how many bums will be there 2 years from now when you get back from all your schools.

I would say in the Herk you will have no problem being as proficient as your AD counter part.

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Do the fighter guys care to chime in on this. You obviously not flying cargo around but how often do you get to do Air-to-Air or simulated CAS?

[Danny Noonin]

Do the fighter guys care to chime in on this. You obviously not flying cargo around but how often do you get to do Air-to-Air or simulated CAS?

Speaking for the reserves...RAP is 6 per month plus a sim for me. Just like heavy squadrons...that's the min. You can fly as much as you can weasel yourself on the schedule...that depends on how many days you have available. Could be a ton, could be the min. I think guard fighters are the same. I believe that's a lot more sorties than the heavy dudes are required to fly for mins. That really translates into about 8 days a month when SOF/Top 3/Queep get thrown in. This is for the "experienced" column. Not sure how it works for reserve babies since we don't have any in the associate world.

Disclaimer...I'm in an associate squadron, so I fly attached to a regular active duty squadron. I believe your typical guard/reserve fighter squadron deals with part timers a little better...i.e. more surges/double turns/etc. to get the sorties in fewer days.

As far as keeping proficient...yeah, it's tough. But getting a min of 6 sorties per month compared to a normal active duty month isn't a killer as long as you are getting good sorties. I showed up in this sq as an IP/SEFE, so it's not like I've had to do any upgrades or anything. That would be difficult at best for continuity reasons...my part time guard bros tell me that it can be very tough to get in the upgrade line depening on how often they are able to be around.

Overall for me, it's been a tough year...F-15 grounding plus a couple long (6 week) layoffs for my day job. Just when I feel back on the step, I get another layoff. Once I get back in the groove for a while (next month hopefully), I think it will be better.

Edited July 28, 2008 by T-Bone