Alcohol Violation

[drumkitwes]

My room mate was drinking and got written up. Because it was my room as well, as well as the fact I was there, I got written up too. What can happen because of this?

[pintail21]

My room mate was drinking and got written up. Because it was my room as well, as well as the fact I was there, I got written up too. What can happen because of this?

Our cadre say, if the school does something, they don't care because thats not going to pop up on a background check. But they were referring to parking tickets, either way I wouldn't worry about it if you were drinking. But if they do find out about it you could get into trouble for not reporting it, I don't know what your det commander is like.

[Guest waxgoblin]

A residence hall contract violation isn't really a criminal matter, so there's no need to really worry about it. I have gotten written up a couple of times this year for being in somebody else's room where there was alcohol present, which isn't illegal for me to do but is against the contract.

Edited May 10, 2007 by waxgoblin

[Dubs]

Yeah I'd report it rather than worry and worry about if it's gonna rear it's ugly head again someday and ruin your hopes and dreams. Plus if you keep your Cadre in the loop, more times than not they're willing to work with you

[Herk Driver]

My room mate was drinking and got written up. Because it was my room as well, as well as the fact I was there, I got written up too. What can happen because of this?

I dont' know what could happen because of it, but with respect to all the advice you're getting: One of the best DO's I ever had used to say, "Do what your conscience will allow". I would follow that guidance.

[brabus]

Tell your cadre what happened and that you were in YOUR room and your roommate, not you, was drinking a beer...he got caught and you got a citation or whatever. It shouldn't be a big deal. They should know that though you "shouldn't" be going to parties w/ alcohol and what not, it's not like you can just stay away from your own "home." That's two different things IMO. What do they expect you to do, go sleep out on the lawn? But, if you choose not to tell them and somehow this gets out several months down the road, you could be really screwed, b/c then they'll wonder what you're hiding, if you really were drinking, etc. If you tell them now rather then them finding out later down the road, it will look much better on you and they'll be much more understanding of your position. That's just my opinion though...there's probably a descent possibility they'd never find out, but your taking a chance that they do.

[Vandal]

there was a guy at NATCON this year who is in limbo right now because of an incident involving alcohol, passing out in the lobby and puking in someone elses room. As of right now he has not commissioned and does not have a job and he was a Cadet Wing IG. The wiggle room is slowly going away.

[Slander]

Or just don't be stupid about it. If you're underage and drinking don't photo document the experience, and definitely don't put those photos online. If you're drinking in your dorm, don't be loud.

I was written up plenty my freshman year in the dorms (mostly for "visitation violations"), I'm not sure how it works where ever you're going to school but they didn't report anything to the police, so I never thought much of it. IIRC they just made kids write letters home to mom and dad and threatened to evict them. I know a couple of the letters were sent out, but I never saw anyone get the boot from the dorms.

I asked the cadre about it when it happened and they said if I wasn't involved with the police, they don't need to document it on the bad-kid form. Just tell the cadre you got written up by the dorm, and ask them if you need to fill out any paper work. I never had to.

[Vandal]

The second kind of cadre is like what we have and it is a nice thing. The respect really does go both ways, we treat them respectfully and it is reciprocated. They also will give you enough rope to either get out of the tree or hang yourself. Has anyone suffered through the other type and have any decent stories? We had one guy get 2 MIPs and the Col. pulled a lot of favors in to help him out. Right before his 21 got another and they went back to up to bat for him but not with nearly the furor. He was basically left to swing because this guy fvcked over the Cadre after all the work they put into this guy. He got the boot just before commissioning. BTW he was on scholarship.

[Guest peanut]

I must admit that I partook in some "not so legal" (by ROTC regs) drinking activities in college and got in trouble a couple of times. The best story though was right after the rule was passed about no drinking on "Professional Military Training."

After we went on a base visit to an unnamed base in south Georgia, we stayed at a local hotel down the road to stay for an airshow the following day. That nightt a few buds and I (13 other cadets, all but one of which were 21) started drinking at a mexican bar, with a few buds that were in pilot training at the local base. We thought we wouldn't get in trouble for drinking since we were already done with the base visit which was the "PMT." The next night, after the airshow, we partook in the same festivities at the same spot as the previous night. The only problem was that on this night someone cut his head open while wrestling with one of the other cadets (sts). The cut was taken care of by a butterfly bandage and all was well. With the exception of one of our ROTC NCOs finding out about the incident and informing our Capt. that was on the trip. The Capt. was pretty chill about the incident and just asked the next morning on the bus ride home if the injured guy was ok. He never mentioned alcohol or asked if it was an alocohol related incident.

The following Monday, all of us that decided to get sloppy drunk on the trip found out that someone anonymously screwed us over by admitting to our COC that we were all drinking on the trip. We all had to get counciled by the COC, then our Col. Needless to say, we all lost our ROTC jobs, which left the Det. with pretty much no one in charge for the last month, and were worried about our career jobs until we were told we'd keep them. I know for a fact that a few of us surf this board, so if any other comments/corrections can be made to this story, by all means, please chime in. This was one of the most fun trips I was on through all of ROTC. I also learned a lot from our stupidity.

Lessons learned:

1. If you're gonna fvck up, do it in numbers.

2. Make sure everyone is as old as you think they are.

3. Always know the crowd you hang out with so you don't get when it comes to having fun

4. Make sure the "PMT" is over with before you risk losing your career over a rule

5. Stupid acts like these always make good stories later in your career when you realize just how much they don't really matter.

Edited June 26, 2007 by peanut

[Guest warriorboy16]

This is kind of along the same lines.

i have a buddy at another det. his roommates held a beer pong tournament at his apt. he ended up drinking a little, and there are pictures of him around alcohol (he's underage). i told him he should be upfront and just tell his cadre that he had a couple of beers; what do you guys think he should do? also, he had smoked marijuana before he joined rotc and reported that when he first joined, and so he had to get a waiver. i dont know what to tell him, because i know that if you already got a waiver for drug or alcohol abuse, then your second one would get you kicked out.

i tihnk he's screwed honestly, but i gotta tell him something.

[brabus]

i told him he should be upfront and just tell his cadre that he had a couple of beers

Dumb. Just like war said..STFU. If even on the very slim chance cadre saw him in a picture around beer bottles, who cares? It doesn't show him drinking and it's not his fault his roommate (civilian I'm assuming) held a beer pong tourney. This is college for fucks sake, why is everyone so damn scared about drinking beer nowadays?

[FlyingBull]

I 2nd what brabus said. It isn't a big deal unless you turn it into one. EVERYONE drinks underage. There is no form you have to sign saying you never drank underage, and the only alcohol related question on the security clearance is about being an alcoholic.

Just ask his friends not to post the pictures/take them down.

[Guest tenguFlyer]

The reg (AFROTCI 36-2011 [i only know this from my own expereince, lols]) says you need to report all violations with police, military personel or school authorities. I only point this out because a lot of people on here seem to have implied if the police were involved it doesnt matter.

Also noteworthy is that your bird can waive anything that the military or police werent involved in. (i.e. school issues). So if you explain it to your cadre like you did to us they will probably waive it. I say that because in my expereince (at 3 dets), as long as the cadre could handle it at the Det level they would go ahead and do that. Now I can't garuntee this for every det but I have moved around more then like 90% of other cadets.

I also agree with someone above saying that cadre wont probe to know more than you want them to. They generally dont want to find out either.

[Guest dexter04]

I can remember getting an alcohol violation from my school and the worst that came of it was a conditional (my first and only one). As long as it doesn't show to be a habit (i.e. either don't be around it or just don't get caught) you should be fine. You should have seen all the things I had to put down on my commissioning paperwork (unlawful entry, possession of a firearm, alcohol violation...etc) from stupidly deciding to play Airsoft on campus one night. All I can say is learn from lapses in judgment (however impaired) and just don't repeat them!

-Dex

[brabus]

Also noteworthy is that your bird can waive anything that the military or police werent involved in. (i.e. school issues). So if you explain it to your cadre like you did to us they will probably waive it.

"Can", not "will". "Probably" is also another red flag. I'll say this to every ROTC kid out there...if there is no official police/school official involvement, then there is ZERO reason to say anything to anyone. I don't care if the cops talked to you, if they didn't arrest you or give you some sort of citation, then you're a complete idiot if you say anything about it to your Det. I don't give a shit if you have the "coolest" Col ever. It is NEVER a good idea to say something when you don't need to. Never pass the opportunity to STFU is great advice that also applies to life outside the flying world.

Edited May 23, 2009 by brabus

[Bronco130]

We got the speech about reporting school-related incidents also even if they didn't involve police. Unless you chopped a dudes arm off and the school decided to punish you rather than the police, it's not that big of a deal. My cadre never investigated our university record... but beware some schools might and you'd be .

I can't tell you how many school-issued parking tickets I got. I reported the first one my freshman year because of the rule and then realized that was beyond belief.

[Guest SpunkDagger]

I know a dude who got caught drinking by the po. Rumor has it he stood at attention for 30 mins while the det commander handed it to him. He is still around. Some older dudes told him that was his get out of jail free card.

He was scared it was going to be investigated for disenrollment but cadre informed him that will only go down if you are POC.

[Guest tenguFlyer]

1.5.2. The AFROTC Form 35 is the basic document used to record involvements. 1.5.2.1. Any offense, violation of law or ordinance, or any other incident causing adverse involvement or contact with civil, military, or school authorities as an adult or juvenile is an involvement for AFROTC purposes and must be reported. This also includes violations of school honor code ; UCMJ/Article 15 actions; and administrative discharge, demotion, or letters of reprimand while in government or military service. Any adverse involvement affecting a cadet or an applicant for membership in AFROTC, regardless of the outcome or date of the offense, must be considered under this section to determine whether the involvement disqualifies the applicant for enlistment and or continuation in the AFROTC program. Once initially certified, the individual's AFROTC Form 35 becomes a permanent record; do not alter or re-accomplish it for any reason. Subsequent involvements must be added to the original AFROTC Form 35. Additional AFROTC Form 35 may be added as needed.

1.5.2.2. Any alcohol related incident (e.g. minor in possession, purchase for a minor, etc) that involves an underage person is automatic grounds for investigation for disenrollment/dismissal from the AFROTC program. EXCEPTION: Detachment commanders may waive ONE incident of “Minor in Possession”, or its local equivalent, for GMC cadets only. All waivers must be appropriately documented. If contracted, award a conditional event. (reference para 1.5.3.1, Table 2.1 and schedule 2.1) For GMC non-contract

1.5.2.3. Upon application to AFROTC, the detachment commander or their designated representative must initially counsel applicants that they are required to report all involvements with civil, military or school authorities, regardless of the severity, disposition, or the date of the involvement. If doubt exists as to the need to list an involvement, it must be listed to preclude future question regarding omissions. Brief the cadet that they must continue to report all subsequent civil involvements to the detachment within 72 hours after the involvement occurs with the exception of involvements which occur during school break periods of more than 72 hours. In this case, the individual may wait to report the involvement NLT 72 hours after their return to classes following the break. NOTE: The disposition information must be updated within 72 hours of final disposition.

1.5.3.1. For alcohol/drug related incidents, the AFROTC Form 4 must include the amount consumed, over what period of time, field sobriety test results, blood alcohol content, breathalyzer results, etc.

1.5.6.8. When discovering that a cadet has failed to report an involvement, the individual must prepare an AFROTC Form 4, and enter the involvement on the AFROTC Form 35. Commanders will initiate a disenrollment investigation, dismiss the cadet (non-contract) or submit an AFROTC Form 22, to HQ AFROTC/RRFP requesting a waiver.

4.15.4. Examples of Fraudulent Enlistment. A fraudulent enlistment exists when a cadet was enlisted who deliberately failed to report or materially misrepresented: 4.15.4.1. A civil involvement that happened before enlistment. For GMC non-contract.

1.9.1. Detachment commanders may waive only those alcohol-related involvements listed in Figure 1.3. Detachment commanders may deny waiver consideration or submit waiver requests to HQ AFROTC/RRFP via AFROTC Form 22, as they deem appropriate (reference AF Form 2030, definition of terms section, for a description of alcohol abuse).

Figure 1.3. Continued Category 2: Violations that require corroboration prior to detachment commander waiver: (serious traffic and minor non-traffic offenses). NOTE: When considering waivers for the offenses listed below, you must also look at the details of the event to be certain that Detachment level waiver is appropriate. If violation appears severe (i.e excessive alcohol level, arrest or confinement etc), contact HQ AFROTC/RRFP for consideration.

Abusive language under circumstances to provoke breach of peace

Careless or reckless driving (if alcohol related, a HQ AFROTC/RRFP waiver is required)

Committing or creating a nuisance Curfew violation Damaging road signs

Disorderly conduct, creating a disturbance, boisterous conduct and disturbing the peace

Failure to appear for minor traffic offenses

Failure to comply with an officer’s direction

Fare evasion (includes failure to pay turnstile fees)

Fighting, participating in a brawl (if alcohol related, a HQ AFROTC/RRFP waiver is required)

Illegal betting; gambling, operating illegal handbook, raffle, lottery, or punchboard, watching a cockfight

Juvenile non-criminal misconduct: beyond parental control, incorrigible, runaway, truant, or wayward

Liquor or alcoholic beverage: unlawful possession or consumption (if cadet is a minor, reference paragraph 1.5)

Littering or dumping refuse on or near highway or other prohibited place

Loitering

Possession of indecent publications or pictures (other than child pornography or obscenity)

Racing, drag racing, contest for speed

Shoplifting, larceny, petty larceny, or theft (committed under age 14 years and value of stolen goods is $50 or less)

Trespass on property

Unlawful assembly

Vagrancy Vandalism: defacing or injuring public property, if damages are $100 or less

Violation of fireworks law

Violation of fish and game laws

Ok. There are the regs for you. You can make a decision yourself. These are the most current available. (Updated 2008) I highly recommend against hiding anything though.

Some people say "this or that will never come up."

True story. If you become a pilot/nav, you WILL have to have a TS clearance. It can be very smooth or very rough. Campus parking tickets not on my form 35 came up on my TS clearance interview with my investigator. He gave me a chance to explain it before he wrote it in his report. My bro and I share a car however the school does not know that. (Based on license plate #) The tickets defaulted to my account since I had been there longer and not his but he was the one that got them and paid them. Since he later talked to my brother and my brother backed that up it was no issue. But it certainly could have.

Heres the difference in reporting and not reporting. “Being responsible with alcohol” is not a core value. “Integrity First” is. Just remember that.

Side note: Since I started ROTC 4 years ago I have known 2 people to get DUIs. All of them commissioned. One as a pilot. I have also known 3 people who didn't report civils. None of them survived the mandatory disenrollment investigation.

Edited May 25, 2009 by tenguFlyer

[Guest Bender]

"Heres the difference in reporting and not reporting. “Being responsible with alcohol” is not a core value. “Integrity First” is. Just remember that."

Shack. If it had to do with alcohol...'fess up. I can tell you from experience that you have the best chance possible if you do. You don't want to attack this one from the other side.

Other things...I won't make generalizations, but I also don't believe anyone here is a f_cking saint either. I think it's best to use good judgement in what you divuldge or not, but the alcohol should be clean and dry (like your martini.)

When it comes to alcohol, other people probably remember more than you do!

I've played this game a few times. If anyone needs to run something by someone, just shoot a PM.

Good times.

BENDY

[brabus]

Heres the difference in reporting and not reporting. “Being responsible with alcohol” is not a core value. “Integrity First” is. Just remember that.

I'm not condoning not reporting an alcohol-related "incident," all I said was why the hell would you volunteer the info that your roommate had a beer pong tourney and you were in the presence of alcohol? Who gives a shit. There was NOT an incident. Now, had the cops showed up for a noise violation and your friend and his roommate got a ticket, then that's completely different. Why is this difficult to understand?

[Guest tenguFlyer]

I'm not condoning not reporting an alcohol-related "incident," all I said was why the hell would you volunteer the info that your roommate had a beer pong tourney and you were in the presence of alcohol? Who gives a shit. There was NOT an incident. Now, had the cops showed up for a noise violation and your friend and his roommate got a ticket, then that's completely different. Why is this difficult to understand?

But this was an incident. The school wrote his room mate, AND him up for the possession in their room. Obviously the schools policy is if alcohol is in the room and both occupants are under age, they will both be written up. The reg states that school authorities are a reporting body as well. I agree that it sounds stupid. The incident doesn't show a symptom of alcohol abuse by the poster at all. (The reason for the 0 tolerance policy) But the reg is the reg and a cover up is going to make this look a whole lot worse than it actually is. The fact that everyone on here thinks this is stupid is all the more reason he should report it. If everyone here thinks its stupid, his cadre likely are too.

[brabus]

But this was an incident. The school wrote his room mate, AND him up for the possession in their room. Obviously the schools policy is if alcohol is in the room and both occupants are under age, they will both be written up. The reg states that school authorities are a reporting body as well. I agree that it sounds stupid. The incident doesn't show a symptom of alcohol abuse by the poster at all. (The reason for the 0 tolerance policy) But the reg is the reg and a cover up is going to make this look a whole lot worse than it actually is. The fact that everyone on here thinks this is stupid is all the more reason he should report it. If everyone here thinks its stupid, his cadre likely are too.

My bad, I didn't catch that this was in a dorm and he was written up by the school. I thought this was at his apartment and there were no citations given. In that case, I agree, he should say something.

EDIT: It's probably possible he can petition the residents board (or whatever they call it) to get the citation removed from his record since it was his roommate's gig and he had nothing to do with it. When asked why he was there, simple...he freakin lives there, what other choice does he have? Just a thought.

Edited May 27, 2009 by brabus

[Guest tenguFlyer]

My bad, I didn't catch that this was in a dorm and he was written up by the school. I thought this was at his apartment and there were no citations given. In that case, I agree, he should say something.

EDIT: It's probably possible he can petition the residents board (or whatever they call it) to get the citation removed from his record since it was his roommate's gig and he had nothing to do with it. When asked why he was there, simple...he freakin lives there, what other choice does he have? Just a thought.

Hey Brabus no problem. Completely agree with your point about petitioning the school though. That is an option many students always over look. Report it first though. Tell them you are appealing it. They will wait to make a decision on the Form 35 based on the appeals decision. Either way, I can't see why your cadre wouldnt waive this one. The schools 0 tolerance policy is not in line with AETCs.

[Bronco130]

I got cited, underage consumption, reported it, court ordered class, case dismissed, they dismissed whatever form ROTC needed along with it. So yes, report and then fight.