Gun Talk

[M2]

Dang, I was doing pretty good until I spotted one of these at the gun show for $645 + tax...

Arsenal SGL20 (Saiga)

From the combined effort of Legion Ltd, the custom shop of the legendary Izhmash Factory in Russia, and Arsenal,

Inc. of Las Vegas, Nevada comes a new SGL20 (Saiga) rifle in 7.62x39 caliber. Initially manufactured by Legion Ltd

in Russia and remanufactured by Arsenal, Inc. in the United States, the new SGL20 rifle has everything that

collectors and shooter have been looking for. Hand-select premium components, custom-shop-like attention to

details by Legion Ltd, and Arsenal, Inc.’s highest standards of workmanship, give this rifle its superior quality.

Arsenal, Inc. remanufactures the SGL20 rifles in the United States with 922r compliant parts and fills them with

features not seen on any other factory Saiga rifles. Performing the most difficult modifications to achieve, Arsenal,

Inc. has done a substantial work for the customer. The end result is the highest quality SGL20 rifle with the most

desired features which have not been available before. Every unit is laser sighted and test fired. Targets are

included with most of the rifles.

To make this rifle the perfect Russian AK available in the market, Arsenal, Inc. has taken all the necessary steps to

ensure all the components and features are true to its original configuration.

The receiver of SGL20 rifle has the proper markings on both sides without any extra commercial markings,

including the legendary Izhmash Factory logo, the upward pointing arrow in triangle. The markings on both sides of

the receiver are done with the correct font type and size and placed in their proper locations. The receiver of

SGL20 features proper magazine dimples on both sides and original “X” and “Y” shaped reinforcement stampings.

On the right side, it has correctly positioned notches for the safety lever, marked with letters “S” and “F” and no

additional openings at the bottom forward portion of the receiver.

The components and features on the new SGL20 rifle resemble true Russian AK rifle, including the safety lever with

correct shape and properly positioned dimple, the correct trigger guard with magazine catch and the correct bullet

guide enabling SGL20 to accept any standard AK magazine, the 1000 meter rear sight left, the highest quality

Arsenal, Inc. double stage fire control group (hammer, trigger and disconnector), original Arsenal, Inc. mil-spec

polymer furniture, including the handguards, pistol grip, and the original Warsaw pact length buttstock, the retainer

for lower handguard, the correct gas tube, original gas block with the correct vent holes and a guide hole for the

cleaning rod, correct AK-74 type front sight block with 24x1.5mm right-hand threads and bayonet lug.

Arsenal, Inc. is offering the new SGL20 rifles in 6 different configurations, including 3 assemblies with Black, Plum,

and OD Green furniture with original Warsaw pact length buttstock and 3 assemblies with Black, Plum, and OD

Green furniture with extended NATO length buttstock.

Essentially it's a AK-103 with 922r compliance parts on it. It also doesn't have the folding stock of the AK-103, but beyond that they are the same.

Between this and the Savage Edge .308 I picked up yesterday, I had better hide the VISA card receipts from the wife for the next few weeks!

Cheers! M2

[Nineline]

For those who carry concealed out there, what's your preferred carry piece and ammo? I'm relatively new to the CCW scene, and my current pistol is a Glock 26 9mm with 13 rds of 147gr Winchester Ranger SXT +P. I am curious what all of you other guys got, since you probably have a lot more experience carrying than me.

-9-

[Timbonez]

Anyone ever shoot an FN 5.7? I was getting the serious upsale by a guy at the gun show. It felt pretty good, but a little on the high side of my $ range. I think I'm leaning to the S&W MP .45 right now, the guy said he'd make me a great deal on the FN. It just seams like a small caliber to me. I guess I need to do some reading.

I've never shot a Five-SeveN, but the ammo available to non-LEO/Mil isn't the type designed for the weapon. It was meant to fire a round capable of piercing your standard pistol body armor, so it can't be had by civilians. Royal mentioned ammo prices, and the fact is that it's very comparable to .45 ACP prices. That shouldn't be an issue. What do you want to do with the pistol? It would make a half-decent self defense handgun because it's capacity overshadows your typical self defense cartridges, it's very light recoiling, but the energy deposit is lacking. It's probably best suited as a novelty firearm or range only gun. If we had access to the armor piercing rounds and there was an impending Red Dawn-esque threat, then maybe I would go with that weapon.

You're better off with the M&P 45 for an all around gun. I used to have one with the 4" barrel and standard 10rd capacity, and I thought it was great. I sold it because I just don't like polymer handguns, but other than my distaste for plastic it was an outstanding performer. The exact model I had was this: linky. No useless thumb safety, no magazine disconnect (I'm personally indifferent about this feature on any firearm), and no weapon lock.

ETA: M2, I hear Arsenal makes a quality AK type rifle, which is better than your typical off the shelf surplus weapon.

Nineline, as long as your pistol is reliable, it fits well in your hand, and you're halfway decent shooting it then it's a good choice. Glocks are good handguns, and the 26 is a nice size for those who don't want to carry a full size weapon. I conceal carry different handguns at different times, but the calibers are .38 special/.357 magnum, 9mm, and .45 ACP. Currently it's an M9 Beretta because that's what I've been practicing with most lately.

Edited July 5, 2010 by Timbonez

[M2]

-9-

There are many discussions concerning CCW in the 83 pages of this thread. I for one love my XD45, but I have also had good experiences with the two Taurus 9mm semi-autos I picked up (a PT111 and PT709 Slim). But I am one of those old school guys who prefer the larger, slower .45ACP over the 9mm, but as T-bone said, find what will do the job for you.

The Winchester Ranger SXT +P is good ammo, it's got the current version of the Black Talon bullet. I would only recommend that you shoot a few through your Glock if you haven't already. Never use a self-defense round without knowing how it works in your weapon...

Otherwise, it sound like a good set-up. Get some ball ammo and some range time under your belt, there is nothing better than practice. I'd also recommend trying an IDPA or some kind of other competitive shooting match. You don't have to worry about being competitive, just go out and have a great time, be safe and enjoy the training! It's much better than standing at a table taking all the time in the world to aim and shoot which will be unrealistic if you ever find yourself in a self-defense situation!

Cheers! M2

[Timbonez]

I just got a call from Novak's and they're done with my Hi Power. I should have it tomorrow. Damage was $723... almost as much as the pistol. Ouch!

[brickhistory]

On-line ammo?

Ok, I've apparently exhausted the supply of .44 special (4 boxes of 50) in a 50 NM radius. Having checked, I think, the applicable Virginia laws, I believe I can order ammo and have it delivered to my home.

Any reputable/proven vendors used by anyone here?

[Royal]

On-line ammo?

Ok, I've apparently exhausted the supply of .44 special (4 boxes of 50) in a 50 NM radius. Having checked, I think, the applicable Virginia laws, I believe I can order ammo and have it delivered to my home.

Any reputable/proven vendors used by anyone here?

Georgia Arms. They've usually got the most competitive prices you can find. I've always been pleased with their products. I haven't ordered online from them, but my buddy has. He got his stuff without a hitch.

[M2]

Cheaper Than Dirt

Ammo To Go

But your best bet is Ammo Engine, here's the result for .44 Special.

Cheers! M2

[brickhistory]

Thanks for the point outs. My google search was simply hits without any validation.

I will check these places out.

[Timbonez]

What M2 said. .44 special is a more difficult cartridge to find, and most of the ammo are the downloaded cowboy loads. Reloading will be your friend with .44 special. Also check out Buffalo Bore. It's expensive but their ammo is pretty good in the self defense realm. Some of the other calibers they load have a dubious +p or +p+ rating when no such rating exists for that caliber (i.e. .40 S&W and .44 magnum), but I guess they just list it like that so you know what you're getting yourself into. They'll also give you velocities for multiple barrel lengths.

[JarheadBoom]

I had a very good experience with ammunitiontogo.com. Best price at the time I ordered, fast shipping, well-packaged.

[brickhistory]

200 rounds of .44 special showed up three days from ordering via Georgia Arms. Sweet!

Will give the other recommendations a try as well.

Mucho thanks for the advice.

[Nineline]

Ok, so I convinced the frau that I needed another 9mm to help dwindle the 2K rounds of 9mm I have. After much research, I finally settled on Springfield's XDM 3.8 in 9mm and found a great price on Gunbroker ($510 shipped!).

I bought from a place called Jet Guns who appears to have the best prices around, with free shipping and no extra charges for using a credit card. The interesting part, however, is that their no kidding listed street address is Paris, KY; the exact same address where I thought Budsgunshop.com was also located. However, it now seems that Budsgunshop.com has completely moved to Lexington, KY and fully vacated their old place in Paris.

Could it be that a new internet gun shop has taken up business in Bud's Gun Shop's old storefront and is now undercutting them on prices? Admittedly, Jet Gun's selection isn't as vast as Bud's, but their prices are awesome, shipping is quick and cheap (UPS 2nd Day Air for free!), and you don't have to fuss with a money order to save 3%!

Furthermore, it looks like Jet Guns has been doing business for a while, since they have over 275+ positive reviews on Gunbroker. Don't get me wrong -- I love Bud's; but you can't beat Jet Gun's prices or service!

-9-

[Spoo]

I had a very good experience with ammunitiontogo.com. Best price at the time I ordered, fast shipping, well-packaged.

Have to agree w/ Jarhead, good site. BTW, I've had a busy couple months. Picked up a Kimber Custom II, Taurus 856, and Ruger LCP. Gun Porn to follow...

[slacker]

Here's one of today's purchases, HK USP .45ACP Compact. Looking forward to shooting it.

ETA- also picked up a Mossberg 500 Persuader, nothing special. I'll post a pic after some mods.

Edited July 17, 2010 by slacker

[M2]

Slacker, nice snags; but I gotta disagree with your comment that the Persuader is "nothing special." I find it to be a perfect HD shottie!

Now go get some 3" Magnum 00-buckshot shells for it, and you'll be able to "whack-a-mole" anything that comes through the door uninvited...

Cheers! M2

[slacker]

I just meant a naked Mossberg- no tactical accessories, yet. I've got a bunch of 2 3/4" buckshot, I'll probably keep buying the 2 3/4" variety- because my Remmington 1100 can use it too.

[M2]

The Mossy is kinda like an AK...it doesn't need a lot of "tactical accessories" to get the job done. Sure, some folks (like myself) will hang lights and lasers on them, but for the most part they are very utilitarian in nature and work as required. They definitely aren't going to win any beauty pageants!

Cheers! M2

[M2]

Well, had an opportunity to pick up a Webley Mk IV .38/200 with 50 rounds of ammo for pretty cheap. The rub was that a previous owner had scrubbed all the bluing off!

However, the current owner was willing to part with it cheap, so I decided to snag it anyway. I believe it was made in 1943, but there are little markings other than the serial number, 'Webley and Scott Ltd' across the top and 'Webley Mk IV .38' on the side.

Anyhow, here are some quick pics (thumbnails, actually, so click on 'em for the full-sized versions)...

And some with the Mk VI .455 I picked up a while back...

Considering the Mk IV cost 1/10th of the Mk VI, I'm thinking it was a pretty good deal!

Just for fun, I took a pic of the .455 (left) and the .38/200 (right) rounds...

Cheers! M2

[Timbonez]

M2, are the .38/200 cartridges easy enough to find/buy?

[M2]

M2, are the .38/200 cartridges easy enough to find/buy?

T-bonez

The guy I bought the Webley from got them at a gun show. It was 50 rounds for $24.95. He actually gave me 49, as he has a collection of pistol cartridges…

Cheers! M2

[JS]

I found a few posts about IWB holsters, but didn't see anything on the SmartCarry holster. Anyone have any experience with it? There was also a good review of it here, and the guy seemed pretty happy with it. It is almost like a catchers cup with a little pouch to hide the gun in front of your package. I was thinking of something along these lines, along with a KelTec PF-7, as opposed to the basic cheap, clip on IWB holsters, since I think they would tend to bulge out more from the sides or make sitting very uncomfortable.

[M2]

They're crap, Google "Pager Pal" and you'll find they don't work as well as advertised. Check eBay if you still want one, as folks are always trying to get rid of them; but they are a waste of money. Save up for a good IWB instead...

EDIT: OK, these aren't quite the same thing as a Pager Pal; but they still look like crap. The holster doesn’t appear to hold the weapon firmly in place, it would be awkward to wear and I don’t see how you could get a good draw from it. Plus, how comfortable is it going to be to have this thing wrapped around your waist?

It is very similar to the Pager Pal, and equally unimpressive. I stand by my recommendation to save up and get a good IWB holster. Go check out Don Hume’s concealed carry holsters and find one that works for you!

Cheers! M2

Edited July 20, 2010 by M2

[Royal]

Does anyone have info or first hand experience with the Stoner 63a1? I saw a brief snippet about the thing on the Military channel; it seemed like it might have been better than the M16, but it didn't have enough comparative info to completely convince me.

[M2]

No experience myself, but a lot of info on it can be found at this web site.

Apparantly they were really popular with the SEALS in Vietnam. Here's one account:

I am a former USN SEAL (SEAL TEAM ONE 1970-1973) I carried the Stoner 63A Commando (short barrel) Right side feed. Linked ammo in a 100+ round box mounted beneath the weapon. I loved it. There were some problems with the original design but they were worked out. I replaced the pins that held the upper and lower receiver group together with bolts and self locking nuts. They original pins had a tendency to shake loose and that was a problem. It fire 600, 800 and 1000 rounds per minute depending on the position of the gas port adjustable knob. Most of us kept it at 600 and if the carbon build up during a firefight caused the weapon to slow down or stop we'd move it up to the next setting.Other SEALs prefered the longer barrel but I thought that it got in the way when going through the swamps. It also made it lighter. Most of our firefights were pretty close to the bad guys so the long barrel wasn't needed. I had a fixed stock on mine. Some SEALs used no stock or a folding stock similar to that of the MP40. I never had a problem with mine. There were guys who also liked the drum fed version. Barry Enoch a Master Chief and Navy Cross awardee carried the magazine fed Carbine version instead of the M16 or CAR15 Colt Commando. The Stoner did require lots of TLC but if you took care of it, it worked just fine. Speaking of long barrels we had many of our M60 barrels shortend by China Lake Naval Weapons Center. They were cut back to the gas tube length. The fore stock was often removed and a M16 pistol grip attached in its place. The bipod was always removed. The front sight were sometimes removed as well. The stock was often replace with the aircraft stock or a metal version of same made by China Lake. We had a homemade backpack built out of cardboard and fiverglass that held 400 rounds. A length of flex tubing that was used on Helos was attached to the back pack and looped under the arm of the operator. It was conected directly to the weapon and worked quite well. We also had 100 round assault pack made of sheet metal that were attached to the weapon and they were rugged and functioned very well.

Cheers! M2