Gun Talk

[HeloDude]

Shortish story about the defacto registration:

Why did you talk with the ATF at all? Were you just wanting to answer their questions because you wanted to help them?...even though they have no problem going after you if they see fit?

You can just be polite and say that you don't feel comfortable discussing this with them, end of story. They'd have to detain/arrest you to further the discussion at that point, and then you lawyer up and go after their asses for wrongful arrest.

I get that a lot of people want to 'talk' with officials when they are questioned, but if you have nothing to hide/did nothing wrong, then there's nothing they can do to you. Sure they can try to press charges anyway, but in this case, where is their proof that you were doing anything illegal with your firearms? I'm all about cooperating with LE, but not when they're looking to potentially charge you with a crime (hence why they were questioning you). At that point, it's better to get a lawyer.

Just my $.02

[ChkHandleDn]

Tula or Izhevsk?

The carbines are more fun to shoot than the 91/30s!

Izhevsk, but unfortunately has non-matching serial numbers. And yes, I definitely agree, the M44 is much more fun to shoot than the 91/30. But they aren't kidding about corrosive ammo. I shot it earlier today and let it sit for about an hour, and no shit the bolt face started to show rust. Fortunately some Windex and boiling water did the trick. Regardless, this rifle is by far now one of my favorites.

I have two 91/30s and am planning on sporterizing (Oh no!) one of them. I will be throwing on this stock: , and a Primary Arms 4-16X44 scope sitting on a Rock Solid Industries scope mount. Should be fun.

Edited April 27, 2013 by ChkHandleDn

[magnetfreezer]

Why did you talk with the ATF at all? Were you just wanting to answer their questions because you wanted to help them?...even though they have no problem going after you if they see fit? You can just be polite and say that you don't feel comfortable discussing this with them, end of story. They'd have to detain/arrest you to further the discussion at that point, and then you lawyer up and go after their asses for wrongful arrest. I get that a lot of people want to 'talk' with officials when they are questioned, but if you have nothing to hide/did nothing wrong, then there's nothing they can do to you. Sure they can try to press charges anyway, but in this case, where is their proof that you were doing anything illegal with your firearms? I'm all about cooperating with LE, but not when they're looking to potentially charge you with a crime (hence why they were questioning you). At that point, it's better to get a lawyer. Just my $.02

Until they report it to your chain... the AF has no problem punishing for stuff that you haven't been convicted of in civil court.

[brickhistory]

Until they report it to your chain... the AF has no problem punishing for stuff that you haven't been convicted of in civil court.

This.

Absolutely tough call to make.

Talk to ATF hoping it all goes quietly away or stick to your guns (no pun intended) and realize that Big Blue is 98% guarenteed to look at you unfavorably if ATF lets 'em know you aren't rolling over.

Seen it in ugly divorces, seen it when AFOSI is scrambling to find someone, anyone to hang a charge on so they get the pressure off them, seeing it now when a 3-star makes a decision regarding a court-martial and Big Blue and the DoD are going belly-up like the weakest dog in the pack.

As young captain/SSgt in the middle of the wife/little kid/establishing a career for the long-term treadmill, the choice can be different than as a grumpy old man who can tell the "man" to take a hike.

[HeloDude]

Until they report it to your chain... the AF has no problem punishing for stuff that you haven't been convicted of in civil court.

You do realize that the Air Force can not officially 'punish' you unless it's under Article 15, Court-Martial, etc?

Again, if you have done nothing wrong and chose to not answer an official's question, then there is nothing the Air Force can do to you. What, 'failure to cooperate with LE?'...have you been detained or charged? They asked you a question and you refused to answer--no law broken there (please let me know if i am incorrect). What's funny is that several weeks ago guys said on this Board that if your leadership starts 'questioning' you over potentially legal issues that the best course of action is to say that you won't discuss anything without legal council...but yet for some reason you will spill your guts in front of a LE official who has no problem arresting you if you say the wrong thing. Or even worse, you fear the response of being questioned by your CC (after said ATF gives them a call) for something in which you did nothing wrong? At that point we're back to the whole 'don't answer questions by your CC if its a potentially legal issue/investigation without council'.

Can your leadership then push for a shitty assignment, not strat you high for IDE, etc...sure, but if it's in response to this matter in which you did nothing wrong, then you have an IG complaint, though yes, it may be hard to prove.

I'm not saying you don't have a personal reason in wanting to answer questions (you're hoping it all goes away after your answers, which in this case it worked out for the guy)...all I'm saying is that he doesn't have to answer them. Funny, if LE came to your house asking you what you were doing a few nights ago over the weekend because a neighbor got raped, would you just have a friendly conversation with them or would you get a lawyer?...there's a reason why they are questioning you specifically, they are not asking you if you heard any noises outside that evening. No difference here. This isn't the same as being pulled over for a speeding ticket or the police coming out to your house because your music is too loud--firearm charges can carry stiff penalties, and not to be taken lightly. Best advice--get a lawyer.

Again, just my opinion and I hope nobody on here has to go through anything like this. But we saw an AF O-5 almost go to prison for something he said he didn't do (ie sexual assault case)--you don't think he lawyered up if LE/OSI just came over to 'ask him some questions'?

I'll leave at this unless somebody wants to comment further and disagree under legal reasons.

[brickhistory]

You do realize that the Air Force can not officially 'punish' you unless it's under Article 15, Court-Martial, etc?

Again, if you have done nothing wrong and chose to not answer an official's question, then there is nothing the Air Force can do to you. What, 'failure to cooperate with LE?'...have you been detained or charged? They asked you a question and you refused to answer--no law broken there (please let me know if i am incorrect). What's funny is that several weeks ago guys said on this Board that if your leadership starts 'questioning' you over potentially legal issues that the best course of action is to say that you won't discuss anything without legal council...but yet for some reason you will spill your guts in front of a LE official who has no problem arresting you if you say the wrong thing. Or even worse, you fear the response of being questioned by your CC (after said ATF gives them a call) for something in which you did nothing wrong? At that point we're back to the whole 'don't answer questions by your CC if its a potentially legal issue/investigation without council'.

Can your leadership then push for a shitty assignment, not strat you high for IDE, etc...sure, but if it's in response to this matter in which you did nothing wrong, then you have an IG complaint, though yes, it may be hard to prove.

I'm not saying you don't have a personal reason in wanting to answer questions (you're hoping it all goes away after your answers, which in this case it worked out for the guy)...all I'm saying is that he doesn't have to answer them. Funny, if LE came to your house asking you what you were doing a few nights ago over the weekend because a neighbor got raped, would you just have a friendly conversation with them or would you get a lawyer?...there's a reason why they are questioning you specifically, they are not asking you if you heard any noises outside that evening. No difference here. This isn't the same as being pulled over for a speeding ticket or the police coming out to your house because your music is too loud--firearm charges can carry stiff penalties, and not to be taken lightly. Best advice--get a lawyer.

Again, just my opinion and I hope nobody on here has to go through anything like this. But we saw an AF O-5 almost go to prison for something he said he didn't do (ie sexual assault case)--you don't think he lawyered up if LE/OSI just came over to 'ask him some questions'?

I'll leave at this unless somebody wants to comment further and disagree under legal reasons.

I agree that if it's serious, you should lawyer up.

I don't agree that USAF won't 'unofficially' punish you. Suddenly you aren't the one picked for school, upgrade, instructor/evaluator, follow-on, etc despite having been on that track immediately prior to ATF (or other incident/agency) showing an interest. Getting outside the herd is scary to most leadership and most don't know how to deal with it.

If you've got a good commander, hopefully, you won't.

Hope is never a serious strategy.

Cool story bro: Former ops officer accused of child molestation after daughter, given a car based upon maintaining good grades, gets it taken after not doing so. AFOSI investigates, it is a "he said, she said" situation with no forensic proof, no other indicators, nada. Even contradictory evidence of being TDY when accused of incidents back at home station.

One star WG/CC recommends court-martial.

Takes jury less than 1 hour to find "not guilty."

WG/CC tells ops officer you were found "not guilty, you weren't found innocent."

Funny how an Aggressor, weapons school grad, major-select ops officer with all squares filled finds himself with a follow-on assignment to a junior captain's billet.

And got out and is making a gajillion bucks on the outside.

That "needs of the Air Force" thing is a pretty powerful tool when used for evil that can't be proved.

Once again, it comes down to leadership, both personal and heirarchical (sp?). If you've got a good boss, then I agree with your position. If you've got the far more typical one, then the choice gets tougher - if it's a witch, she'll float and if she's not, she'll drown.

edited to add: Perhaps this should be a separate thread since it is only tangentially related to guns? An advice/opinion on how to handle BS outside the Air Force that affects you in the Air Force?

Edited April 27, 2013 by brickhistory

[Fuzz]

You 'love' shooting the Mosin?? I guess I need to get to the gym more often.

Well I love shooting it at the moment, the next morning though is a different story.

[M2]

That Archangel stock is pretty cool, I might just drag up one of my Mosins from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico to modernize it like that...

Of course, once it's all done, it'll have to go back to sleeping with the fishes like the rest of my collection!

Cheers! M2

[brickhistory]

Hmmm, maybe I can pitch a show idea to History, Discovery, or Playboy channels...

It's about hard-drinkin', hard-charging blue-collar good ol' boys who dredge the waters of the Gulf of Mexico for firearms.

I'm thinking of calling it "The Deadliest Catch." Beats crabbing...

[Bobby]

Well I love shooting it at the moment, the next morning though is a different story.

Well that can be said about most of my Saturday night activities in college...

[SocialD]

So I want to order direct from Glock but their paperwork requires a copy of a military ID. I'm fairly certain that this is NOT one of the exceptions to the rule, that we can't make copies of our ID. Has anyone dealt with this? Just want to make sure before I talk with Glock directly about this.

Edit: did a search and this was already discussed.

Well that can be said about most of my Saturday night activities in college...

Or my last weekend...

Edited April 28, 2013 by SocialD

[Guest CannonCrashPad]

The Air Force can give you an LOR for an unproved and highly ridiculous charge from LEO that will come from your standing up for your rights, the law, and not bending over. Even once the retarded charge is dismissed in court, the Air Force Board of Corrections won't undo the obvious corrupt damage. Do the right thing, but expect the worse. Then the Air Force will not let you down in your expectations.

[magnetfreezer]

You do realize that the Air Force can not officially 'punish' you unless it's under Article 15, Court-Martial, etc?

Again, if you have done nothing wrong and chose to not answer an official's question, then there is nothing the Air Force can do to you. What, 'failure to cooperate with LE?'...have you been detained or charged? They asked you a question and you refused to answer--no law broken there (please let me know if i am incorrect). What's funny is that several weeks ago guys said on this Board that if your leadership starts 'questioning' you over potentially legal issues that the best course of action is to say that you won't discuss anything without legal council...but yet for some reason you will spill your guts in front of a LE official who has no problem arresting you if you say the wrong thing. Or even worse, you fear the response of being questioned by your CC (after said ATF gives them a call) for something in which you did nothing wrong? At that point we're back to the whole 'don't answer questions by your CC if its a potentially legal issue/investigation without council'.

Agree - not saying I wouldn't lawyer up, just disagreeing with the stance that they can't do anything to you if you don't talk and they can't prove anything. As Cannon said, LOR/LOC/etc info requires no evidence but can still torpedo a career.

[BigFreddie]

I understand HeloDudes comments. I also had several items in the NFA registry as well. I wanted to know if I needed a lawyer before they came knocking on my door. 5 minute conversation using all the best SERE techniques I knew and I never heard back from them. Personal choice and it worked out for me that time. All the other comments are spot on too.

[M2]

Shot my Yugo M57 Tokarev this morning, what a blast! Typically crappy Commie sights, but otherwise it ran perfectly. Spits brass about 45' away, one of the other shooters down the line asked me what I was shooting because he saw it flying through the air. I let him put a couple of rounds through it, he liked it. the only down side was despite a good cleaning, it still weeped a pretty considerable amount of oil

I also took my newly-acquired bi-tone Sig Skeeter out, last time it didn't run too reliably. I was having the same issues this time despite the thorough cleaning until the same dude walked up and suggested I oil the snot outta one little hole on the right slide of the slide. I did so and had considerable improvement, but it took a few more times before it was running pretty well. Of course, this caused it to seep a fair bit of oil.

So a great day at the range, but an oily one as well. Still, I am happy that the Mosquito is running better, I wasn't too thrilled with it after its first outing. Now I see why it is such a popular pistol...

Cheers! M2

[HU&W]

Shot my Yugo M57 Tokarev this morning, what a blast! Typically crappy Commie sights, but otherwise it ran perfectly. Spits brass about 45' away, one of the other shooters down the line asked me what I was shooting because he saw it flying through the air. I let him put a couple of rounds through it, he liked it. the only down side was despite a good cleaning, it still weeped a pretty considerable amount of oil

Nice. My TT33 (nearly identical to your M57) is easily one of the most fun shooters in my collection. Extremely accurate and reliable. Now if only I could find those 1240 round bricks of 7.62x25 for under $100 again I'd be set.

Edited April 28, 2013 by HU&W

[M2]

Nice. My TT33 (nearly identical to your M57) is easily one of the most fun shooters in my collection. Extremely accurate and reliable. Now if only I could find those 1240 round bricks of 7.62x25 for under $100 again I'd be set.

Yeah, I was very frugal with what little ammo I have for it (50 rounds). I have a lead on some more, not a lot but I don't think this will be a handgun I regularly shoot; much like my Nagant 1895s...

[HU&W]

Yeah, I was very frugal with what little ammo I have for it (50 rounds). I have a lead on some more, not a lot but I don't think this will be a handgun I regularly shoot; much like my Nagant 1895s...

I've never had a problem finding it. Most gunshops I've been to have a few boxes of S&B for around $30. I'm TDY to HMN right now and have seen boxes of Winchester every time I've been in the BX for $26.

Edited April 28, 2013 by HU&W

[M2]

I've never had a problem finding it. Most gunshops I've been to have a few boxes of S&B for around $30. I'm TDY to HMN right now and have seen boxes of Winchester every time I've been in the BX for $26.

Wow, it's been tough finding any around here...

[brickhistory]

CNBC ran a show tonight called "America's Rifle: The AR-15."

They mostly played it straight, covering pro- and anti-.

I am sure they will re-run it.

[HeloDude]

CNBC ran a show tonight called "America's Rifle: The AR-15."

They mostly played it straight, covering pro- and anti-.

I am sure they will re-run it.

I thought it was done pretty well considering. But don't fool yourself, they were definitely pushing an anti-gun agenda...just a little more subtle than some other media outlets.

I did like how they detailed the difference between the M-4 vs AR-15 (ie select fire vs semi).

[brickhistory]

I thought it was done pretty well considering. But don't fool yourself, they were definitely pushing an anti-gun agenda...just a little more subtle than some other media outlets.

I did like how they detailed the difference between the M-4 vs AR-15 (ie select fire vs semi).

Agreed. Their sign off line was telling.

Still worth the time to watch it.

[Duck]

Just bought a Taurus 738 TCP (.380) for the wife to carry, however I still can't find .380 ammo around here. When it does come back in stock, does anyone know what a fair price is? All my other handguns are 9mm and .40. Thanks!

[Day Man]

MX question: what does everyone use to clean/lube their pieces (no STS)? Is the Hoppes brand any good? I figured I'd send my new M&P40C into the Sound after a good once-over.

[StoleIt]

Lube: Lithium grease.