Gun Talk

[Learjetter]

So I bought the Sig SHR 970, walnut, in 30.06 and .300 win mag. NIB. So the question becomes: what are your favorite scopes and why? I have a Simmons on my model 70, and killed an elk using a friends leupold once...has anyone tried nikon or red head or Burris or zeiss, or trijicon? Have any opinions on the pro/cons of any specific brand?

Edit: added photo.

Edit to add: thanks for the words/PMs: I ended up going with a Nikon prostaff BDC in 4x12 40mm from Cabela's bargain cave (w/coupon) & weaver 1" rings: total including shipping was $203. Also got some .300 win mag brass/ nosler partition 180gr / dies / reloder19. Will post sight in results for both .300WM and .30-06 later this spring.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Learjetter

[Timbonez]

Awesome find, learjetter. I hear those rifles are the tits. I have one scope and it's a Leupold VX-II 2-7x33. It's a good one, but I think next time I'll just get a fixed power scope. Clarity is very good and eye relief is enough that I won't smash my brow on the recoil of my .375 H&H.

[brickhistory]

Walther PK380

After getting and shooting the Walther P22 .22LR and really enjoying it, as well as saving up for a Walther P99 in 9mm (still saving), I found a good deal on gunbroker for the mid-size PK380 chambered in the self-explanatory .380 acp. It is a polymer-frame, steel slide semi-auto holding 8+1 rounds.

Won the auction on Sunday, paid the dealer on Monday, had the gun on Thursday. Went for a test drive this morning.

The pistol came with one clip, a plastic key (more on this later), an external lock, and a plastic foam cut-out carrying case.

Using Federal FMJ 95gr. ammo, I put 200 rounds through the pistol.

It points very naturally and is pretty accurate right out of the box (which it came out of pretty greasy. Bits of thick lube oozing out of the slide and the ambidextorous safety).

At 7, 15, and 25 yards aimed fire, everything was inner 9 or 10 ring. The front sight is fixed, the rear sights adjustable for windage.

At 7 yards rapid fire center of mass work, everything stayed 8 ring or better. Those more experienced/practiced will undoubtedly do better.

Like the P22, the PK380 has a remarkably comfortable, ergonomic grip. It feels good in the hand, not awkward or boxy at all.

I had one FTE "stovepipe," and four failures for it to fire although going double-action, i.e., squeezing the trigger again with no other corrective action made the appropriate "bang."

There is no choice in grip backstraps as in the P22 or the P99 so one size fits all.

Operating the gun is cumbersome. The instructions are 2/3s "don't shoot yourself" and 1/3 practical instruction of care/feeding/cleaning of the weapon.

Like the P22, the bottom rear third of the trigger guard is the magazine release. Unlike the P22, the PK380 does not have a slide release. There is no way to bring the slide forward unless there is a magazine in the well. So loading the weapon consists of (with the slide locked to the rear) inserting a loaded magazine, pulling the slide back slightly with the off-hand and releasing it. You are now ready to go. A thumbable switch/button would be much better.

To safe the gun, you place the safety to "S," retard the hammer while pulling the trigger. A block rotates in front of the firing pin during this evolution.

Moving the slide forward requires a magazine in the gun. It won't go forward without one.

The worst part of this gun is field-stripping it. It requires a separate tool - the plastic "key" mentioned above. Insert the key, rotate counter-clockwise 135 degrees, drop the locking band on the underside of the frame, slide the slide forward until clear. This is an automatic fail in my opinion. You should not need an external tool to be able to break down a gun. All well and good if it's back home in a controlled environment cleaning it, but if at the range, a match, or God forbid, a no-kidding shooting situation, having a cheap piece of plastic required to turn a mechanism is a a bad bit of engineering to me.

It breaks down fairly standard, the retaining rod and spring hooking on the front of the chamber block. Getting the spring back into the front of the slide is a three-handed manuever, but do-able.

I bought the gun because I wanted to get the set, P22, PK380, and P99. While I don't regret buying this pistol, I almost do. It is not my favorite and, in addition to breaking my policy of simplified ammo logistics - cue Tom Skerrit in "Top Gun -

"You broke a major rule of engagement and jeopardized your storage space."

this pistol will not be a go-to gun for much of anything. It will look good in the my hoped for next year plan of a custom made gun cabinet alongside it's big and little brothers.

For a plinker, I'll use the .22. For a carry, I'll use my .45 compact. 7+1 of big bullets vs. 8+1 of little in a gun only fractions of an inch difference in all dimensions.

This could be a useful gun for those of smaller stature or limited hand strength. Indeed, some of the on-line reviews highlight those attributes, but for me, I'll take a bigger gun.

To summarize:

PROS:

- Relatively inexpensive as is the ammo

- Big enough to shoot comfortably unlike some of the micro-380s (KalTec, for example) which are just too small for me to hold

- Small enough for concealed carry if desired

- A good, accurate plinker

CONS:

- Better plinkers available

- Requires a separate, easily lose-able plastic key to break it down

- No slide release button/lever. Ejecting the magazine to move the slide forward on an empty gun is cumbersome, as is having to rack the slide with the off-side hand once a loaded clip is inserted into a slide held in the ready position by firing previously.

I did learn, however, that a .380 acp is a different flavor of 9mm. This caliber is also called a 9mm Kurz while the 9mm Luger is the more commonly known 9. I did not know that.

[M2]

Brick

Good write up, and I too typically subscribe to "simplified ammo logistics" when acquiring firearms. The main reasons I dumped my .380 was due to the lack of availability and high cost of ammo, but the fact that it was the only gun I had in that caliber made the decision much easier.

Of course, it was also a piece of shit Kel-Tec; and .380 is now easier to find (heck, our local Walmart has it in stock); but there was nothing about the round that would draw me back to it unless of course, I find a good deal on a Taurus PT738!

That said, "9mm Kurz" basically means "9mmm short" in German. I prefer the "normal" 9mm Luger myself, and in fact traded the P3AT I had for a Taurus PT111 and later acquired a single-stack PT709 Slim. Both have been great pistols, and ammo is cheap and plentiful.

Of course, I also own a couple of Russian Nagant M1895 revolvers that use the really odd 7.62x38R round in which the bullet itself is contained within the shell casing. You can use a .32S&W Long in it, but it can be risky.

Cheers! M2

[brickhistory]

M2, copy all. I haven't shot anything 9mm since the last time on a USAF M9 in 2006. Didn't get back into shooting anything until earlier this year.

I really want to get the Walther P99 in 9mm Luger, although it is available in .40 as well. But I figured I could get a wider variety of other pistols in 9mm as compared to a .40. Again in the interests of simplified ammo supply chain.

Reasonable line of thinking or not?

I don't see another .380 in my future and only keeping a box or two of ammo for this one around.

How'd you get into the Russian firearms kick? An odd bit of curiousity was finding out that one of my favorites, the .44 is based on a turn of the 20th century Russian cartridge as well.

[M2]

M2, copy all. I haven't shot anything 9mm since the last time on a USAF M9 in 2006. Didn't get back into shooting anything until earlier this year.

I really want to get the Walther P99 in 9mm Luger, although it is available in .40 as well. But I figured I could get a wider variety of other pistols in 9mm as compared to a .40. Again in the interests of simplified ammo supply chain.

Reasonable line of thinking or not?

Reasonable, it is why the vast majority of my handguns are in .45 or 9mm.

I don't see another .380 in my future and only keeping a box or two of ammo for this one around.

Yep, that's how I am with my .455 Webley Mk VI, .38S&W Webley Mk IV, my two .357s, my .38 Special and my two M1895 revolvers. I just keep a handful of ammo on tap for each of them in case I ever feel like shooting them.

How'd you get into the Russian firearms kick? An odd bit of curiousity was finding out that one of my favorites, the .44 is based on a turn of the 20th century Russian cartridge as well.

For some reason I've always had an interest in Russian/Warsaw Pact firearms, and as you know I am a big history buff. It's much easier collecting Commie milsurp than US, cheaper too!

Speaking of history, there's a factory engraved one-of-a-kind 100th Anniversary Colt 1911 on GunBroker.com...

As a very special bonus, the high bidder will be invited to visit the Colt Factory in Hartford, Connecticut on March 29, 2011-the official 100th Anniversary of the U.S. Army's approval of the 1911 as the U.S. Army sidearm. Winner will be given a private tour of the factory, will have lunch with Colt Management, receive a package of special Colt logo items and collectibles and will have photos taken with the Colt engravers. During this visit, the high bidder will visit the Colt Historical Department and will be presented with an official document authenticated his Colt as the one and only 100th Anniversary 1911 featured as the 2011 SHOT Show gun and featuring the historic 1911COLT2011 Serial number. And to top off this special package, the high bidder will have the opportunity to have his or her initials engraved on spare mainspring housing as a keepsake or to have installed on their 1911.

Currently it's sitting at $50,000 with only just over 27 days left, so hurry up and get your bids in!!

Cheers! M2

[Timbonez]

That's a pretty Colt. I like that it is a 1911 design and not the 1911A1. Colt also has some other tasteful, and less expensive, anniversary 1911s available for it's 100th Birthday. I've seen what other companies have to offer for their 100th anniversary 1911s, and they are just plain ugly. They are also nothing like an original 1911 (i.e. 1911A1, night sights, beavertail, etc.). I probably won't get any anniversary edition, maybe the ANVIII from Colt, but it's pretty disappointing what most companies have put out. The Wilson Combat Centennial is also nice, but not $4K nice.

Anyway, I found this on youtube. They also have their own proprietary round.

Edited December 25, 2010 by Timbonez

[Timbonez]

FN BDAO (Browning Double Action Only) in 9mm Review. Before I start with my particular version, a little history is in order. The BDA9 and BDAO9 were designed in the early 80s. The BDA9 was FN's entry into the XM9 trials, which the Beretta won. The only difference between the BDA9 and BDAO9 is the BDA has both DA/SA and a decocker, where the BDAO9 only has the double action feature with no external controls. Both pistols are direct descendants of the Hi-Power. Although they look externally similar to a traditional HP, internally they are very different. On to the review:

BDAO9:

9mm semi-auto

DAO

Steel frame and slide with matte finish

3 dot sight setup

4.6" barrel

15+1 round capacity

I bought this pistol brand new at Cabela's at the beginning of this month. At that time I field stripped the weapon, cleaned it, and lubed it with TW-25B grease. The pistol itself is an all matte black that looks relatively durable. It's not like the Mk III Hi-Power's matte epoxy finish. Grips are black plastic, similar to the Mk III Hi-Powers currently being produced. It also has a small hole with a metal lanyard ring at the bottom rear of the grip. I find them comfortable to use, which is good since I don't think there are many (if any) aftermarket grips. The sights are dovetailed into the pistol, but they are made out of plastic. Changing them, if you wish, should not be an issue. As is, they are a 3 dot set-up, which I personally dislike. All three dots are exactly the same size. The front dot should be bigger than the rear two so it stands out more. They also just seem to be white circles pasted onto the sight itself, but they seem to keep in place pretty good.

The trigger pull is actually quite pleasant for a DAO handgun. It resembles a finely tuned S&W double action revolver pull. It's not very heavy, is smooth throughout the take-up (no stacking), has a little bit of perceived creep, breaks pretty cleanly, and has a short overtravel (thanks to a plastic insert at the rear of the trigger guard). The reset is quite long, as should be expected from a double action only handgun. Overall, it isn't heavy and is quite easy to pull for fast shots. That being said, extended range sessions shooting this pistol fatigued my finger. That could be just the trigger or the combination of trigger and cold that I was shooting in. Regardless, I don't see this as a problem for a self defense or combat handgun. There is ample room in the trigger guard for a large index finger or one inside a glove.

The frame to slide fit is tight for a production gun, but not overly tight. Racking the slide by hand and shooting standard range ammo produces a smooth, non-gritty action. Even throughout the 800 rounds of ammo (with no cleaning), the action is still smooth. Testing so far has been a combination of slow and fast fire to dump the mag as quickly as possible. All rounds have fed flawlessly, to include three 15 round mags of 147gr Remington Golden Sabers. I did experience a failure to extract/eject. The cartridge fired completely, but the slide did not seem to cycle completely. I felt this and pulled the trigger again expecting nothing to happen. Nothing did, so I racked the slide and out ejected a spent case. I don't think it was the fault of the gun, rather just a weak load of ammo. This was from a Winchester White Box cartridge. Testing has been done over three days (448rds, 202rds, 150rds) in cold weather ranging from 15-44 degrees.

The pistol maintains the weight of a standard Hi-Power, as it is an all steel handgun. I'm not sure if the frame is cast like current production Hi-Powers, but it would stand to reason that it is produced that way to ease in manufacturing logistics. Aesthetically speaking, it resembles a Hi-Power to include the lightening cuts forward of the slide. These are, however, angled forward rather than vertical on a traditional Hi-Power. It is NOT possible to cycle the action completely by pushing on the slide under the barrel like it is on a traditional Hi-Power. The front of the slide, under the barrel does have the "drainage" hole found on the Mk II Hi-Powers from the 80s. This makes sense because the BDA and BDAO were designed in the early 80s.

I've only fired the pistol offhand at ranges varying from 3-50 yards. It's an accurate pistol and serves my needs. I'm no marksman, but I can hold my own. I haven't benchrested the pistol.

The internals of the pistol are VERY simple. There are very few parts, and even a troglodyte would be able to detail strip the pistol. The BDAO is also sans magazine disconnect. Field stripping is very simple. As the slide rests normally, the slide stop can be pushed out and the slide is easily removed. Don't let that alarm you into thinking that the slide stop could just drift out during the course of fire. It takes quite a bit of "oomph" to push it out. Basic level maintenance and "armorer" level maintenance can easily be accomplished by the end user.

I like this pistol a lot, but I see one major problem. There is very little support for the design. I've had no luck in finding replacement parts and accessories. There are two shops that I have yet to call, which specialize in selling hard to find parts for different firearms. There are some places that sell parts and springs for the Browning Double Mode (BDM), and it appears the BDA/BDAO share the same hammer spring and magazines as the BDM. If this is true, that should cover most of my worries (except for a replacement extractor, extractor spring, and ejector... just in case). I don't see this being a problem just yet, but it is inevitable.

PROs:

Very simple design and very few parts; simplifies maintenance

Reliable design thus far in my testing

Easy trigger pull for a DAO

Slim profile just like traditional Hi-Powers; should also fit many Hi-Power holsters

Good capacity magazines

Long sight radius

CONs:

Plastic sights

Little external support; could be an issue if used as a high round count gun

Heavy by today's polymer handgun standards

Dirty Pics:

Clean Pics, you'll see a lot of oil as I hadn't wiped away the excess before I snapped the shots:

As you can see it is a very simple design, and one I would trust my life to if I had to. There are definitely other pistols out there that have the external support required for a hard use gun. If this pistol had that same support, I would see no problem in shooting it a lot. As it stands, this gun will be fired every once in a while, and used as a HD or carry gun sparingly.

ETA: My next review will be one of my Browning Hi-Power Mk IIs.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Timbonez

[Learjetter]

Great review..thank you Timbonez! I've been coveting a FN/Browning Hi-Power for the last few years--looks like you're also a fan. I didn't know there was a BDAO version...I may need to drive down to Cabelas (never a bad idea) since my local Bass Pro doesn't seem to stock many Hi Powers and the prices on the gun show circuit are nuts. Anyway--thanks again for the words.

[Timbonez]

You're welcome, LJ. If you want a Hi-Power, I'd suggest getting the traditional single action only design. It'll be easier to find replacement parts for them. The Mk IIIs currently being produced by FN today are quality guns that will serve almost any need. In addition to the BDAO, I have a Mk III modified by Novak's and two Mk IIs that are stock save for the grips.

ETA: Hi Powers are going to be expensive. Expect to pay between $750-$950 for a brand new Hi Power. Used ones will be cheaper by a few hundred, but that also depends on what run of HPs you look at. For example, the T series Hi Powers will run a premium, but Mk IIs can be had at a decent price. I was lucky enough to pay $750 for the Mk III, but then went ahead and spent a shit ton for the Novak's work. The Mk IIs ran me around $600 each after transfer and such, and the BDAO was $461 after tax.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Timbonez

[Learjetter]

That's good news--most of what I've been seeing locally are new in the $950 range and used FNs in the $850 range--even at gunshows. I'll keep my eyes peeled...now that I know what to look for. The two remaining auto pistols I want are the Kimber ultra carry and the Hi power (both in 9mm). Thanks again for the info.

[Guest Flyinrock]

Anyone care to hazard a guess on price for a Navy MTU National Match Conditioned M-1 Garand in .308? It was built by the Navy MTU in SoCal back in the 60's and is in excellent condition.

[Smokin]

Anyone care to hazard a guess on price for a Navy MTU National Match Conditioned M-1 Garand in .308? It was built by the Navy MTU in SoCal back in the 60's and is in excellent condition.

That depends. Are you looking to buy or sell? :)

[Guest Flyinrock]

That depends. Are you looking to buy or sell? :)

Belongs to an old friend and he was curious as to value.

[Timbonez]

LJ, there are plenty of Hi Powers on GunBroker with decent prices for used ones.

[Learjetter]

LJ, there are plenty of Hi Powers on GunBroker with decent prices for used ones.

Got some Christmas $$ left--may have to make use of it on gunbroker...thanks for the tip.

[HU&W]

This looks extremely fun.

Nueces Helicopter Pig Hunt (no music)

Edited December 29, 2010 by M2
Embedding disabled, so link added.

[Guest Flyinrock]

This looks extremely fun.

Nueces Helicopter Pig Hunt (no music)

Looks like Holt Helicopters out of Uvalde...

Edited December 30, 2010 by Flyinrock

[waltopfor]

Has anyone gone the NFA route while on active duty? With PCS and the form to move an NFA item out of state it seems like it would be pretty hard to do. Or could you just sell your NFA item before a PCS. Talking about title II SBR AOW etc

Edited January 4, 2011 by waltopfor

[Learjetter]

"Firearms? What firearms? I don't know what you're talking about! I don't have any registered firearms. I lost some some time ago-- a freak deep-water boating mishap--sorry I can't be more help, mr. ATF agent...".

[Timbonez]

Has anyone gone the NFA route while on active duty? With PCS and the form to move an NFA item out of state it seems like it would be pretty hard to do. Or could you just sell your NFA item before a PCS. Talking about title II SBR AOW etc

PCSing is the only thing keeping me from SBRing an AR-15.

[StoleIt]

PCSing is the only thing keeping me from SBRing an AR-15.

Tell me about it.

Stooopid Illinois!

[M2]

While I am trying to slow down my Mosin habit, I happened to stumble across this Chinese T53 carbine that is a documented Vietnam bring-back for sale locally at a great price, and just had to snag it! I just got it about a half hour ago, so all I've got are the photos from the ad; but it's in really good shape!

The rifle is almost all matching--to include the stock which I found odd, 'cause I've never seen a Chinese Mosin marked like that. The only exception is the bolt, which doesn't bother me as it is very common especially for Vietnam War bring-backs.

It is a 1960 Factory 26 (/26\) with no indication of any import markings on it. I will take some good pics in a day or two, but the serial numbers matched the paperwork and while the paperwork (DD Forms 603 & 603-1) did state it was a Russian M44 in two places; that was a common error and doesn't bother me either. I got a nice Vietnam bring-back T53 at an excellent price!

Cheers! M2

[Timbonez]

Well I did the unthinkable and bought a tupperware gun again. This one is a brand new (as in it left the factory after Dec 21st 2010) Gen4 Glock 17, $423.95 out the door. My first gun was a USP Compact in .40 S&W, and my second was a Glock 19. I sold both of those because I didn't like the feel of them. I also owned a mid-size M&P45, which was sold to a friend. We'll see how this Glock fares. Expect a review for this pistol before my BHPs. I've shot those a lot, so I think I'll focus on shooting this pistol and provide a review for it first.

By the way, M2, you are the Axis of Evil. Nice rifle.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Timbonez

[M2]

By the way, M2, you are the Axis of Evil. Nice rifle.

Just trying to keep pace with you, my brother!

Nice Glock, I think we're both gonna have a nice arsenal and a depleted savings account!

Cheers! M2