Gun Talk

[Timbonez]

What a cool dad you are, M2. That sucks about Camp Bullis. Looks like you're going to have to buy an evil black rifle.

[HossHarris]

We experienced yet another care of pure buffoonery there that was the last straw. Go to the Bullethole at your own risk, but my fat self won't be seen there again.

Can you expand? I thought that joint was a little sketchy too, but I chalked it up to cold, rainy, late winter evening.

[slacker]

About the only problems we had was one shell extractor failure and several failure to feeds. Several rounds were actually bent at the bullet from the bolt trying to load it.

What kind of ammo were you shooting?

[M2]

Can you expand? I thought that joint was a little sketchy too, but I chalked it up to cold, rainy, late winter evening.

Gladly. Although I don’t go there often (maybe 4-5 times a year, if that), almost every time I’ve been I’ve witnessed numerous safety violations. The last time I went, with our Canadian exchange officer, we were checking targets and I turned around to witness some jackass on the line handling his firearm. I yelled at him and he looked at me like I was crazy, but at least he was smart enough to put the pistol down as my next move was going to be to draw mine (I had my XD on me). That same day, while shooting on the 10 yard line, a different idiot walks out at the far end of the pistol range without ever calling the range cold! I had to yell “cease fire, cease fire!” before someone got shot.

Also, a gentleman I work with, who is a really nice guy and who buys an annual family pass there, has had three instances where the owner and employees have yelled at him for picking up his own brass (he obviously reloads). For some reason the “management” feels that they own whatever brass hits the ground there, and confronts anyone who tries to collect theirs.

Previously I have seen too many gang-banger wannabes at the Bullethole and no attempts to run the range. I’ve seen rapid fire on the pistol range (prohibited) and illegal weapons, and the owner just doesn’t care. The place has gone downhill ever since the original owner passed away, and even members of his immediate family have quit over the way his wife has run the place since he died. There have been instances of people being shot there (one fatally that I know of) and I am just not going to risk my neck or even more so my son’s life to shoot at such a poorly run and unsafe range.

As I stated, Blackhawk is less than ten miles south of the Bullethole, only costs $125 a year for an unlimited family membership (half of what the Bullethole charges), and is professionally run.

Cheers! M2

What kind of ammo were you shooting?

This...

It was all Walmart had. I am going to try something else...

Cheers! M2

[slacker]

This...

It was all Walmart had. I am going to try something else...

Cheers! M2

I won't say that that stuff is junk, but I've had better luck with Remington Gold or Remington Thunderbolts. The boxes of loose ammo or the buckets seem to have more feeding problems, I've had them bend on me too.

Got to love .22's.

As far a the range problems, luckily my buddy has a farm with some plinking targets, so when I take the kid, there are no other morons around to try and kill us. Great way to spend a few hours.

[BigFreddie]

Gladly. Although I don’t go there often (maybe 4-5 times a year, if that), almost every time I’ve been I’ve witnessed numerous safety violations. The last time I went, with our Canadian exchange officer, we were checking targets and I turned around to witness some jackass on the line handling his firearm. I yelled at him and he looked at me like I was crazy, but at least he was smart enough to put the pistol down as my next move was going to be to draw mine (I had my XD on me). That same day, while shooting on the 10 yard line, a different idiot walks out at the far end of the pistol range without ever calling the range cold! I had to yell “cease fire, cease fire!” before someone got shot.

Also, a gentleman I work with, who is a really nice guy and who buys an annual family pass there, has had three instances where the owner and employees have yelled at him for picking up his own brass (he obviously reloads). For some reason the “management” feels that they own whatever brass hits the ground there, and confronts anyone who tries to collect theirs.

Previously I have seen too many gang-banger wannabes at the Bullethole and no attempts to run the range. I’ve seen rapid fire on the pistol range (prohibited) and illegal weapons, and the owner just doesn’t care. The place has gone downhill ever since the original owner passed away, and even members of his immediate family have quit over the way his wife has run the place since he died. There have been instances of people being shot there (one fatally that I know of) and I am just not going to risk my neck or even more so my son’s life to shoot at such a poorly run and unsafe range.

As I stated, Blackhawk is less than ten miles south of the Bullethole, only costs $125 a year for an unlimited family membership (half of what the Bullethole charges), and is professionally run.

Cheers! M2

The last time I was there might have been 2006 or 2007. It wasn't too bad then. Seemed like they had a range officer walking up and down the line keeping a pretty tight ship in regards to safety.

If anyone happens to be stuck out in Del Rio I can give the info on the best shooting range out there - unlimited access, (was) $80 a year, 2x 25 yard pistol bays (partially covered), 100 yard and 200 yard rifle ranges. Of course, like 90% of other ranges, it was on about 4 mile final to Laughlin....

BF

[HU&W]

M2, I've had really good luck with the Federal .22 Walmart sells for around 3 cents per round. My favorite is CCI, but it is expensive. Other than the (significant) safety issues, some of things you complain about that range are the things that make unmanaged ranges fun.

Also, if anyone is going to Sheppard, the ranges here are excellent. $40 for a 1 year unlimited access family/+guests membership and a full slew of shooting options.

[cragspider]

Since everybody is putting in inputs to good ranges located near bases I will throw out that the Abilene Gun Club has a good deal for military members. $35 for the year for the whole family. Plus if you have family that comes in they get in for free. Has to pistol bays, and numerous back stops for the rifle. Open during the weekend and you get the combo for the gate so you can go during the week if you want.

M2, I have had good luck with the 550 count boxes of Federal and Winchester. Some jam but I think its do to the fact that I'm shooting fast.

[Timbonez]

Since everybody is putting in inputs to good ranges located near bases I will throw out that the Abilene Gun Club has a good deal for military members. $35 for the year for the whole family. Plus if you have family that comes in they get in for free. Has to pistol bays, and numerous back stops for the rifle. Open during the weekend and you get the combo for the gate so you can go during the week if you want.

M2, I have had good luck with the 550 count boxes of Federal and Winchester. Some jam but I think its do to the fact that I'm shooting fast.

Is that the North range? I'll have to get in on that.

[JarheadBoom]

Having a hard time deciding between a 1911 and an AR-15 build for my next firearm investment...

Decision made about 10 minutes ago...

[Timbonez]

Decision made about 10 minutes ago...

Congrats! Let us know how the build goes. What LPK are you going to use?

[cragspider]

Is that the North range? I'll have to get in on that.

Yeah that's the North range. Just make sure you go on a weekend first to get your membership. I have been told that Jones county sheriffs will stop by during the week if they hear the guns to check membership. But haven't been during the week. Maybe once I get back I will head out there during the day.

[JarheadBoom]

Congrats! Let us know how the build goes. What LPK are you going to use?

I haven't decided on a LPK yet, but Stag and Rock River are in the lead, based on my initial research.

The first one will be a 16" barrel, mid-length gas system, basic rifle. I can't afford all the bells & whistles, and I have no experience with any of 'em anyway - all my M-16 trigger time from the other service was with the M-16A2. Not sure yet what I'll do with the second lower; my wife told me after I ordered 2 lowers that she's not interested in her own rifle. I might just keep it in a safe place for later.

I also haven't decided whether I want to build my own upper, or just buy one pre-built (BravoCompany has a nice one I've been eyeing up for a while).

[Timbonez]

I haven't decided on a LPK yet, but Stag and Rock River are in the lead, based on my initial research.

The first one will be a 16" barrel, mid-length gas system, basic rifle. I can't afford all the bells & whistles, and I have no experience with any of 'em anyway - all my M-16 trigger time from the other service was with the M-16A2. Not sure yet what I'll do with the second lower; my wife told me after I ordered 2 lowers that she's not interested in her own rifle. I might just keep it in a safe place for later.

I also haven't decided whether I want to build my own upper, or just buy one pre-built (BravoCompany has a nice one I've been eyeing up for a while).

Sweet deal, Jarhead. For two of my LPKs I went with Rock River Arms. One of them works just fine and has their two stage trigger. The other one (w/single stage trigger), however, does not pass the function check. They made the trigger out of spec, so the weapon is unsafe when firing. I swapped one of my other AR's trigger group to see if it would work and I had no problems. I have yet to buy another trigger for that AR-15, but it won't be RRA. I've seen on other forums that RRA has a greater preponderance of making out of spec parts for their LPKs. I'd look at Stag, Daniel Defense, or Colt. My third build has a Colt LPK, and you definitely pay a premium for it. It also doesn't come with a trigger.

EDIT: Crag, thanks for the info. I'll go up there this weekend or next.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Timbonez

[Guest Snow]

Any home defense shotgun recommendations?

I have been looking at the Mossberg 500 series or the Remington 870 tactical.

Are those good choices or am I missing some other solid buys??

[M2]

All I have to say is...fucking hell! It is not fucking hard to adjust AK sights, and they are trying to tell me the Afghans didn't even know how to do it?!? YGBFSM!

Cheers! M²

U.S. Contractors Failed to Train Afghan Police to Adjust AK-47 Sights

David Goldstein | McClatchy Newspapers

last updated: April 15, 2010 09:56:21 PM

WASHINGTON For several years, Afghan police recruits under the tutelage of private U.S. government contractors couldn't understand why their marksmanship never improved.

The answer became clear earlier this year. Italian contractors also helping to train Afghan volunteers showed them that the sights on their AK-47s and M-16s had never been adjusted.

"We're paying somebody to teach these people to shoot these weapons, and nobody ever bothered to check their sights?" Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill of Missouri said, after relating that story at a hearing Thursday.

To McCaskill, who chaired the hearing of the Senate Contracting Oversight panel, it illustrated why the U.S. has spent more than $6 billion on private contractors, but the police-training program remains rife with problems.

"It is an unbelievable, incompetent story of contracts," she said. "For eight years we have been supposed training the police in Afghanistan. We've flushed $6 billion."

Improving and expanding the 90,000-man Afghan National Police to maintain stability and protect the population is crucial to the Obama administration's plan to begin reducing the American military presence in July 2011.

But the training contracts have been plagued by mismanagement. Investigations by the Government Accounting Office and the inspector generals from the Departments of State and Defense have sharply criticized both the contractors and the government oversight. They detailed a lack of supervision and controls over spending, among other failures.

"Just about everything that could go wrong here has gone wrong," Defense Department Inspector General Gordon Heddell told the subcommittee.

Moreover, the job of an Afghan police officer is exceedingly dangerous. The death rate has risen from about two dozen per month in recent years to about 125 each month, Heddell said.

The most pressing issue is that the program is now in contract limbo. Last month, the GAO blocked the Army from awarding a $1 billion police training contract to Xe Services, the company which used to be known as Blackwater and which has its own troubled government contracting history.

Agency auditors said that the Army unfairly excluded other potential bidders and agreed with a protest by DynCorp International Inc. DynCorp has had a $1.2 billion training contract from the State Department.

McCaskill asked a Defense official how the Pentagon intended to provide the police training in light of the bidding problems.

"We don't have a final answer on that," said David Sedney, deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Afghanistan, Pakistan and Central Asia.

"That's unacceptable," she said.

"I'm saying we haven't decided the final form of what we're going to do," Sedney said.

He said that the program has been "under-resourced and under-prioritized. The priority for this administration has been to refocus our effort."

McCaskill's colleagues on the subcommittee were equally dismayed. Sen. Scott Brown, a Republican of Massachusetts and the ranking member, asked who was "ultimately accountable" for the failings.

"There's been very little training and now we're looking to extend it," he said. "We're behind the eight-ball."

[M2]

Uh-oh! And of course they had to use his old Navy photo...

APNewsBreak: Feds Indict ex-Blackwater president

RALEIGH, N.C. – The former president of Blackwater Worldwide was charged Friday with using straw purchases to stockpile automatic weapons at the security firm and filing false documents to cover up gifts given to the King of Jordan.

Gary Jackson, 52, who left the company last year in a management shakeup, was charged along with four other former workers, according to the federal indictment.

The prosecution opens a new front of the government's oversight of the sullied security company. Several of the company's contractors have previously been charged with federal crimes for their actions in war zones, but the company's executives have so far weathered a range of investigations.

Blackwater has been trying to rehabilitate its image since a 2007 shooting in Baghdad left 17 people dead, outraged the Iraqi government and led to a federal charges against several Blackwater guards — accusations later thrown out of court after a judge found prosecutors mishandled evidence. Around the time that Jackson left the company, Blackwater changed its name to Xe Services.

The charges against Jackson include a conspiracy to violate firearms laws, false statements, possession of a machine gun and possession of an unregistered firearm. Also indicted were former Blackwater general counsel Andrew Howell, 44; former executive vice president Bill Mathews, 44; former procurement vice president Ana Bundy, 45; and, 65-year-old Ronald Slezak, a former weapons manager.

The case stems in part from a raid conducted by federal agents at the company's headquarters in Moyock in 2008 that seized 22 weapons, including 17 AK-47s.

Blackwater officials enticed the local sheriff's office to pose as the purchaser of 34 automatic weapons that would be stored on the company's campus, something prosecutors called a straw purchase, according to the indictment. The Camden County Sheriff's Office provided blank letterhead to the company, which then used the stationery to prepare letters ordering weapons.

Federal law prohibits licensed firearms dealers such as Blackwater to have more than two of the same style of weapon. Law enforcement agencies can have fully automatic weapons.

Prosecutors also said company officials, hoping to land a lucrative overseas contract, presented the King of Jordan with five guns as gifts then realized that they were unable to account for where the weapons went. To cover it up, they falsified four federal documents "to give the appearance that the weapons had been purchased by them as individuals," according to the indictment.

The U.S. attorney's office in Raleigh said the indictment should not suggest any wrongdoing on the part of the Kingdom of Jordan or any of its officials. The office said it was grateful for the assistance the nation has provided for the investigation.

Prosecutors also focused on Blackwater's supply of short-barrel rifles, which dealers must register. The company purchased 227 short barrels and installed them on long rifles without registering them, and officials shipped the weapons with the barrels detached so that they could be re-assembled overseas without facing the charge of exporting regulated weapons, according to the indictment.

Kenneth Bell, an attorney for Jackson, said the former executive was a true American hero. Jackson spent two decades in the military as a Navy SEAL.

"These charges are false," Bell said. "He will defend himself, as he defended this country, in what he calls the greatest justice system in the world."

Each of the defendants was charged as part of a conspiracy to violate firearms laws. Mathews also was charged with possession of a machine gun and possession of an unregistered weapon. Howell was charged with two counts of obstruction of justice. Slezak was charged with false statements. Bundy was charged with obstruction of justice.

The maximum penalty for each charge ranges from 5-10 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.

James Sweeney, an attorney for Mathews, said his client was shocked and disappointed by the indictment, which he called "a persecution born of political purpose." Pat Woodward, an attorney for Slezak, said he looks forward to his client's vindication.

Xe spokesman Mark Corallo said the company has fully cooperated with the federal investigation. He declined further comment. Jordanian officials could not be immediately reached for comment.

One of the 2005 agreements viewed later by the AP says the weapons were to be kept under "lock and key" and doesn't describe whether Blackwater would use the guns. Camden County Sheriff Tony Perry said at the time that his department only used the AK-47s in shooting practice at Blackwater and that none of his 19 deputies were qualified to use them.

Blackwater has said federal authorities knew about the weapons for years and that investigators got a complete look at the company's cache in 2005 after two employees were fired.

In a 2008 interview with the AP, Jackson and other Blackwater executives said the company provided the local Camden County sheriff's office a place to store weapons, calling the gesture a "professional courtesy."

"We gave them a big safe so that they can store their own guns," Jackson said at the time. Added then-executive vice president Bill Mathews: "We give stuff to police departments all over the country, and we take particularly good care of our home police departments."

Company officials, including both Jackson and Howell, downplayed the raid during the interview. Jackson said some of the 16 uniformed officers who came to serve the warrant were embarrassed by the event and said agents had to stop at Blackwater's front gate to get passes to come onto the company's sprawling campus in northeastern North Carolina.

"As a hypothetical, one would think that, if you were going on a raid, you'd take your Kevlar and your weapon," Howell said to laughter from other executives.

___

Associated Press Writers Emery Dalesio in Raleigh and Matt Apuzzo in Washington contributed to this report.

[Odium]

It will be interesting to see how this turns out:

AF Times Story

Pentagon to adopt uniform rules on guns

By Anne Gearan - The Associated Press

Posted : Friday Apr 16, 2010 12:19:10 EDT

WASHINGTON — The Pentagon will adopt a broad policy governing how privately owned guns can be carried or stored at military installations following the shooting deaths of 13 people last year at Fort Hood, Texas.

A disgruntled Army doctor is charged in the deaths.

Maj. Nidal Hasan had little or no access to military firearms in his job as a psychologist, but was able to buy two handguns and bring them onto the base.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates ordered this week that a new comprehensive policy be developed to cover all branches of the military and its bases and offices. The standardized policy would replace or buttress a patchwork of regulations adopted by each service or individual military installation.

The weapons policy is among recommendations for security and administrative upgrades released by the Pentagon on Thursday. Gates ordered that an interim weapons policy be in force by June, and a permanent one is due early next year.

The new policy is expected to mirror restrictions already in place at some military installations that, for example, require guns brought onto a base to be registered with military police.

Gates also ordered changes in the way tips and information in criminal investigations are shared, and directed an internal review of personnel policies on health care records. An outside panel said those policies can prevent higher-ups from knowing about behavior or other problems that might be red flags.

Also Thursday, Sens. Joseph Lieberman, I-Conn., and Susan Collins R-Maine, said they will send subpoenas to the Pentagon and Justice Department if the administration doesn’t provide more information on the Fort Hood case by Monday.

Lieberman and Collins — the two top senators on the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee — launched their investigation into the Fort Hood shootings five months ago. They claim the administration is stonewalling their requests for access to FBI agents, documents or Hasan’s personnel file from the Defense Department.

“Disclosure of some of the material you have requested could compromise the pending prosecution,” administration lawyers wrote to the two senators this week.

The administration said it does not want to generate pretrial publicity that could taint a jury pool or make witnesses reluctant to cooperate, and wants to avoid a barrage of defense lawyer requests that could force the government to reveal information it wants to save for a criminal trial.

[M2]

Saw this on the news and it made my sphincter flinch!

Between USC 18 Sec 930 and the policies of risk-adverse, promotion-focused commanders, it is pretty much impossible to find a fair firearm policy at an Air Force Base these days. All this is doing is preventing law-abiding servicemembers from keeping weapons in their cars in states were it is allowed (such as Texas, where a CHL isn't even require to do so).

The joke is, nutbags such as Hasan are just going to ignore these "restrictions" before committing their crimes...

[cragspider]

Well this will be interesting how the new "gun" policy plays out. M2 your right about one thing, the people who want to commit the crimes will do it anyway. Just look at VT, Columbine, Ft. Hood, and any other mass shooting in a "Gun Free" zone. All it does is hurt the Law-abiding members who want to carry once they leave base. I was hoping to be able to at least carry to and from the base housing once I move to Laughlin this summer. But the way this looks I doubt that will happen now.

[Stunna]

Any home defense shotgun recommendations?

I have been looking at the Mossberg 500 series or the Remington 870 tactical.

Are those good choices or am I missing some other solid buys??

Looks like this news overrode your question, but...

I'm very happy with my Mossberg 500. Bought it used a couple years ago. 18 1/2" both pistol grip and standard stock. Never pur put the pistol grip on, and never added any of the upgrades to it, before I pcs'ed out to Japan, but I always felt a little safer having it in the closet, and knowing the wife could operate it if needed...

Heard good things about the 870's, but I've never used them. If I recall correctly, they're pretty similar, and it may just come down to price/ which one you like the feel of better.

[BigFreddie]

Looks like this news overrode your question, but...

I'm very happy with my Mossberg 500. Bought it used a couple years ago. 18 1/2" both pistol grip and standard stock. Never pur put the pistol grip on, and never added any of the upgrades to it, before I pcs'ed out to Japan, but I always felt a little safer having it in the closet, and knowing the wife could operate it if needed...

Heard good things about the 870's, but I've never used them. If I recall correctly, they're pretty similar, and it may just come down to price/ which one you like the feel of better.

I would make sure which ever one you get make sure the trigger guard/group is not made of plastic. I've seen Mossberg 500s completely disabled because the plastic parts in the trigger group were all broken. Who the hell puts plastic parts in the trigger group that can fail and disable the gun? I got to shoot an Air Force shotgun for qualification last week - it was a "newer" Remington 870 - the combat system version with a pistol grip stock, some rails, an extended tube, and rifle sights. It too had a trigger guard made of plastic - not sure about plastic parts in the actual trigger group though.

Of the two shotguns mentioned, I prefer the 870. The safety is near the trigger group not on the top back of the receiver which always seemed slightly out of place to me.

BF

[M2]

I've got numerous rounds through my Mossy 500 Persuader and have been very happy with it...

I've got a SureFire 6P mounted and a cheap-o BSA laser on top (for shits and grins). My usually loads are 3" Magnum 00-buckshot rounds, perfect for any HD situations but I have stone on the front and sides of my house so I have never worried much about over-penetration. It was never really a big concern in the first place as if there is an intruder in the house I have far greater priorities...

Cheers! M2

[Vandal]

You can't really go wrong with a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. My 870 has been bulletproof since I bought it in 2006 and is my HD gun. My 20ga. Mossy 500 was my grandfather's and he bought it new well before I was born in '85. Lot's of history in both weapons with a well earned reputation for reliability.

[M2]

Mossy 500 was my grandfather's and he bought it new well before I was born in '85....

Fucking hell, you weren't even born until 1985?!? Thanks for making me feel even older than usual...

Cheers! M2