Gun Talk

[M2]

I'd pass on the SOCOM 16. A barrel that short on a .308 is deafening. I couldn't enjoy shooting it at all, and if used indoors it will suck pretty bad.

Worse than a M44?

Cheers! M2

[M2]

Bad news for you collectors out there, my C&R license arrived today from the BATFE; so I am now on the hunt!

It took exactly one month from the day I mailed it to the day it arrived, and I am now in the process of putting my binder together (not really that tough). Next I am going to make a bunch of copies of it, then send it to AIM Surplus, J&G Sales, etc. Actually, I have a '33 Tula Mosin Nagant inbound next week, that'll be my first entry unless I find something at the small gun show tomorrow!

And for those of you in the central Texas area, there's a vintage rifle match on 20 December in New Braunfels...

San Antonio Vintage Rifle Match 12/20/2009

To commemorate the 65th anniversary of the Battle of the Bulge (December 1944 - January 1945), the South Texas Marksmanship Training Center will host a Vintage Rifle Match on Sunday, December 20th, 2009, at the Dietz Range in New Braunfels, Texas.

Any original military rifle designed before 1945 is eligible. For example, since the M1 Garand was designed before 1945, that rifle is eligible even if built in 1953. Other eligible rifles would include Enfields, Arisakas, K98k, Swede M96/M38, etc. However, newer rifles like an SKS or M16/AR15 are not eligible.

Minimum requirements are that the rifle is unmodified (not ‘sporterized’), and participants cannot use ‘modern’ competition shooting equipment like rifle scopes. Exception: A WW2 sniper rifle with original style scope is eligible, for example. Spotting scopes are also allowed for adjusting rifle sights to the distance of 200 yards before starting to score shots.

Also allowed are shooting mats (or carpet pieces, blankets, etc.) to use when shooting prone on the concrete slab, and any appropriate military shooting equipment designed or issued before 1945. Contemporary competition shooting jackets are not allowed, although a WW2-style US Army field jacket or USMC shooting coat of the same era are certainly welcome. Eye and hearing protection are both required for safety.

Course of Fire, all at 200 yards:

- Stage One: 10 rounds in 10 minutes, slow fire from the standing position

- Stage Two: 10 rounds from the sitting or kneeling position in two minutes, rapid fire, starting with a loaded magazine (five rounds starting loaded for Enfields, two or eight rounds starting loaded for M1 Garand)

- Stage Three: 20 rounds from the prone position in 20 minutes, slow fire

Although the standard course of fire includes three positions: standing, sitting, and prone, a shooter may opt to fire from one of the available benches. Or even all prone, for example; whatever is most comfortable.

Match fees are $20 for adults and $10 for juniors (under 18). Junior shooters must be accompanied by an adult. Participants provide their own ammunition. Sixty rounds should be enough; 40 rounds for record, and some extra for sighting in.

Dietz Range is located on Range Road, off TX46, about seven miles west of New Braunfels (on IH35), or 16 miles east of US281. Turn onto Range Road and look for the STMTC signs. Plan to arrive around 8AM on Sunday, December 20th, 2009, for sign-in and target setup.

The South Texas Marksmanship Training Center (STMTC), a 501.3c organization, promotes and sponsors firearm safety, marksmanship training, and competitive shooting events for all interested youth and adults. For more information on this match or other STMTC activities, send a private email to user name beeker77.

(Source)

Here's the location on Google maps to make nav'ing easy for anyone who might be able to go!

Cheers! M2

[Guest JollyFlight21]

I'd pass on the SOCOM 16. A barrel that short on a .308 is deafening. I couldn't enjoy shooting it at all, and if used indoors it will suck pretty bad.

I already picked up the SOCOM 16. Not loud enough to cry about. Get better hearing protection or something because it's not too bad. The break on it is awesome.

Only paid $1500 for it too!

M2, if you stopped buying every gun under $300 you saw for like a month, you'd be able to easily buy a SA rifle

[M2]

Picked up a Izhevsk M38 at the show today for $200 out the door with the usual accouterments (sing, ammo pouches, tools and oil can). It has a wartime M38 stock (not like the later ones that had M44 stocks), but it is counterbored. Stiil, M38s are drying up and I needed one for the collection. I used my C&R license and it was a snap, no paperwork other than the receipt I was given. They also kept the copy and will put it on file, so I can order or buy more from the vendor without giving them another copy. It's a great situation, and well worth the $10/year a 03 FFL costs...

And JollyFright, you are correct sir, I could afford a SOCMO 16 if I quit buying all these milsurps; but considering I am getting 6-8 rifles for the price of one, I am happy buying these old Russian rifles. Still, if I save up for anything, it will be a S&W .44 Magnum revolver or a M1918 BAR (I've always wanted one!). One of these days I will snag a SOCOM 16 or a LR308, but for the time being I am chasing the old stuff!

Cheers! M2

[Vandal]

M2, if you stopped buying every gun under $300 you saw for like a month, you'd be able to easily buy a SA rifle

I don't think that is possible for him. Soon M2 will be able to field his own Soviet armed Texan Army.

So, I am selling off my XD and its toys to fund a M4gery build or put toward a M1A Scout Squad. I never shoot the XD so I am letting someone else enjoy it.

I have looked around, seen "The Chart" from m4carbine-dot-net and am still at a loss. I am leaning toward a Spike's Tactical Complete Custom lower and a CMMG or RRA M4 Upper. AIM has some pretty good deals on both CMMG and RRA uppers right now. I am looking for some additional imput, links, deals etc from the Black Rifle crowd on BO.net as you guys have yet to really steer me wrong in weapons purchases.

With the Mil/LEO deal from S&W I may just wait for my girlfriend to EAD and have her buy me a M&P15T

Edited December 14, 2009 by Vandal

[Phil Ken Sebben]

Anyone who has used the S&W 40% off deal know if their shotguns are included? I thought it was a discount on everything, but the note at the top of this page made it seems like it was only on handguns and rifles. Figured I'd ask here before e-mailing the S&W folks. Thanks!

[BigFreddie]

I don't think that is possible for him. Soon M2 will be able to field his own Soviet armed Texan Army.

So, I am selling off my XD and its toys to fund a M4gery build or put toward a M1A Scout Squad. I never shoot the XD so I am letting someone else enjoy it.

I have looked around, seen "The Chart" from m4carbine-dot-net and am still at a loss. I am leaning toward a Spike's Tactical Complete Custom lower and a CMMG or RRA M4 Upper. AIM has some pretty good deals on both CMMG and RRA uppers right now. I am looking for some additional imput, links, deals etc from the Black Rifle crowd on BO.net as you guys have yet to really steer me wrong in weapons purchases.

With the Mil/LEO deal from S&W I may just wait for my girlfriend to EAD and have her buy me a M&P15T

I would suggest getting a .mil account over at DSG Arms and buying the Daniel Defense M4 they are selling. Typically they run about $1400 or so but with a .mil discount it is only $975. Daniel Defense was running a special where you would get a $250 gift card for their merchandise if you bought one of their rifles. Combine those two deals and even my wife would have let me buy one!

BigFreddie

[M2]

Got a 1933 Tula Mosin Nagant from the man in the brown truck today (he even asked if it was a rifle), and tomorrow I am meeting a guy about a Yugo M59. That's three C&R firearms within a week. Ain't life great?!?

Cheers! M2

[JarheadBoom]

I would suggest getting a .mil account over at DSG Arms

Is this as easy as emailing/calling their customer service, filling out a form, and sending a copy of your .mil ID? Or is there more than one hoop to jump through, like letterheads, etc.?

[BigFreddie]

Is this as easy as emailing/calling their customer service, filling out a form, and sending a copy of your .mil ID? Or is there more than one hoop to jump through, like letterheads, etc.?

Super easy. Sign up for a normal account, then either send a copy of your .mil ID or send an email from your .mil account. Here's a link to the instructions: DSG Arms .mil account Once you have your account they show your .mil price on everything. PMags are about $10.50, USGI aluminum w/MagPul follower are $9.50. It looks like they are sold out of the DD M4s but have the DD XV for $960.

BF

[Timbonez]

I don't think that is possible for him. Soon M2 will be able to field his own Soviet armed Texan Army.

So, I am selling off my XD and its toys to fund a M4gery build or put toward a M1A Scout Squad. I never shoot the XD so I am letting someone else enjoy it.

I have looked around, seen "The Chart" from m4carbine-dot-net and am still at a loss. I am leaning toward a Spike's Tactical Complete Custom lower and a CMMG or RRA M4 Upper. AIM has some pretty good deals on both CMMG and RRA uppers right now. I am looking for some additional imput, links, deals etc from the Black Rifle crowd on BO.net as you guys have yet to really steer me wrong in weapons purchases.

With the Mil/LEO deal from S&W I may just wait for my girlfriend to EAD and have her buy me a M&P15T

I see you said you already looked at the famous chart. Some of it can be misleading, and not all manufacturers are on there.

I'm assuming you are going to use this as a plinking rifle and SHTF kind of weapon when the zombie apocalypse arrives. There are several things you're going to want to look at and decide on. The first is the barrel. You're going to find three basic types. 4140 steel, 4150 steel, and stainless steel. The military uses Mil-Spec 11595E, which is a type of 4150. Stainless steel will provide you greater accuracy if you're looking for consistent half-MOA groups (with match grade ammo), but won't last as long as 4150. 4140 is a cost cutting measure used by several companies and a lot of people don't like that. However, that being said, I doubt an normal person is going to wear out a 4140 barrel any quicker than a 4150 under normal use. In any case, if you get a weapon with either 4140 or 4150 barrels they should be chromelined. This is a milspec standard and allows the barrel to be cleaned easier and more importantly won't wear out as fast. There are some manufacturers that use their own lining to preserve the barrel instead of CL. Spike's uses melonite (the same finish you find S&W M&P pistols) on/in some of their barrels. CMMG uses their proprietary WASP coating on/in some of their barrels. I haven't heard anything really on the WASP coating, but I've heard good things about the melonite. When looking at a complete rifle, upper, or barrel it should say if it's CL, melonite, or WASP. Finally is the barrel twist rate. Common flavors are 1:9 and 1:7. The military uses 1:7, and it's what you should use too. This will allow you to stabilize heavier (i.e. longer) bullets. A 1:7 barrel will stabilize about 55-77gr+, whereas a 1:9 will stabilize less than 55 to 69gr. Some people with 1:9 barrels have been lucky and have been able to fire heavier bullets with good accuracy, but most 1:9 barrels will cause heavier ammo to keyhole. My recommendation: 1:7 4150 w/CL, second would be with melonite.

Next is the bolt carrier group (BCG). You basically have two choices a semi-auto carrier or full-auto carrier. Get a full auto-carrier. The difference is that is has a little more weight. This will help in slowing down the whole carrier and help prevent bolt bounce.

Receiver extension. That's the part that sticks out and what the buttstock rides on (sts). They have commercial and mil-spec receiver extensions. There are those that look down their noses and bitch about the commercial receiver extensions because it's not as "strong" as the mil-spec ones. I don't care either way. Just know that if you decided to put a new buttstock on from whatever comes with the weapon, there are different sizes. The commercial one is slightly thicker, so say you buy a Magpul buttstock, they will annotate if it's for a commercial or mil-spec receiver extension. My recommendation: Either one, however the top notch companies will use the mil-spec extension.

Upper receiver. You're looking for M4 feed ramps if your barrel extension is an M4 extension.

The good thing is the top notch companies and most of the mid-Tier ones will use the M4 extension with M4 feed ramps. As for the receiver itself, you'll want forged 70705T6 aluminum that's hard coat anodized.

Lower receiver should be the same specs as the upper.

I suppose you're not building the weapon from scratch, so you're either going to buy a complete rifle or a complete upper and complete lower separately. The lower is defined as the firearm, so that will have to be shipped to a local FFL. A complete upper can be sent to your home directly (no paperwork needed). In any case, here are some of my recommendations for an AR-15.

Colt LE6920: The standard that all others are judged by. I don't own a Colt AR-15 (just two of their 1911s), but they are currently the sole contractor for M4s to the US military. You can find these reasonably priced between $1150-$1300, mostly online.

Spikes Tactical: ST-15 M4. They make great rifles and use mil-spec parts. It can be had for $950 on their website. They also offer the same setup with a gas piston for slightly more.

S&W M&P15A: This wouldn't be my first choice, since they use 4140 steel, but they make a fine rifle that would suit most people's needs. Also, with their 40% off deal you can get it for a good price.

What I personally would do, if I were in your shoes, I would buy a complete lower from spike's tactical Spike's and a complete upper from Bravo Company BCM. You're getting one of the best basic rifles you can find for an outstanding price. It will check every container on "The Chart." If you do go this route, just make sure you select add BCM BCG to the upper so you get a BCG and charging handle with it. It's only $145 more, which is about $20 cheaper than if you were to buy them separately. You'll also have to buy handguards and a carry handle or back up iron sights. Add that all in and you're hovering at around $1000 before shipping, and that'll be cheap.

This was kind of a quick and dirty of what to look for, so here is an in depth link of what to look for when buying an AR-15. This guy will list his recommendations afterwards, which, for the most part, are pretty good. So you want to buy an AR-15, huh? The writer is a former po-po.

[JarheadBoom]

Timbonez, you seem to be the duty expert around here on ARs...

Got an opinion on the Cavalry Arms polymer lower?

[Timbonez]

Timbonez, you seem to be the duty expert around here on ARs...

Got an opinion on the Cavalry Arms polymer lower?

I built one of my ARs with a CavArms lower. They're great and it makes for a light carbine. I thought it would throw off the balance and put all the weight forward on the weapon, but that doesn't seem to be an issue. The only issue I had was that you will need to sand some of the lower. For example, the magwell needed to be sanded to allow magazines to drop free. It wasn't a show stopper, but it did take a little work. Here's a picture of mine. I've since removed the carry handle and replaced it with an ARMS low profile, same plane aperture sight and a CavArms two point sling. I'm saving my pennies to buy an Aimpoint Micro T-1.

The build is a CavArms lower with Rock River Arms LPK and 2-stage trigger, BCM 16" midlength upper with BCM full auto BCG.

If you're looking to build an AR-15 with a CavArms lower, I recommend it.

[BigFreddie]

The biggest question to ask is what you want to do with it? Do you want to plink? Do you want to varmint hunt and shoot really small groups? As soon as you answer that you will be on your way to knowing what gun to buy...

As for standard, hard use plinking and general home-defense, the zombies are coming in waves, I really like BCM right now for ARs. They are making some great uppers and recently started making lowers. They have great attention to detail when it comes to the small things that set the top-tier AR makers apart from the hobby guns. You could put one together for minimal cost. $350 for the lower, $425 upper, $140 for BCG, $22 for charging handle, and $29 for a Magpul handguard - $966 before sights ($55 for Magpul MBUS) and mags.

Here's my $.02 on the matter. Right now the Daniel Defense XV from DSG Arms with their military discount is a GREAT buy. No real hassle with buying one - their DD M4, if they get more at the same price is a better value. These would both last you a long time unless you are a very serious shooter burning through thousands of rounds every year. The DD XV is $960 out the door - all you need to do is get a .mil account and add ammo! DD XV from DSG - this probably the better gun spec wise than the BCM or Colt only for the fact it has a "cold hammer forged" barrel which is the new rage lately. From what I've read (no proof yet) is that they last longer and are slightly more accurate than a conventionally rifled barrel.

Another thing to think about is possible resale. If, for some reason, you want to sell or are forced to sell, buying a Colt is a wise decision. The biggest issue here is name recognition - darn near everyone has heard of Colt and knows who they are. While BCM and Daniel Defense make guns that are arguably on par with Colt, very few people have heard of them and would likely buy a Colt first. And from what I've seen, as long as you don't buy a Colt at the peak of panic buying you will likely be able to sell it for what you paid for it. Here is a place to look for them:

Clyde Armory

And my last warning... ARs are addictive. Most people I know don't have just one...

BF

[JarheadBoom]

Only reason I asked about the poly lower is because someone I know is selling one (never built/used) for a good price. An AR isn't in the budget right now... but maybe I'll pick-up the lower just to have it.

[Vandal]

Timbonez, you sir are a wealth of knowledge.

Since my posting I have done a lot more research and will be buying the Spike's Complete lower from Brownell''s for $243 (my Old Man gets the dealer discount) and the Middy 16" Bravo Company upper, BCG and GunFighter Mod3 charging handle with a Troy or LaRue rear BUIS, still deciding on hand guards, probably M4 style for now. The purpose behind the rifle is SHTF and the Zombie hoards that are sure to eventually take place. I am not to worried about putting 30 rounds in a dime sized hole. I could care less about getting a Colt.

Unfortunately as much as I would love the DD guns I am not Mil anymore so I don't get the discounts and my girlfriend EADs 28 Feb, don't really want to wait that long. Once my XD sells I am placing the orders.

[Timbonez]

Timbonez, you sir are a wealth of knowledge.

Since my posting I have done a lot more research and will be buying the Spike's Complete lower from Brownell''s for $243 (my Old Man gets the dealer discount) and the Middy 16" Bravo Company upper, BCG and GunFighter Mod3 charging handle with a Troy or LaRue rear BUIS, still deciding on hand guards, probably M4 style for now. The purpose behind the rifle is SHTF and the Zombie hoards that are sure to eventually take place. I am not to worried about putting 30 rounds in a dime sized hole. I could care less about getting a Colt.

Unfortunately as much as I would love the DD guns I am not Mil anymore so I don't get the discounts and my girlfriend EADs 28 Feb, don't really want to wait that long. Once my XD sells I am placing the orders.

Sweet. BCM and Spike's both make some high quality stuff. The BCM middy I showed on the CavArms lower wears CavArms M4 handguards for midlengths. They work well.

And to piggy back off of BigFreddie, DD also makes great stuff. You can't go wrong with a lot of manufacturers: Colt, KAC, BCM, Spike's, DD, Larue, Noveske, LMT, and there are others that I'm not really thinking of right now.

Jarhead, even though it's not in the budget, if you are considering a CavArms lower I would get it. My experience as well as many others has been very positive.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Timbonez

[M2]

This pretty well sums up how I feel about guns...

Merry Christmas, y'all!

Cheers! M2

[Beaver]

I'm selling my HK USP Compact .40. It's got about 50 rounds through it. $500...PM me if interested.

Linky

[M2]

This looks interesting as well...

Big Daddy

(Sorry, couldn't get the video to embed)

It's the new Nicolas Cage movie called Kick-Ass being released in the spring...apparantly it's based on a comic book.

I hope it's better than Ghost Rider, Cage is better when he's not trying to be so serious and I couldn't get over that lousy toupee he was wearing in that movie!

Cheers! M2

Edited December 24, 2009 by M2
Damned disabled embedding!

[brabus]

I want to get my wife a gun for personal protection...especially since I'll be gone for a year coming up soon. I have an arsenal in the house, but she's not real adept to using an AR, 12 GA, etc. She even doesn't like my .40 Glock. So, I'm thinking a .38 revolver or something along those lines is best. She doesn't have to deal with a slide or a larger round like a .40 or .45. My only concern is 5/6 rounds vs a 10+ rd mag. What are your guy's opinions on the amount of rds carried for her and any recommendations?

[Guest JollyFlight21]

I want to get my wife a gun for personal protection...especially since I'll be gone for a year coming up soon. I have an arsenal in the house, but she's not real adept to using an AR, 12 GA, etc. She even doesn't like my .40 Glock. So, I'm thinking a .38 revolver or something along those lines is best. She doesn't have to deal with a slide or a larger round like a .40 or .45. My only concern is 5/6 rounds vs a 10+ rd mag. What are your guy's opinions on the amount of rds carried for her and any recommendations?

My wife likes shooting, but she's not proficient. I'm sending her to a class at Front Sight here in Vegas for a two day defensive handgun course. If you life in the area, I highly recommend them. We get lucky in Rescue and they send us to some pretty sweet training courses, so I thought my wife could benefit from something similar.

[Timbonez]

I am going to bump this thread instead of starting a new one. I am the proud owner of a Springfield xD45 and it is my daily carry weapon. Now I am looking into getting a entry level 1911 of some kind.

Currently, I am looking at the Taurus PT1911 Stainless. I like the features it has ambi-safety, extended beavertail, Heine Straight 8 sights and the list goes on and I can pick on up locally for about $580, MSRP is $800. Is there anyone on the boards who has one and what are your impressions. Also, is there anything on the market that has comparable features and pricing?

Thanks in advance.

Vandal

One of my 1911s is a Taurus (duo-tone). The features you want you'll only find on the Taurus in that price range. It's a good gun and I've had no problems with it. However, if you have a little more money to spend, I would buy a Colt (personally), Kimber, Springfield Armory, or Smith & Wesson.

[Vandal]

Timbonez, I have been rocking a Kimber Stainless II since 25 Jan 09. No issues to date and has replaced my XD as a carry gun. The XD is actually being sold soon to help fund my rifle project.

[Timbonez]

Timbonez, I have been rocking a Kimber Stainless II since 25 Jan 09. No issues to date and has replaced my XD as a carry gun. The XD is actually being sold soon to help fund my rifle project.

Heh, nice. I guess I didn't read the date on the post. My bad. Good luck with the rifle build.