I'm in a dilemna - Pilot or WSO?

[Chuck17]

A non-tactical craft in my eyes is one that doesn't get told, here are your targets, destroy them.

Please dont say that to any PaveLow or Pave Hawk drivers... or any MC-130 guys... or anyone who flew recon in an F-100 or F-4... need I go on?

Chuck

[HerkDerka]

Most civilians would be far more impressed if you told them you flew as a WSO in an F-15E than if you said you flew a C-130. Not saying it is right or wrong, that's just the way people out here think.

Disagree. Civilians know what a pilot is, and that's about it.

HD

[Herk Driver]

Simple answer from my perspective.

I was a non-rated AFSC for several years before going to SUNT at RND. My worst day as a Nav was ALWAYS better than my best day in that job. The job was somewhat fulfilling. I led troops and that was what I wanted to do, but my statement still stands. I continued to pursue my passion and was selected for SUPT.

Once again, my worst day as a pilot has ALWAYS been better than my best day as a Nav. Not knocking Navs, they perform a valuable job and are rarely thanked for what they do, IMHO. It was just not what I wanted to do. It was merely a stepping stone.

If you want to fly, pursue it now. You will not get a second chance given your age.

On a seperate note, I think you may be overestimating the flexibility of the USAF with respect to your comment that they would just make the decision and send you to Whiting based upon you now meeting the FC1 physical requirements. However, you will never know if you don't ask the question. It follows that you will never know if you could be a kick-@ss pilot without putting it out there and going to UPT.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Disagree. Civilians know what a pilot is, and that's about it.

HD

What are you basing that on? I am assuming your opinion is not based on extensive experience interviewing for non-flying civilian management positions. If you are talking about your neighbor who is the Asst Mgr at Kmart knowing what a WSO does, I agree...he doesn't. The problem is, that same guy doesn't really know shit about what you do either. He does know the difference between a fighter and a C-130 and the value he gives those two aircraft in his own mind reflects ZERO knowledge of their mission or their equal importance to the overall team.

Believe me, an F-15E WSO puts down what he did for a living in a resume and they will think he was Maverick or Goose and they won't know the difference between them. As far as the average civilian is concerned both Maverick and Goose fly fighter planes.

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

An E's perspective:

What do you think would be more likely--20 years from now, retiring as a WSO and wishing you had become a pilot? Or retiring as a pilot (of anything) and wishing you had been a WSO?

Once you figure that out, you'll have your answer

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

And IMHO, there's a big difference between being a commander and being a leader. Some are both, but many swing and miss. If you want to be a real leader, I'd say switch to the Marines or Navy. Reason being if you're a Naval aviator or NFO you'll have many leadership opportunities working for our nation's best, since they'll be in your squadron. Not in a different building, in a different squadron, in a different group......

[Fontus]

WSOs are limited to F-15Es, B-1s, and B-52s. Right now, there are lots of F-15E slots (what I want), a few B-1 slots, and some B-52 slots here and there. You can also do a tour with the Navy in the EA-6B, but that's not common.

A non-tactical craft in my eyes is one that doesn't get told, here are your targets, destroy them. I'd be happy with other aircraft too as they all contribute to the destruction of the enemy in the end. I just want to be as close to the pointy tip as possible.

Is WSO training any different than Nav training at Pensacola? Because if its the same thing, you might want to worry about getting one of the non-tactical AFSOC MC-130 slots.

Fontus

[Guest copenhagen]

For a more in-depth analysis, see this:

swordfight!!!! I just spit up some of my lunch laughing...

edit - link added

Edited May 22, 2007 by copenhagen

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Be a pilot. Look outside. Or be the best damn Goose you know how to be.

Agree. I did not mean to muddy the issue but I'm sure I did. I wanted to clarify that it is a big world out here and no one outside the aviation community gives a shit about whether you were a pilot or a WSO.

However, there should be no question on which job to pick if you have a choice.

Pilot first. End of discussion.

[BONE WSO]

If you have any WSO-type questions feel free to PM me.

When I was in Pensacola, before we started API, there was a guy that received an alternate pilot spot, but he was at API as a nav. The week before we started class they pulled him and told him someone fell out and he had his pilot spot, but he did not get to do UPT at Whiting, they sent him to Columbus. I don't think that they will pull you that quickly and reassign you while you are in class. I was reassigned and it is not a quick process, but take that for what its worth.

Edited May 22, 2007 by BONE WSO

[Guest ruckerstud]

Just my two cents, if you want something tactical, GO WSO. Don't take the risk that you will do something stupid on your I-check, hook it, and end up in the TONE, where you can't drop hate. The TONE is a great program, but it is not what you are looking for. Go, be a WSO, drop bombs on bad guys, and know that there are a bunch of pilots who would rather be in your jet.

[Whitman]

Yeah, I think normally there is no chance, I just happen to be in the only place where it can happen easily if the AF wanted it to happen. I already started training, so I don't need an age waiver. At Pensacola, pilots and navs train together for the first 6 weeks. Afterwards, there is a short break in training as pilots get assigned to a training squadron at Whiting Field (40 minutes away) and navs get assigned to a training squadron at Sherman Field (on NAS Pensacola). Right now, I'm in that short break, so the AF could just say, OK, go to Whiting Field instead. I think I have shot because I was designated as a Pilot to begin with, but was switched to Nav because I couldn't meet FCI standards. Those standards have changed, I meet them now, so if they choose they can give me my pilot slot back without PCSing me or taking me out of training or anything...it would be completely seamless. I'd simply go to Whiting instead of Sherman. If I had already started at Sherman, then yeah, I don't see it happening. I just don't want to go to my chain of command and ask them to help me out unless I'm committed to trying to make it happen. I'm still on the fence, but everyone's comments are helping me to think about what my priorities are. Thanks for all your input.

I also think you may be over estimating the flexibility of the AF. Your plan is too logical to happen in the USAF. However, the worst they can say is NO. Make up your mind TODAY and move forward. The clock is ticking. GL

[Whitman]

take 20 minutes and watch this.

https://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/97

Very interesting. I guess it explains why everyone who wants to be a fighter pilot before UPT is happy with whatever aircraft they get, fighter or not.

[HerkDerka]

What are you basing that on?

It doesn't matter. I don't need to interview for jobs to be able to judge what a standard idiot knows about the military.

Your average joe knows what a pilot is. Your average joe knows all pilots fly fighters or airliners.

HD

[Guest ggg308]

I talked to my chain of command yesterday about getting my pilot slot back. They quickly forwarded the request to the ranking AF guy here (an O6). He said it's out of his hands, it's an AFPC issue. I was put in contact with the appropriate people at AFPC...to my surprise my situation is common enough that there is an actual AFI on what to do in these cases. It basically states that if you are awarded a pilot slot and subsequently medically DQed you can still get your pilot slot back if you can obtain an FCI within 1 year of being awarded the pilot slot. Since I got my slot back in Nov '03, I'm basically SOL. The gentleman who specializes in these cases told me the only route I have left is to request a correction of military records and prove that the AF rightly owes me a pilot slot which would be extremely difficult (or I could apply for the active duty UPT board after being a Nav for a couple of years if I can get an age waiver). I was given another contact that specializes in the correction of military records whom I'll talk to today, but it doesn't look promising. Regardless, if this doesn't work out, I'm happy where I'm at and I won't regret not pursuing a pilot slot later. Thanks for all the input, it gave me a lot to think about.

P.S. It seems like I offended some people about my definition of tactical. That's my definition as a complete newbie. I'm sure if I get through this training and obtain some operational experience I'll have a completely different and more educated basis on which to comment on what's tactical and what's not. So please forgive my ignorance.

Thanks again.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

It doesn't matter. I don't need to interview for jobs to be able to judge what a standard idiot knows about the military.

Actually, it does matter. It matters a lot.

It's kind of like a shoe clerk saying he doesn't have to be a pilot to know what being a pilot is like or what goes on in a flying squadron.

It may be a matter if perspective here. You started by talking about interviewing for jobs. You are now talking about the "standard idiot." I would agree, the standard Joe Bag O'Donuts worker guy at the local bar doesn't know crap. Joe VP at Honeywell who is interviewing you for a job where they're planning on paying you a bunch of dough is a different story. The latter will listen to what you say you did but will not likely distinguish pilot/non-pilot when you tell him you were a WSO who flew F-15E Strike Eagles in such and such fighter squadron. In fact, Joe Bag O'Donuts at the local bar will not distinguish the difference either.

Your average joe knows what a pilot is. Your average joe knows all pilots fly fighters or airliners.

True. He will make assumptions when you say you flew F-15Es as a WSO that he would not make if you say you flew C-130s and have to explain they are the big green with four props...and yes, we flew those in Vietnam...no, they aren't Army planes.

The assignment of cool points will go the the WSO.

[HerkDerka]

You started by talking about interviewing for jobs. You are now talking about the "standard idiot."

Ah ha! There's the disconnect. I wasn't referring to interviewing. I'm talking about average citizens.

yes, we flew those in Vietnam...no, they aren't Army planes.

Oh man, if I had a nickel.

HD

[pawnman]

Dude, are you kidding? Flying anything as a pilot is 10 times better then being a passenger in any capacity. A so-called type A personality would know that.

I'm sure all the WSOs out there appreciate being called passengers. I know I did.