Gun Talk

[M2]

I had an interesting discussion with a coworker today about gun companies and I'm curious to hear what people here think. It's been a while since I've bought a gun so my impressions might be somewhat out of date. Every time I looked at getting a new gun it seems like the choices are dominated by a handful of companies you see everywhere (Colt, Ruger, S&W, Glock, Springfield, etc.) and when people ask online for advice those same names always come up. But according to the ATF there are over 250 handgun manufacturers in the US plus all the imports each year. So who are all these small manufacturers and where are they selling guns? Most of them have sprung up since 2004 (only 79 manufacturers registered with ATF in 2004) but I don't feel like I ever see new guns from new companies on shelves.

If you think about it making a gun isn't all that complicated once you get the government approvals so it's not that surprising that new manufacturers pop up when the gun market is doing well. And it's pretty common for people to own multiple guns from different manufacturers. On the flip side, while I'm willing to try anything from names I know I'm not sure I would trust a no-name gun company I've never heard of considering how badly things can go wrong with a poorly made firearm. So has anybody hear bought from a small company or even seen companies that make maybe 1 or 2 different handguns and that's it?

I am curious as to where you got that number of handgun manufacturers (250), as according to the ATF, there is over 10K 07 FFLs (Manufacturer of Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices) in the country.  Granted, a vast majority of those probably produce rifles (especially ARs); but I know a few 07 FFLs and they mainly focus on customer weaponry so it's not surprising that they aren't well known outside of Texas.

Essentially, there are two types of manufacturers...the high production ones like the companies you mentioned (Glock, Springfield, SIG, etc.) and there's smaller, much lower production custom builders (Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, etc.) and then there's the really low-number builders (<100 firearms a year) that are better known regionally than nationwide.

When it comes to custom guns, it all depends on how good the shooter is.  I honestly believe most people really couldn't tell the difference between a Springfield, Kimber or STI 1911s in a blind shooting test (and no, I don't mind shooting the blind!).  Maybe between a $400 Rock Island model versus a Heirloom Precision that costs several thousand dollars; but I am simply not that great of a shooter to need a Springfield Leatham Legend (but I'd sure like to have one!).

So, to sum up, it reality it is not that tough to get a 07 FFL; but to obtain the skills and equipment to make custom-quality handguns could be a very costly endeavor.  You can buy 80% 1911 frames without going through an FFL (The Sportsman's Guide has 'em) and you can legally finish the build as long as it's for personal use (you couldn't sell it without the ATF getting irritated).  There are plenty of companies out there that specialize in certain guns, Bond Arms only makes derringers; so it's not as uncommon as you think.

Cheers!  M2

[spaceman]

Another +1 for the Ruger SR-22. I bought my wife one a few years ago as her first gun and we both love it! I personally haven't had any trouble with any ammo I've put through it.

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[sputnik]

Thanks, Ill take a look

[Disregard]

What about a .22 revolver? S&W Model 63 for $545.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/411555060/redirect

[disgruntledemployee]

I bought my SR22 primarily as a teaching (and fun plinking) pistol for my wife and kids.  It has all the features most other semi-auto pistols have, it is easily controlled, and fits small hands for the lady and youtes.  It's also super easy to reload.  My wife used it to get her CCL and has since upgraded to a M&P Shield for carry.  I also looked at Walther, but didn't like the materials. 

Congratulations Dyess.  Thanks for leading the way, I hope others follow the same path!!!  Hey Base Commanders, HINT HINT!!!

Out

[SurelySerious]

fits small hands for the lady and youtes. 

[lloydbraun]

CDNN has outstanding prices on LWRC guns right now.  I just bought a M6 ICA2 for $1499.00.  This gun's MSRP is just over $2200, and if you order by tomorrow, they throw in a Ruger 10/22 for free.  Total for both guns shipped was $1514.00

 

[MilitaryToFinance]

On 12/4/2015, 10:30:13, M2 said:

I am curious as to where you got that number of handgun manufacturers (250), as according to the ATF, there is over 10K 07 FFLs (Manufacturer of Firearms Other Than Destructive Devices) in the country.  Granted, a vast majority of those probably produce rifles (especially ARs); but I know a few 07 FFLs and they mainly focus on customer weaponry so it's not surprising that they aren't well known outside of Texas.

Essentially, there are two types of manufacturers...the high production ones like the companies you mentioned (Glock, Springfield, SIG, etc.) and there's smaller, much lower production custom builders (Nighthawk, Ed Brown, Wilson Combat, etc.) and then there's the really low-number builders (<100 firearms a year) that are better known regionally than nationwide.

 

I'm going off the ATF's manufacturing data and I didn't count a precise number so might be over 300 now. The data you linked to isn't as useful because lots of people have a license but aren't manufacturing anything currently. The manufacturing data is by location so it also is a little messy but at least paints or more current picture. I was surprised at how many companies there are that build fewer than 10 guns each year (a couple hundred of them in each category). That really skews the data. Of the mass producers in handguns Ruger, Smith&Wesson and Sig make 60% of the guns produced in the US, rifles are more competitive but shotguns are incredibly concentrated (Remington & Mossberg/Maverick together are 81% of production). Granted this doesn't count imports and we are now importing 5.5+ million firearms annually. Even if you're a custom manufacturer it seems like that must be more of a hobby than a job at that level of production. I guess that explains why you don't see them around a lot and they are probably heavily concentrated in certain states/areas.

[busdriver]

A custom 1911 can cost 5 or more thousand.

[TreeA10]

So the best place to start down the path to a CCL in Texas is where?

[Warrior]

On 12/5/2015 at 10:31 AM, disgruntledemployee said:

I bought my SR22 primarily as a teaching (and fun plinking) pistol for my wife and kids.  It has all the features most other semi-auto pistols have, it is easily controlled, and fits small hands for the lady and youtes.  It's also super easy to reload.  My wife used it to get her CCL and has since upgraded to a M&P Shield for carry.  I also looked at Walther, but didn't like the materials. 

Congratulations Dyess.  Thanks for leading the way, I hope others follow the same path!!!  Hey Base Commanders, HINT HINT!!!

Out

 

Just wait until you suppress that SR22.  I did it with mine and I just giggle when I'm shooting it now.  

[Warrior]

11 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

So the best place to start down the path to a CCL in Texas is where?

Arizona.

Only partially kidding.  I got my initial issue CHL in Texas - I found the class to be worthwhile and I'm glad I took it.  But when it came to renew I found myself not living in Texas (and this was before they changed the rules about renewals) so I couldn't very well attend the renewal class.

So I got my prints done at Bagram and mailed those with a check and I think a copy of my 522 to Arizona and now I have an AZ CHL.

If this is your first one, go to the class - and someone will be around to recommend an instructor - what city are you in/near?

[M2]

18 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

So the best place to start down the path to a CCL in Texas is where?

https://dps.texas.gov/RSD/CHL/faqs/

And where it used to be a CHL (concealed handgun license), it recently chance to a LTC (license to carry) as on 1 Jan 16 OC'ing will be allowed for those with those licenses (CHL/LTC).

[viper154]

So I want to buy myself a early Christmas present from my local BX but I have a feeling I may have issues "proving my residence". I am PCSing to base A in May of 2016, and I am currently TDY en route at base B, but both bases are in the same state. The base I am PCSing from is in a different state.  Looking at question 13 of the 4473 and the instructions it says "must be present in the state with intention to make home" I am currently here, and plan to reside here, but I am wondering if I can legally use those PCS orders that say May of 2016 to forefill the requirements of the 4473? Kind of a weird situation. Any advice is appreciated. 

[hispeed7721]

if you have orders to a base in the state you're living in, you should good to go, unless it's some crazy state like NY that has stupid laws

For example, if you're a resident of GA, but stationed at Eglin, you just show your orders to Eglin and you're good to buy whatever you want

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[HU&W]

Sorry if this has been previously mentioned.  The 2016 NDAA, as passed, contains a provision (sec 1087) that expands the authority of the CMP.  Now, instead of just being able to sell 30cal and .22 rifles, they can also sell up to 10,000 surplus 1911's per year.  Supposedly, the Army currently has about 100,000 in storage.  I'm personally looking forward to adding one to my collection.

[ATIS]

GI issue .45...good zombie killer.  Guess with a clip of only 7 rounds...it didn't trip the "hi-capacity" alarm. 

Cheers

ATIS

[M2]

14 hours ago, HU&W said:

Sorry if this has been previously mentioned.  The 2016 NDAA, as passed, contains a provision (sec 1087) that expands the authority of the CMP.  Now, instead of just being able to sell 30cal and .22 rifles, they can also sell up to 10,000 surplus 1911's per year.  Supposedly, the Army currently has about 100,000 in storage.  I'm personally looking forward to adding one to my collection.

Short version: Don't get too excited about this.  You won't see CMP selling 1911s anytime soon.  The plan was to sell 10K a year for ten years; but many speculate it may not even happen.  Here's why...

Quote

Sir, The CMP has no control over the outcome concerning the proposed legislative amendment that would change CMP’s enabling legislation by removing the word “rifle” and replacing it with “firearm”. The CMP will know the outcome concerning the legislation passing or not passing through the US House and US Senate at the same time in which all US Citizens find out. Everyone needs to keep in mind, even if the legislative amendment to CMP’s current enabling legislation passes, the US Army is still not bound to turnover 1911’s or shotguns to the CMP if it chooses not to. The US Army has complete control of the firearms in its possession not the CMP. Absolute best case scenario, the CMP is several years out from receiving anything if the legislation passes and the Army agrees to the transfer the surplus “firearms” to the CMP. Congressman Rogers (AL) and Congressman Latta (OH) are putting forth great effort to help the CMP. Both Congressmen have CMP operations in their states and they are helping a local business survive. Mark Johnson Chief Operating Officer Civilian Marksmanship Program 256-835-8455 Ext. 416 Civilian Marksmanship Program |

 

Also, unfortunately the word "may" is prevalent in 1911 portion of the Act (starting on pg 288)...

https://www.congress.gov/114/bills/s1356/BILLS-114s1356enr.pdf

Still, go to CMP's website and sign up for their newsletter.  If anything on this does happen, that is probably where you'll hear about it (officially) first...

[HU&W]

3 hours ago, M2 said:

Also, unfortunately the word "may" is prevalent in 1911 portion of the Act (starting on pg 288)...

Agreed.  On the bright side, there is at least one "shall" in there regarding determining a reasonable schedule of implementation.  So it can't just be ignored.  I'm holding out hope.

[HeloDude]

5 hours ago, HU&W said:

Agreed.  On the bright side, there is at least one "shall" in there regarding determining a reasonable schedule of implementation.  So it can't just be ignored.  I'm holding out hope.

I seem to remember a "shall" in the Second Amendment to The Constitution...and that "shall" seems to get ignored quite a bit.   

[M2]

Trust me, I am hoping and praying this becomes a reality; but the reality is we could be in for a very long wait until we see any of these...

[Lawman]

Well here is a step in the wrong direction....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/va-attorney-general-mark-herring-delivers-blow-to-gun-rights-advocates/2015/12/21/d72ce3d0-a821-11e5-9b92-dea7cd4b1a4d_story.html

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[HU&W]

Does anyone have experience with these type of holster?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-hcS5hpMCM

[brabus]

Interesting.  Related note, I got a crossbreed IWB about a month ago and really like it.  Comfortable, high quality build, perfect hold on the gun, good draw (for an IWB), etc.  Highly recommend them.

[hispeed7721]

Interesting.  Related note, I got a crossbreed IWB about a month ago and really like it.  Comfortable, high quality build, perfect hold on the gun, good draw (for an IWB), etc.  Highly recommend them.

2.

I've been carrying with a Crossbreed Supertuck for 5+ years and it's the highest quality and most comfortable IWB holster I've come across.

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