Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) Q&A

[Jughead]

Additional Question:

Finance here is telling me I'm out of luck for making a TSP contribution for Nov. I arrived in the AOR on 24 Nov. In preparation for this deployment, I maxed out my deferred contributions to the TSP in Sep--so no TSP contribution could be made for Nov, absent a CZTE. Now I'm here, but they're saying since the month already closed out, there's no way I can make a tax exempt TSP contribution (despite the fact that I have the tax exemption entitlement and my TSP contribution numbers set).

True/False? Any way around it? As I've said before, I'm trying to max roll the TSP while I'm here....

[Finance_Guy]

Additional Question:

Finance here is telling me I'm out of luck for making a TSP contribution for Nov. I arrived in the AOR on 24 Nov. In preparation for this deployment, I maxed out my deferred contributions to the TSP in Sep--so no TSP contribution could be made for Nov, absent a CZTE. Now I'm here, but they're saying since the month already closed out, there's no way I can make a tax exempt TSP contribution (despite the fact that I have the tax exemption entitlement and my TSP contribution numbers set).

True/False? Any way around it? As I've said before, I'm trying to max roll the TSP while I'm here....

You have some recourse but try to do it quickly if possible. I would say in your case AFMAN 65-116 Vol 1, Chapter 68, para 68.15.2.1 applies. Maybe they should look in their own regs before spouting out an answer. Of course the main reason yours didn't was due to your arrival date (pay day cutoffs) which means the pay system had already rolled to Dec. But that does not remove the fact that you were in a zone and earned tax free pay for that month. It's very possible the pay system will recalc Nov and look at TSP options once your CZTE is posted to the pay record.

68.15. Claims Procedures. Members must alert their Financial Service Office (FSO) of any discrepancy with regards to their TSP withholdings/earnings within one year of notification of the discrepancy. As it is the member’s responsibility to read and validate the monthly leave and earnings statement the 1st notification received by the member would be the month in which the transaction should have occurred and didn’t, or occurred incorrectly.

68.15.1. The FSO determines the member is making a claim to request correction of an agency error (versus an administrative error). If the claim is made within the required one-year time frame, the pay office will assist member in completing DD FM 2851, request to correct thrift saving plan (TSP)agency error. The form can be located at the following: https://www.dior.whs.mil/icdhome/forminfo/wwwinfo1page2493.htm. The FSO will forward the claim form to DFAS-PMJFD/DE, 6760 E. Irvington Pl., Denver, Colorado 80233-5000 for adjudication.

68.15.2. The following are examples of agency errors for which a claim may be appropriate:

68.15.2.1. The member enrolled in TSP and deductions were not withheld, a different percentage amount was withheld, or the deduction was taken from a different category of pay than elected.

68.15.2.2. In the case of the member receiving his semiannual statement from the National Finance Center (NFC), the statement does not reflect proper timely posting of contribution to the account.

68.15.2.3. Member elected to stop TSP contributions and deductions continued beyond the first full pay period after receipt of the form.

68.15.3. DFAS-DE will adjudicate the DD FM 2851 within approximately 30 days of receipt.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Finance_Guy

[Jughead]

You have some recourse but try to do it quickly if possible. I would say in your case AFMAN 65-116 Vol 1, Chapter 68, para 68.15.2.1 applies.

68.15.2. The following are examples of agency errors for which a claim may be appropriate:

68.15.2.1. The member enrolled in TSP and deductions were not withheld, a different percentage amount was withheld, or the deduction was taken from a different category of pay than elected.

FG, first of all, for your help--thank you!!

I certainly will follow up on this. The pessimist in me wonders, though, if my situation truly is (or will be viewed as) an "agency error," or just bad timing? I'll keep you posted. Thanks again!

EDIT UPDATE: Turned in the form yesterday. They accepted it, but w/in the hour had turned it & forwarded to my home station FM. I think that's pretty weak, but, as long as it moves along.... I'll keep an eye on it & keep you updated. Thanks!

Edited December 12, 2009 by Jughead

[Jughead]

I certainly will follow up on this.

Add some more to the not inconsiderable quantity of which FG has coming to him....

The approval from DFAS was pretty quick--less than a week after the local FM forwarded my form to my homestation, they came back with their answer. Getting the actual money "deposited" was a different story. After some hemming & hawing, mostly about what office could take the money (local AEW FM, Shaw [AFCENT/FM], or homestation), the locals finally deigned to take my money, so the Nov TSP contribution has been made; I'm told it will be credited to my TSP account at MM pay cycle of January.

Quote of the DFAS response below, in case anyone else can use it. BL, thanks again, FG!

There is no error on the record, however, the FL was in fact coded late, which meant the system didn't know that it should have taken money out for November, IN November. Due to this fact, the member is entitled to contribute up to 7368.30 for November exempt TSP. The only way to do this, is to have the member bring in a check to his FSO in the amount of 7368.30, and the base will need to post that to the MMPA as a CC. Not a C2, as that is a collection attached to a debt, whereas a CC is simply a collection. The base will then need to refer back to us so that we may move the money to TSP accordingly. The hard part is making sure all of the above is done before EOM cutoff, otherwise, we will need to wait until after midmonth in January to process this. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Finance_Guy]

Add some more to the not inconsiderable quantity of which FG has coming to him....

The approval from DFAS was pretty quick--less than a week after the local FM forwarded my form to my homestation, they came back with their answer. Getting the actual money "deposited" was a different story. After some hemming & hawing, mostly about what office could take the money (local AEW FM, Shaw [AFCENT/FM], or homestation), the locals finally deigned to take my money, so the Nov TSP contribution has been made; I'm told it will be credited to my TSP account at MM pay cycle of January.

Quote of the DFAS response below, in case anyone else can use it. BL, thanks again, FG!

Sweet...so that's 5 beers? Good to see some things work as designed. Sucks that when you initially asked the question no one tried to look it up in the manual. Just keep an eye on all of this. Sometimes when they process the collection of the funds they dork it up. If they do, you have recourse to do it again. But let's hope USAFCENT Finance folks at Shaw know what to do.

Add some more to the not inconsiderable quantity of which FG has coming to him....

The approval from DFAS was pretty quick--less than a week after the local FM forwarded my form to my homestation, they came back with their answer. Getting the actual money "deposited" was a different story. After some hemming & hawing, mostly about what office could take the money (local AEW FM, Shaw [AFCENT/FM], or homestation), the locals finally deigned to take my money, so the Nov TSP contribution has been made; I'm told it will be credited to my TSP account at MM pay cycle of January.

Quote of the DFAS response below, in case anyone else can use it. BL, thanks again, FG!

Let me add one more thing. DFAS has told them to process the "CC" collection after MM cutoff. MM cutoff is usually about the 5-6th day of the month. So they can enter the CC sometime after the 6th. Once they see the collection on your pay record that's when they need to reengage with DFAS so DFAS can pull the money. If they do not, then the collection posted to your pay will just pay it out to you again on the End of Month (EOM) Jan pay. The cutoff for EOM is usually around the 24-25th, so they have about a 20 day window to make this happen which is plenty of time, but as you can see, timing is critical along with good communication with DFAS. It's really a simple process but some just don't get it. Later

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.

[Jughead]

Just keep an eye on all of this.

That's what I've been doing--and, I'm (mostly) happy to report that it's (mostly) all good now. There was some issue w/ getting it credited to 2009 vs 2010, but that's been all worked out--all contributions have been taken & TSP deposits have been made. Thank you again!

One remaining issue I'd like your opinion on: in the process of crediting the Nov TSP deposit & back-dating it to 1 Dec, they made a "breakage" charge against my account, based on the difference in value between 1 Dec & when the deposit was finally credited (mid-Jan). By my read of the reg you gave me, that shouldn't have been done:

68.12. Breakage. By law, members are entitled to "breakage" on certain contributions that, as a result of agency error, were not invested when they should have been (and which the member did not otherwise have use of). Currently, breakage does not apply until the contribution is more than 30 days late being sent to NFC. This process compensates members for agency error and must be requested via a claim process. However, members are not entitled to breakage on contributions that were not actually deducted from their pay, but they may be entitled to make-up contributions. Breakage is computed by NFC. [emphasis added]

Forwarded that through my home unit Finance and got the following CMS response from DFAS:

Well, it does read that but, according to the Air Force, contributions are only to be payroll deducted. That is why we have you put it on the pay record and we deduct it from his pay record. So, with that being said we can either refund the [whole deposit] or he can take the breakage that was applied. If there had been a gain he would have received that. We are not supposed to take any checks, but we do understand that these things happen. So, please let us know what he would like to do. Thank you!

That's pretty weak sauce, I'd say--it boils down to "sure, that's what the reg says, but we don't do it that way." I also don't appreciate the thinly-veiled threat of negating the entire deposit as an "either/or" choice. The deposit was not "actually deducted" from my pay, and I did "have use of" the funds--either one of which should negate any breakage.

Reality check: the amount involved is small, about $30. It's certainly not worth it, in dollars & cents terms, to pursue this--I see that. However, I'm so annoyed at how much of a hassle this has been, over some pretty easy math and following some pretty straightforward rules, that I'm tempted to see it through on principle.

So... your thoughts?? You've been 100% spot-on so far, so I'll weigh your input heavily before proceeding. Thanks for any advice. Cheers!

PS: I'm starting to hope you're a teetotaler--I don't think I can afford all the I owe you!

[Finance_Guy]

That's what I've been doing--and, I'm (mostly) happy to report that it's (mostly) all good now. There was some issue w/ getting it credited to 2009 vs 2010, but that's been all worked out--all contributions have been taken & TSP deposits have been made. Thank you again!

One remaining issue I'd like your opinion on: in the process of crediting the Nov TSP deposit & back-dating it to 1 Dec, they made a "breakage" charge against my account, based on the difference in value between 1 Dec & when the deposit was finally credited (mid-Jan). By my read of the reg you gave me, that shouldn't have been done:

Forwarded that through my home unit Finance and got the following CMS response from DFAS:

That's pretty weak sauce, I'd say--it boils down to "sure, that's what the reg says, but we don't do it that way." I also don't appreciate the thinly-veiled threat of negating the entire deposit as an "either/or" choice. The deposit was not "actually deducted" from my pay, and I did "have use of" the funds--either one of which should negate any breakage.

Reality check: the amount involved is small, about $30. It's certainly not worth it, in dollars & cents terms, to pursue this--I see that. However, I'm so annoyed at how much of a hassle this has been, over some pretty easy math and following some pretty straightforward rules, that I'm tempted to see it through on principle.

So... your thoughts?? You've been 100% spot-on so far, so I'll weigh your input heavily before proceeding. Thanks for any advice. Cheers!

PS: I'm starting to hope you're a teetotaler--I don't think I can afford all the I owe you!

Sorry for the delay. Been a rather busy fellow lately. I have to agree that is weak. Obviously DFAS has forgot the original issue in that it was their pay system that caused this whole mess anyway. Regardless of the method of deposit they should be able to process it for a Dec credit. Since you identified it early and wrote a check for the missed contribution in less than 30 days after discovery they shouldn't bring on that B.S. about having "use" of the funds. But not sure it's worth $30 worth of effort and the chance DFAS might mess something else up trying to fix this.

[Jughead]

But not sure it's worth $30 worth of effort and the chance DFAS might mess something else up trying to fix this.

Yeah, that's sort of the take-away here. As I say, the $30 itself isn't the issue--I'd be pursing it on principle. However, the chance of making it worse (and getting things to the point where I can't fix things) looms large.

<*sigh*>.... As annoyed as I am, I think I need to let this one go. Thanks for all your help--in the bigger picture, this is a clear win!

Edited May 12, 2010 by Jughead

[MilitaryToFinance]

Anybody seen the legislation being bounced around in Congress about allowing folks to sell back unused leave and deposit it into their TSP account? Sounds like an interesting idea to me. I don't seem to manage to take 30 days of leave in a year so I wouldn't mind being able to cash some in if possible and if it was a good deal.

[Gravedigger]

Anybody seen the legislation being bounced around in Congress about allowing folks to sell back unused leave and deposit it into their TSP account? Sounds like an interesting idea to me. I don't seem to manage to take 30 days of leave in a year so I wouldn't mind being able to cash some in if possible and if it was a good deal.

I think it would be nice if you could sell that leave to other people, namely me. I'd be willing to pay upwards of $3.50 per day.

[Vertigo]

Anybody seen the legislation being bounced around in Congress about allowing folks to sell back unused leave and deposit it into their TSP account? Sounds like an interesting idea to me. I don't seem to manage to take 30 days of leave in a year so I wouldn't mind being able to cash some in if possible and if it was a good deal.

You lose so much when you sell leave because you only get paid base pay. No BAH + all the other shit like COLA, BAS, etc.

Selling leave is a lose/lose for you.

[Jughead]

Selling leave is a lose/lose for you.

Not true under all circumstances--perhaps not even "most" circumstances, given that the overwhelming majority of "sold" leave is in lieu of terminal leave (as far as I know).

Yes, you lose out on BAH, BAS, etc. on sold leave days. However, let's say you're separation/retirement date is 1 July and you have 30 days of leave. If you separate/retire on 1 June & take the 30 days as terminal leave, you get full pay until 1 July. If you sell the 30 days, you work up until 1 July w/ full pay AND get the 30 days (base pay only) in addition.

Another consideration is if you're looking at a civilian job with a government contractor. Normally you cannot be on terminal leave (ie, technically still on active duty) and working in a contract position--so, selling the leave (even at a "reduced" rate) may make complete sense if it allows you to start drawing a paycheck at your new job. I don't know if the same thing applies for govt civilian jobs, but it wouldn't surprise me.

That's not to say terminal leave is "bad"--it's hard to place a dollar value on that time off. BL, everyone's situation will be different.

EDIT: spelling

Edited May 16, 2010 by Jughead

[Jaded]

Selling leave is a win if you're going to lose it anyway. Not everyone is afforded the opportunity to take leave.

[MilitaryToFinance]

You lose so much when you sell leave because you only get paid base pay. No BAH + all the other shit like COLA, BAS, etc.

Selling leave is a lose/lose for you.

Not if you are going to lose it regardless. I'm not referring to selling back terminal leave. The bill was giving you the ability to sell leave at any time to convert it into a TSP investment. Outside of Christmas time I haven't taken any leave so it would be nice to sell back use-or-lose leave.

[Vetter]

Quick question about changing the % of base pay to contribute.

Next year, I want to change my % from 1% currently to 14% so that I can max out my TSP in 2011. When should I go into MyPay and make the change so that the change effects my first 2011 paycheck? Basically, I don't want to do it too early to effect my last 2010 paycheck, but not late enough to miss my first 2011 paycheck.

Thanks for the help!

Edited November 26, 2010 by Vetter

[moosepileit]

As soon as you see the 31 Dec 2010 LES post on Mypay, you are good to go for cranking up TSP for 2011. Note, you can only do 2 interfund transfers a month, if you want to do any managing. Also, try and be all done for 2011 before the 1 Dec paycheck for contributions. If 14% does that for you, great, may need a few more percent. TSPtalk.com is a pretty good free website on TSP ins and outs. Daily preview at tsptalk.com/comments.html

[Vetter]

As soon as you see the 31 Dec 2010 LES post on Mypay, you are good to go for cranking up TSP for 2011. Note, you can only do 2 interfund transfers a month, if you want to do any managing. Also, try and be all done for 2011 before the 1 Dec paycheck for contributions. If 14% does that for you, great, may need a few more percent. TSPtalk.com is a pretty good free website on TSP ins and outs. Daily preview at tsptalk.com/comments.html

Perfecto...thanks for the help!

[Finance_Guy]

Quick question about changing the % of base pay to contribute.

Next year, I want to change my % from 1% currently to 14% so that I can max out my TSP in 2011. When should I go into MyPay and make the change so that the change effects my first 2011 paycheck? Basically, I don't want to do it too early to effect my last 2010 paycheck, but not late enough to miss my first 2011 paycheck.

Thanks for the help!

Actually for TSP, you can do it anytime after 1 Dec. TSP enrollments or changes have to be done prior to the 1st of the month they are to be effective. So if you change it on 2 Dec, the system can not legally make it effective for 1 Dec, but must roll to the next month, being 1 Jan 2011.

So my answer is you can do the change anytime from 2-31 Dec. But to be safe, get it in before about 25 Dec.

[HeloDude]

Anybody else planning on increasing their TSP in light of the fact that our taxes might/will all go up 1 Jan 2011 if Congress doesn't extend the current tax rates?

I have max'd out my ROTH IRA for the last 10 years (as well as other investments in a non-tax sheltered account) and have been putting in 3% for TSP (just to put in something) the last 6 years, but now I'm thinking it might be time to do more if the gov't is going to start taking away more of my money. Thoughts?

[stract]

last year I put in 50% of my base pay to TSP while I was deployed (so added benefit of being tax exempt), and I was below the poverty line in the eyes of the IRS when it was all said and done...

[Whitman]

last year I put in 50% of my base pay to TSP while I was deployed (so added benefit of being tax exempt), and I was below the poverty line in the eyes of the IRS when it was all said and done...

Just to clarify for others who are new to TSP, investing in TSP while deployed DOES NOT drive down taxable income for purposes of reducing your annual tax bill. The only advantage is, the earnings are tax free when they are withdrawn.

[Jughead]

investing in TSP while deployed DOES NOT drive down taxable income for purposes of reducing your annual tax bill

Further clarification: ...unless you are fortunate enough to earn more than the CZTE limit (typically, 12-yr O-4 on flight pay & above), in which case a deferred contribution (i.e., pre-tax) from the taxable amount can be made....

[Ebony zer]

Does anyone know what if any are the limitations to converting part or all of my TSP into my Roth IRA? Basically in 2011 I want to max out my TSP while I'm in the 25% tax bracket. In 2012 I'll be deployed the entire year and will have little taxable income (assuming the Bush tax cuts are extended). So in theory I could transfer the $16,500 to my Roth IRA, pay $2,475 in taxes (would be $4,125 if I do nothing so a net gain of $1,650), and be able to contribute more than the current $5,000 limit. If I'm correct than I could also transfer whatever it takes to raise my taxable income to the top of the 15% tax bracket (2010 is $68,000 for married filing jointly) pay the taxes at 15% or $9,362.50 and let it grow. Any thoughts or inputs?

[Jughead]

Does anyone know what if any are the limitations to converting part or all of my TSP into my Roth IRA? [...] Any thoughts or inputs?

Assuming you are on active duty: are you separating/retiring in 2012? You can't take a distribution or make a rollover[subject to a couple of special cases] from the TSP while you're still on AD. I don't really know how that works for part-time Guard or Reserve, there may be ways to do that.

You've got to dig a bit, but all the rules, etc., are on the www.tsp.gov site....

[Disregard]

Lifecycle 2050 begins the end of Jan 11. This could be worth transferring your money into from L 2040 if you want a more aggressive mix of stocks and bonds and you're planning to start withdrawals around 2045.