Military in Uniform at Airport

[Butters]

Feel free to bring a change of clothes to work if you know that you're going to be doing extended periods of shopping after work.

I think the reg is pretty clear on this one.

edit: I'm pretty sure that everyone on this board has been in similar situations before. Doesn't mean we can just do w/e the hell we feel like.

I think I know what your problem is:

[Guest Scooby]

How predictable. I knew the "you're a tool bag for following AFIs" responses were coming.

I hate dudes who fall back on AFIs as much as the next dude but that doesn't mean we can do whatever the hell we feel like either. Can I get drunk in uniform because I'm heading to the bar after work?

Bending the AFI to meet mission requirement is one thing. Out right breaking the AFI to suit my own selfish purposes is something I have no interest in participating in.

BTW the AFI I'm referring to is making quick convenience stops in uniform. I doubt Xmas shopping at a mall counts.

Maybe the dude was getting just one thing...in which case I'll gladly eat a dick. But considering how many bags he had, I doubt it. I mean, I'd love to wear my uniform in public too so that I could get free shit but that doesn't mean I do it..

Edited January 3, 2010 by Scooby

[tac airlifter]

Maybe the dude was getting just one thing...in which case I'll gladly eat a dick.

No suprises there.

[HossHarris]

I'll gladly eat a dick.

In before the edit ...

[Vertigo]

Anybody can easily get a military uniform. I could easily go to a milsurp store and bam, I'm SPC Snuffy. So, I have no problem with TSA doing the same process for those in uniform. Not to mention even I could probably counterfeit a mil ID well enough to pass the "don't have to take off your boots" thing.

I'll agree to this if it's just one or two persons traveling in uniform. But when 30 of us show up together in a blue bus with government plates, check in together under a group booking with the tickets being charged to an AF travel account, and go through the gate together... chances are were not some dudes who just rolled up to the milsurp store and forged 30 mil IDs.

[HerkFE]

I'll agree to this if it's just one or two persons traveling in uniform. But when 30 of us show up together in a blue bus with government plates, check in together under a group booking with the tickets being charged to an AF travel account, and go through the gate together... chances are were not some dudes who just rolled up to the milsurp store and forged 30 mil IDs.

Kinda like when my crew had to buy last minute, one way tickets when the Herk broke. Six of us in bags (yes, I know the reg but this wasn't planned so chow my hog) going through security, boots off, spread eagle, anal probes inserted...

[JarheadBoom]

I was at the mall on XMas Eve and saw a dude walking around in ACUs doing his Xmas shopping.

I was really tempted to stop him and ask him WTF he thought he was doing.

How predictable. I knew the "you're a tool bag for following AFIs" responses were coming.

I hate dudes who fall back on AFIs as much as the next dude but that doesn't mean we can do whatever the hell we feel like either. Can I get drunk in uniform because I'm heading to the bar after work?

Bending the AFI to meet mission requirement is one thing. Out right breaking the AFI to suit my own selfish purposes is something I have no interest in participating in.

BTW the AFI I'm referring to is making quick convenience stops in uniform. I doubt Xmas shopping at a mall counts.

Maybe the dude was getting just one thing...in which case I'll gladly eat a dick. But considering how many bags he had, I doubt it. I mean, I'd love to wear my uniform in public too so that I could get free shit but that doesn't mean I do it..

Note the emphasis in your post that started this minor shitstorm. Notice anything out-of-place?

If that's not a typo, your guy was Army... and while some of you may still consider me "new" to the Air Force, I'm pretty sure the Army doesn't follow our AFIs for their uniforms.

Edited January 3, 2010 by JarheadBoom

[Guest Alarm Red]

Maybe you should run for public office.

How predictable. I knew the "you're a tool bag for following AFIs" responses were coming.

I hate dudes who fall back on AFIs as much as the next dude but that doesn't mean we can do whatever the hell we feel like either.

BTW the AFI I'm referring to is making quick convenience stops in uniform. I doubt Xmas shopping at a mall counts.

Sorry, which AFI is it again? If this is important enough to you to detract from your Christmas Eve shopping experience, I expect chapter and verse.

Maybe the dude was getting just one thing...in which case I'll gladly eat a dick. But considering how many bags he had, I doubt it. I mean, I'd love to wear my uniform in public too so that I could get free shit but that doesn't mean I do it..

Why don't you worry a little more about what Scooby is doing and a little less about PFC Slapnutz and his Christmas shopping? Seriously, people like you are the ones who care if a guy walks 100 meters to piss at night without his PT shirt tucked in.

[Guest Scooby]

Maybe you should run for public office.

Sorry, which AFI is it again? If this is important enough to you to detract from your Christmas Eve shopping experience, I expect chapter and verse.

Why don't you worry a little more about what Scooby is doing and a little less about PFC Slapnutz and his Christmas shopping? Seriously, people like you are the ones who care if a guy walks 100 meters to piss at night without his PT shirt tucked in.

I said I was tempted to ask him...clearly I didn't.

But way to go in trying to equate my story to mindless idiocy in the desert. The two have nothing in common.

[BQZip01]

I said I was tempted to ask him...clearly I didn't.

But way to go in trying to equate my story to mindless idiocy in the desert. The two have nothing in common.

Mindless idiocy in the desert

Mindless idiocy in CONUS

...you're right. The two have nothing in common...

[Guest Scooby]

Mindless idiocy in the desert

Mindless idiocy in CONUS

...you're right. The two have nothing in common...

So a serious question to those who think that wearing the uniform or other-than-quick stops after work is acceptable.

Where is the line drawn? I mean, if we're going to do our own thing then what is to stop anyone from wearing the uniform outsideof work for personal gain? I sure as hell could get a ton of free stuff if I was in uniform all the time.

I honestly don't know what's so hard about following the rule about convenience stops only. And yes, I realize

that the Army doesn't abide by AFIs but clearly we've gone beyond that.

Edit: mind you, I've never said anything to someone in uniform outside of work and probably

never will unless they're disrespecting the uniform in some way. I'm really just talking about us personally.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Scooby

[pawnman]

So a serious question to those who think that wearing the uniform or other-than-quick stops after work is acceptable.

Where is the line drawn? I mean, if we're going to do our own thing then what is to stop anyone from wearing the uniform outsideof work for personal gain? I sure as hell could get a ton of free stuff if I was in uniform all the time.

I honestly don't know what's so hard about following the rule about convenience stops only. And yes, I realize

that the Army doesn't abide by AFIs but clearly we've gone beyond that.

Edit: mind you, I've never said anything to someone in uniform outside of work and probably

never will unless they're disrespecting the uniform in some way. I'm really just talking about us personally.

I'm pretty sure the reason we don't wear bags/BDU/ABUs out on the town is because the USAF feels that they don't look "professional" enough, i.e., they are "work clothes". There's nothing in any of the AFIs that limits you from wearing your blues for shopping trips, to the bar, to a restaraunt. If you're really feeling left out of the free stuff train, wear your blues. Then you can be in regs AND get a ton of free stuff. Assuming you're willing to wear blues to the mall.

I have to tell you, in the times that I've stopped by Wal-Mart after work to pick up milk, or the mall to pick up that last-minute birthday/valentines/anniversary present, I've never recieved free stuff.

[ram02]

I mean, if we're going to do our own thing then what is to stop anyone from wearing the uniform outsideof work for personal gain? I sure as hell could get a ton of free stuff if I was in uniform all the time....Edit: mind you, I've never said anything to someone in uniform outside of work and probably never will unless they're disrespecting the uniform in some way.

Dude, I think you're reading too much into it. Yes, the textbook answer is to change into civilian clothes if you're doing extended shopping, but look at the situation as a whole. Was the Army guy using his uniform for personal gain? Was he bringing discredit upon the Armed Services while Christmas shopping? Did you see him ask for free stuff using his uniform as a prop? Maybe the wife just called and said the relatives are coming into town short notice and he has to pick up some gifts on the way home. Unless you saw him do something that would bring discredit upon the uniform (and to me, the act of shopping doesn't qualify), then give him the benefit of the doubt.

[amcflyboy]

I guess the big picture here is:

There's a time and a place for us to mind our own business, and then when we should speak up.

I'm just saying....

[contraildash]

I have to tell you, in the times that I've stopped by Wal-Mart after work to pick up milk, or the mall to pick up that last-minute birthday/valentines/anniversary present, I've never recieved free stuff.

Back stateside, I've had maybe five or six meals bought for me while on lunch-n-backs. Personally, I think the American public is more excited to see us in bags than in blues. I've been out in public in both uniforms and had very different experiences in them. So the AF may not want us out and about in bags, but the civilian population sure does like it.

[Guest Alarm Red]

So a serious question to those who think that wearing the uniform or other-than-quick stops after work is acceptable.

Where is the line drawn? I mean, if we're going to do our own thing then what is to stop anyone from wearing the uniform outsideof work for personal gain? I sure as hell could get a ton of free stuff if I was in uniform all the time.

I honestly don't know what's so hard about following the rule about convenience stops only. And yes, I realize

that the Army doesn't abide by AFIs but clearly we've gone beyond that.

Edit: mind you, I've never said anything to someone in uniform outside of work and probably

never will unless they're disrespecting the uniform in some way. I'm really just talking about us personally.

The AFI says 'short convenience stops, including shopping malls.' I think that last minute Christmas shopping after a half-day on Christmas eve would fall into that. This isn't about bending rules, this is about you and your quest to pick out minutiae. There's no 'doing your own thing' here, nobody said they wake up on Saturday and put on their flightsuit before they shop.

As for the original soldier, to which you felt tempted to say something, it's good that you didn't. The ALARACT supplement to AR 670-1, their parent uniform reg, says:

Soldiers may wear the ACU off post unless prohibited by the commander. Soldiers may wear the ACU for commercial travel unless otherwise directed by the commander.

So hopefully this issue has been put to bed for you Scooby. Certainly there's someone walking around your base right now with white socks on under their flightsuit - I think they need correcting, go get on it.

[theSituation]

I really think that this whole discussion is kind of asinine. I'd have to say that yes, it is a matter of positive public perception to see THEIR military out and about in the uniform. Of course there are going to be those that abuse the rules and go to the mall on a Sunday in their ABU/ACUs, but overall people need to be given the benefit of the doubt and we should all mind our own business. I think an exception to this rule is that if I see someone wearing the uniform wrong or disrespecting it I will not hesitate to correct them. And I'm pretty positive that I'm not the only one who'd do that.

Oh, and safety on that dick talk Scooby...

[BQZip01]

So hopefully this issue has been put to bed for you Scooby. Certainly there's someone walking around your base right now with white socks on under their flightsuit - I think they need correcting, go get on it.

Actually, the AFI states you can wear white socks with a flightsuit...

[tac airlifter]

Actually, the AFI states you can wear white socks with a flightsuit...

Why would anyone clutter their brain with this useless nonsense? I will never in my life care what an AFI says about my sock color or underwear; it won't change anything I do. When leaders make stupid rules they just water down the legitimacy of all rules. Case in point, 202v3 specifically states only AF issue sunglasses can be worn while flying, but that rule is broken by literally every person I've ever flown with. How about we all just worry about shit that matters and expend energy memorizing things that matter?

[BQZip01]

Why would anyone clutter their brain with this useless nonsense? I will never in my life care what an AFI says about my sock color or underwear; it won't change anything I do. When leaders make stupid rules they just water down the legitimacy of all rules. Case in point, 202v3 specifically states only AF issue sunglasses can be worn while flying, but that rule is broken by literally every person I've ever flown with. How about we all just worry about shit that matters and expend energy memorizing things that matter?

Why? Well, when a dipstick Major refuses to let some flightcrew guys into a chow hall because they are wearing white socks, it is important to know the rules. When a full bird Colonel walks over (with the now-angry-and-hungry flightcrews) to said Major with a printout of said rules asking why the Major is hassling flightcrews who have limited time to eat with upcoming crewrest requirements, you can be the Major needed to know the rules...

(true story from the 'Deid)

[JarheadBoom]

Why would anyone clutter their brain with this useless nonsense? I will never in my life care what an AFI says about my sock color or underwear; it won't change anything I do. When leaders make stupid rules they just water down the legitimacy of all rules. Case in point, 202v3 specifically states only AF issue sunglasses can be worn while flying, but that rule is broken by literally every person I've ever flown with. How about we all just worry about shit that matters and expend energy memorizing things that matter?

Because knowing the shoe-rules better than the shoes is like having the enemy's ORBAT.

It is HIGHLY satisfying to send an indignant shoeclerk packing with his tail tucked between his legs, after symbolically smashing his nuts with your superior knowledge of the very AFI he was trying (incorrectly) to enforce.

[pawnman]

Because knowing the shoe-rules better than the shoes is like having the enemy's ORBAT.

It is HIGHLY satisfying to send an indignant shoeclerk packing with his tail tucked between his legs, after symbolically smashing his nuts with your superior knowledge of the very AFI he was trying (incorrectly) to enforce.

Bingo. The only way to defeat them is on their own level.

[csjohns7]

True Story

This Morning - 6:00am - Dayton airport TSA line.

3 officers in ABUs, with reflective belts on. Belts were on during the flight, and were last seen still on in the cab line at DCA.

[afnav]

True Story

This Morning - 6:00am - Dayton airport TSA line.

3 officers in ABUs, with reflective belts on. Belts were on during the flight, and were last seen still on in the cab line at DCA.

Well, I guess they're going to the Deid...

[LT4Life]

Because knowing the shoe-rules better than the shoes is like having the enemy's ORBAT.

It is HIGHLY satisfying to send an indignant shoeclerk packing with his tail tucked between his legs, after symbolically smashing his nuts with your superior knowledge of the very AFI he was trying (incorrectly) to enforce.

So true. The best part is that they read the regs and think they know them. They aren't accustomed to reading a sentence, picking it apart, deciphering it for yourself, deciphering it how an evaluator could decipher it, deciphering it how a safety board could take it, attempt to figure out how it will be asked on the MQF, figuring out the course of action you will take based on doing what you will do while still keeping in mind the intent and how you would explain it to said evaluator, safety board or even copilot. Their understanding of the reg and our understanding of the reg even though we have only read it once or twice is still a completely different animal.

True story: our group first shirt sits in our squadron (lucky us). She argued one Friday that the red shirts the flyers wear is unfair to those that don't wear bags in the squadron. "Besides, it's a dumb rule buried somewhere in a supplement." Being bored with the conversation taking place at my desk I printed out the page in the actual reg that says it's legit, highlighted it and handed it to her. It feels good because while she sees her job as extremely stressful, she has no idea what it is like to have flying as a secondary duty. I hate shoe clerks.