Gun Talk

[Learjetter]

Speaking of wheelguns...

Just took delivery of a new Ruger Bisley "New Model"  Blackhawk (.357/.38/9mm) convertible revolver w/5.5" barrel.  (Promotional photo)  I'm a fan of multiple caliber capable weapons since it increases the availability of ammo.

Backyard range report:  SIngle action is smooth and deliberate, with just enough tactile feedback to ensure you feel the hammer set without having to listen for a click, which can be difficult with good hearing protection on.  Loading gate notch and trigger guard opening are large enough for gloved use. Ejector ram spring is smooth, but ejector's tang is a little small for tightly-stuck cases and will pinch a bit when you bear down on it.

Grip is wide enough to provide stable base for both single hand grip, or Weaver-style teacup hold (it's a revolver, so other two-handed grip styles are not recommended as some damaging gas/powder escapes from the front of the cylinder--don't ask how I learned about that as a kid)

9mm kick is negligble -- not much more than 22MAG.  .38 and .357 produce obviously more recoil, but the weighting and balance make it easy to keep the muzzle under control, even shooting off-hand.

Cylinders are individually matched to the frame and numbered.  Cylinders fit snugly, action is smooth, and with loading gate open, you rotate the cylinder forward (to the right) to load/unload...but there's a catch in this model that permits a slight reverse motion to perfectly center the chamber in the gate (great for aligning the ejector perfectly during unloading too)

Sights are adjustable, and after a little tweaking, were dead on at 10 yds--I covered two of my 3 shot groups with a silver dollar. 

I shot both factory and reloaded ammo.  No major difficulties at all (had several OLD 9MM reload rounds that would NOT seat in the chamber--likely due to case width at the bottom of the case--they fed fine in the Kimber 9mm 1911 though)

Maintenance is straightforward--empty chambers, remove cylinder, boresnake chambers and barrel, re-assemble and wipe clean and sheened with your favorite oil/lube.

At a gunshow I bought a convertible leather holster (crossdraw vertical shoulder, horizonal shoulder, vertical chest, slanted chest) from a local leathermaker.  I also have a nylon drop leg holster and a typical gunbelt--the pistol rides nicely in all.  As a matter of personal taste and practicality, I don't recommend non-crossdraw hip holsters for big revolvers...its a challenge for me to draw a long-barreled pistol from a hip holster, but you can find them.  I also don't use the "western" gunbelt often, since I find the chest holster more convenient but it does fit and draw well from a gunbelt too, so knock yourself out, 

Overall, It's a fine, versatile wheelgun that's a pleasure to shoot.   If anyone cares: it was $599 N.I.B. at auction on gunbroker, (+3%+$25 shipping= $642 +$45 xfer fee)...so any price under $650 after tax at a gunshow or local dealer would probably be about right (for 2017)

(STS in there a couple times)

[Dynamite]

It seems like the Army selected a Sig made handgun to replace the M9. Which I'm sure will translate to the AF switching over as well down the road.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/19/army-picks-sig-sauer-replace-m9-service-pistol.html

Edited January 20, 2017 by Dynamite

[Guest]

It seems like the Army selected a Sig made handgun to replace the M9. Which I'm sure will translate to the AF switching over as well down the road.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/19/army-picks-sig-sauer-replace-m9-service-pistol.html

Well that's a damn shame, if true. The G17 would have made for a great service weapon for standard carry. The G26 would have made for an actual concealable weapon for aircrew.


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[HossHarris]

Glocks are awful. Just awful. 

[Day Man]

20 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

Glocks are awful. Just awful. 

[busdriver]

Glock stock sights are basically worthless as anything other than dovetail protectors, the triggers are awful, and they insist on putting stupid finger grooves and oddly shaped humps in the wrong places.  

But a barely trained monkey can completely rebuild one in 15 minutes with less than $50 worth of parts.

Glock has made its name with inexpensive guns that work well and are easy/cheap to maintain.  The combo is a wet dream for a large organization, maintaining a shit load of guns, shot by non pistol shooters.  

 

[M2]

On 1/12/2017 at 10:59 AM, Learjetter said:

Speaking of wheelguns...

Just took delivery of a new Ruger Bisley "New Model"  Blackhawk (.357/.38/9mm) convertible revolver w/5.5" barrel.  (Promotional photo)....

[Spoo]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 4:27 AM, Dynamite said:

It seems like the Army selected a Sig made handgun to replace the M9. Which I'm sure will translate to the AF switching over as well down the road.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/01/19/army-picks-sig-sauer-replace-m9-service-pistol.html

The Army did indeed select the Sig P320 to replace the M9. The Army also acts as the AF's Acquisition Executive for handguns, so yes, big blue will eventually transition to the Sig as well. Damn, who knew that ACQ 101 class would come in handy?  

[MilitaryToFinance]

Ammo question for the group. How do you pick your ammo loads? All of my shooting has been punching holes in paper so I've never cared that much about what I'm shooting. But for CCW or hunting where it matters more how did you settle on what you're using? How much is it really worth it to pay up for some of the specialty ammo?

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[Learjetter]

6 hours ago, MilitaryToFinance said:

Ammo question for the group. How do you pick your ammo loads? All of my shooting has been punching holes in paper so I've never cared that much about what I'm shooting. But for CCW or hunting where it matters more how did you settle on what you're using? How much is it really worth it to pay up for some of the specialty ammo?

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For target shooting handloads, I reduce my powder and mass of the bullet I'm using by at least 10%-20%. Be sure to be very careful with slower powders as too little charge can result in way too much overpressure as the bullets stays in the barrel too long.  I stay away from non-jacketed wadcutters at all times as I've found the lead fouling to be a ridiculous amount of work to remove, and I'm convinced the copper jacket results in cleaner lands and grooves and a smoother overall exit.  

For 9mm carry, I use Hornady 124gr JHP, with 4.5 grains of BE-86.  For 9mm target, I'll use 115gr FMJ Barry's, and 4.7 gr of Bullseye.  I have a 8 lb keg of RED DOT bought before the "troubles," and already put 4 pounds into shotshells...so I'm using it in pistol as well (mainly .357 and .38SP+--if you want the recipes, IM me). 

For rifle hunting (.300 WinMag or .30-06), I use a 180gr Nosler Partition boat-tail, and 76 grains (.300 WinMag)or 59 grains (.30-06 Spr) of RELODER19--I get 3000 FPS and excellent energy transfer on both.  I shoot the exact same in practice, as I don't want to do any changes to my shooting on the bench or in the elk woods.  In my .223, for hogs & such, I like 25 grains of RELODER15 and Sierra Tipped Matchking Boat tail in 69grains (lead-free).  For plinking or yotes, I'll use 55gr FMJ lead-alternative, cheapest brand I can find.

Pay for store bought ammo?  Not since 1988.

YMMV

[busdriver]

Just buy one of the modern JHPs for carry and call it a day.  Gold-Dot, HST, Critical Defense/Duty, etc.  You'll need to try it in your pistol to make sure it feeds well.  If chambering a round causes any bullet setback, limited the number of times you do that.  You shouldn't need to buy much, practice with cheaper ammo.

If you're loading yourself, have a velocity goal in mind and pick a powder that gets you that in the upper half of the published load data.

[BFM this]

9mm:
115 FMJ for plinking
147 HST otherwise. I shoot a mag or two every few trips to the range just to keep the supply rotated and test functionality.


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[F16Deuce]

13 hours ago, MilitaryToFinance said:

Ammo question for the group. How do you pick your ammo loads? All of my shooting has been punching holes in paper so I've never cared that much about what I'm shooting. But for CCW or hunting where it matters more how did you settle on what you're using? How much is it really worth it to pay up for some of the specialty ammo?

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The good stuff is worthwhile.  Plenty of good choices as mentioned.  I carry Hornady and Winchester PDX.  For range ammo, check out www.freedommunitions.com and https://www.ammonv.com/.  Both are good for the range.

[tac airlifter]

New HK rifle for those of you, like me, who are hoping this comes to the US:

https://www.hkpro.com/forum/attachments/hk-long-gun-talk/92018d1486814102-hk433-new-assault-rifle-hk-1486443851166785.pdf

I like the 416 but it's heavy.  I was uninterested in the MR 556 though, just too expensive.  If they can make a 433 available for under 2.5k it'll compete with the SCAR and high end piston ARs market & I think it'll sell well.

[ATIS]

+1 for Gold Dot....in any caliber.

If you are shooting a .357 short barrel, 38SPCL +P are the way to go (IMO). 

Cheers

ATIS

[M2]

On 11/16/2016 at 7:23 PM, ATIS said:

https://urbancarryholsters.com/holsters-71/original-urban-carry/original-urban-carry-holster-black.html

Anyone have any experience with this system?

Cheers

ATIS

I know it's been a few months, but this video shows why these are pretty much useless (may required a Facebook account to watch)...

 

[MilitaryToFinance]

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/published/141945a.p.pdf?utm_content=buffer37be3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Bad news from 4th Circuit. Maryland scary gun ban and magazine ban both ruled constitutional. Main precedent DC v Heller doesn't apply to weapons of war and AR/AK variants are considered weapons of war by the court.

[Warrior]

https://www.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinions/published/141945a.p.pdf?utm_content=buffer37be3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Bad news from 4th Circuit. Maryland scary gun ban and magazine ban both ruled constitutional. Main precedent DC v Heller doesn't apply to weapons of war and AR/AK variants are considered weapons of war by the court.

Not applying strict scrutiny to a constitutional issue is a mistake. Hopefully the Supreme Court gets this one right.

[Learjetter]

On 2/13/2017 at 5:04 PM, Kiloalpha said:

LJ, how much was your reloading setup? Always considered starting (I keep my brass), just never pursued it further.

I have a single stage RCBS RockChucker Press (w/powder measure and case trimmer), which I got as a wedding/housewarming gift from my FIL 30 years ago, but cost about $300 or so today.  Dies you can get anywhere (Academy, Bass Pro, Cabelas, Midway USA) and run about $30 per set.  There is a local gun shop I frequent for bullets, powder, primers and shot--I like the fellas there and don't mind paying a couple bucks more there since even their prices will beat online guys + shipping.  Next to my Rockchucker my son has his MEC Grabber progressive in 12 ga (was ~$450) and a Lee Load-All II in 20ga ($60).   For infrequent shotgun, the Lee Load-All is fine.  For volume, you definitely want a progressive.  I can do:  .300Win Mag, .30-06, .223 in rifle, and .38, .357, and 9mm in pistol.  I thought about "upgrading" to a progressive press, but when you factor in changing calibers as often as I do, it's actually simpler (but a little slower) to use the single stage--just plan your loading in stages.  I collect all brass and deprime with a universal deprimer die, then tumble/polish as needed, and separate into calibers.  Then I try to prime magazine batches +2 of each caliber (i.e. 4 mags 223 (122), 4 mags 9mm (62), etc) all at once before switching calibers and dies.  Once the brass is cleaned and primed, the charging and bullet seating is a simple affair--put on some tunes and crank away (sts).  Since I'm single stage, I have to seat/check each bullet seat and crimp each time I set up--that's the reason for the extra (+2) rounds per batch.  

I tend to give a lot of my handloads away (Birthdays, Christmas)--ammo makes a great gift! 

 

[Learjetter]

On 2/17/2017 at 9:28 AM, ATIS said:

+1 for Gold Dot....in any caliber.

If you are shooting a .357 short barrel, 38SPCL +P are the way to go (IMO). 

Cheers

ATIS

Concur

[busdriver]

On 2/13/2017 at 6:04 PM, Kiloalpha said:

LJ, how much was your reloading setup? Always considered starting (I keep my brass), just never pursued it further.

I would skip the single stage press unless you're only interested in reloading for bolt guns.  If you shoot in any volume at all, it's a non-starter.  

My first press was a Lyman turret(which is really a glorified single stage), which I loaded on until it had paid for itself in savings and promptly moved on to a progressive, Dillon 550 in my case.  The Dillon's are a bit more expensive (the 550 is around $450 vice $390 for a Hornady LnL AP) given the feature set and it's arguable whether they're actually worth the premium at that price point.  Once you bump up to 650 and 1050 land, the DIllons don't really have any competition.

Something else to consider is how much you shoot will probably increase once the cost per round goes down unless you're strictly budgeting.  The turret press made more sense before I doubled my shooting volume.  I loaded somewhere around 20k rounds on the 550 before upgrading again.  I still have it though, and use it for all calibers other than 9mm.

[hispeed7721]

I would skip the single stage press unless you're only interested in reloading for bolt guns.  If you shoot in any volume at all, it's a non-starter.  

Concur, 100%. I've got the Lee Turret press and it is the perfect mix b/w single stage and progressive. It is very beginner friendly when needed and can be used to produce at a decent rate once you're comfortable (obviously not as much as a full progressive press)


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[busdriver]

I'll add: Be honest with yourself about how much you expect to shoot, and how much time you want to spend loading.  The turret press was an honest 200 rounds an hour, the 550 is more like 400.  A progressive with a case feeder and a bullet feeder doubles that again.  Full retard automated 1050 gets you over 1k.

If you have an inkling that you might like competitive shooting (USPSA, IDPA, 3Gun, doesn't matter) go try it before you buy a press.  If you get hooked, you will out-grow the turret very quickly.

[brickhistory]

not my photo

 

Comparing apples to oranges to tangerines to cannons

- one all-encompassing, bigly, yuuuge STS for the entire post -

So she who must be obeyed (SWMBO) gets "headaches" everytime I ask her to go with me to the range to practice with her CCW J-frame - S&W Model 642 Airweight .38 special.  In her defense, and as I've written previously, it is not a pleasant gun to shoot.  For some real-world situation, I imagine you wouldn't notice it, but for practice, the recoil with the incredibly light revolver gets old quickly.  I'm good after about 20 rounds.  She doesn't even like to finish one cylinder.  That does not make for great accuracy should it be necessary.  Her rationale of utter reliability and simplicity of operation is sound, however, not practicing is not safe and she knows it.

So, being the thoughtful husband that I am, I have talked with her regarding those ultra-reliable semi-automatics available and demonstrate such with my EDC XDS .45.  I let her know I wouldn't let her carry a jam-o-matic, so let's see what we can find out.

Using my collection, she was ok - dry-firing- with the S&W Chief's Special 9mm, the S&W 3913, and the M&P9c.  She hasn't fired any of them yet.

From my personal experience, I know that the Chief's Special is a snappy little bastard.  The 3913 is a semi-collectable (it's out of production, parts are hard to source, and the value keeps going up a bit).  The M&P9c is a great gun, but the small magazines make it too short for me to shoot comfortably.  (Using the adapter and full-size magazines, I love shooting it).  But I'm not the one that would be carrying/shooting it, so it's a player for her.

Since she's out of town for a few weeks, I researched the M&P Shield in 9mm since it's nearly the same size as the 3913 and, as far as I can tell, as reliable as the M&P9c.  Part of that research meant I had to buy one.  Convenient excuse so I'm went for it.

Went to the range this morning to side by side by side compare the Shield vs. the M&P9c vs. my XDS.

The Shield is thinner both in slide and grip than my XDS.  For my large hands, perhaps a bit too thin.  Trigger finger wrapped past the first knuckle on the skinny trigger.  Nothing that can't be overcome with training/practice, but that's the first impression.

Shooting it, the trigger was "meh."  Got better as I kept shooting, but this is a good candidate for the Apex trigger kit as I did for the M&P9c and full-size M&P9 that is my nightstand pistol.

With the 8-round magazine, I could put all fingers and the heel of my palm on the pistol and it felt comfortable.  Needs a bit more girth for me (I said, the STS has been accomplished!).

The 7-rounder left my pinky dangling and not enough back pressure on the heel of my hand.

I used 200 rounds of 115gr. FMJ. No issues whatsoever.  I did not shoot any of my preferred Cor-Bon DTX hollow-point because I can't seem to find more.  A factory order has been backordered for more than a month and retailers locally are out.

Still, shooting this 9mm is a dang sight less snappy and uncomfortable than my .45 XDS with the 5-round magazine.  Hence, I carry a 6+1 magazine and not the baby one.  However, there is no disguising the 'grunt' factor of shooting the .45 in such a small package.  As noted in a previous report, after 100 rounds, I'm more than ready to not shoot it anymore.

I put the Truglo sights on the Shield and already had them on the 9c and the XDS.  Very positive things to say about those sights - bright, big, easy to acquire.

Overall, I like the Shield.  I can see why it is wildly popular.  Skinny, light, decent shooter.  It fits all my XDS holsters including my car and truck-mounted ones.

SWMBO returns in 10 days and will have her choice.

Edited February 26, 2017 by brickhistory

[disgruntledemployee]

One weakness on the M&P Shield (at least when I bought mine) was the recoil spring assembly.  The metal washer/disk that engages the barrel is thin and prone to bending.  It was too easy to bend if not lined up perfectly for reassembly.  When I called customer support, then didn't even ask for my serial number, just my address to ship out a new one.  Perhaps Smith and/or Wesson has improved this part on the Shield.  "They" make better aftermarket stainless drop-in assemblies.

Out