Gun Talk

[brabus]

Have carried a 43 for the last 1.5 yrs...I like it.  My wife also carries it in her purse when she's not with me (e.g. I'm carrying).  I put the +2 mag extensions on not only for capacity, but for a better grip.  They do not make a big difference in terms of printing/comfort while wearing; I use an IWB holster from crossbread.

[Vertigo]

On 3/8/2018 at 9:08 PM, HeloDude said:

Yet a cake company can't afford to not sell a cake to an extremely small segment of the population?

Totally agree on your last sentence. 

I'm just making an assumption, of course, that the cake company is a small business with not a lot of profit margin. I also going on the assumption that alienating an extremely small segment of the population also alienates a larger segment of population that supports that community, and that could potentially be enough of a cut in business that they are no longer viable. 

My assumptions could also be wildly off base.

[otsap]

11 hours ago, Vertigo said:

I'm just making an assumption, of course, that the cake company is a small business with not a lot of profit margin. I also going on the assumption that alienating an extremely small segment of the population also alienates a larger segment of population that supports that community, and that could potentially be enough of a cut in business that they are no longer viable. 

My assumptions could also be wildly off base.

And this is why no one should be forced to sell a product to another person.  They should be able to make that decision and reap the possible consequences.  The cake shop may well go out of business.  But this logic applies to Dick's as well.  It would be a mistake to think that the gun rights community is small or inactive.  I would suggest that Dick's, despite its largess, put itself at greater risk for business losses than the cake shop, despite its small stature.  Of course, had the cake shop's decision stayed a local matter, it wouldn't have been as big a risk as it is now that the media got a hold of it.  The lawsuit against Dick's should follow the same path as the cake shop, meaning both should be found in favor of the business, imho.  Revealing a tiny bit of the virute-signalling hypocrisy on the left would also be.........(standby).........the icing on the cake.

On 3/7/2018 at 7:37 AM, Vertigo said:

I agree. I don't believe the baker should have to sell to a homosexual couple if they choose not to, even though they are a protected class (and 18 year olds aren't). 

The real question is why you, as a small business owner, wouldn't want that business? It's not like you're approving of their lifestyle, you're just profiting from making a cake.

 

Curious if you have a source for this as it would counter my knowledge of the subject.  Under federal law, which I'm using since the discussion was about the Supreme Court and Constitutional rights, sexual orientation and age are equally protected.  In other words, neither of them carry a suspect or quasi-suspect classification, meaning that they currently fall under rational basis review with regards to discrimination.  There have been a few opinions by U.S. District Courts, and one Appellate Court, that indicated the possibility of quasi-suspect classification for sexual orientation, but nothing more.

State law on this issue is nice and all, but discrimination cases tend to bring up constitutional issues.  That, combined with the Supremacy Clause, put these cases square in the federal court's wheelhouse.

[drewpey]

On 3/12/2018 at 6:20 PM, otsap said:

And this is why no one should be forced to sell a product to another person.

I think it's less about being forced to sell a product but rather being forced to treat everyone fairly.  Business owners usually reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, but their rights end when someone else's begin.  People have the right to not be discriminated against if they are a member of a class of people identified as needing protection.  This exact discussion occurred in the 60s and was part of the impetus for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which is why we have these protections.  Laissez-faire doesn't always work.

[matmacwc]

So much nope

[busdriver]

1 hour ago, drewpey said:

 Laissez-faire doesn't always work.

Jim Crow laws weren't very Laissez-faire.

[Vertigo]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:20 PM, otsap said:

Curious if you have a source for this as it would counter my knowledge of the subject.  Under federal law, which I'm using since the discussion was about the Supreme Court and Constitutional rights, sexual orientation and age are equally protected.  In other words, neither of them carry a suspect or quasi-suspect classification, meaning that they currently fall under rational basis review with regards to discrimination.  There have been a few opinions by U.S. District Courts, and one Appellate Court, that indicated the possibility of quasi-suspect classification for sexual orientation, but nothing more.

State law on this issue is nice and all, but discrimination cases tend to bring up constitutional issues.  That, combined with the Supremacy Clause, put these cases square in the federal court's wheelhouse.

Basing this on the fact that age, as a protected class (over 40), is only listed in the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 and not in the Civil Right Act of 1964 in which sex, race, religion, national origin are listed.

[JS]

Curious, why are there so many political posts on the gun thread???  Isn't there a separate thread for that?  

Anyway does anybody have any experiences with the Glock Blue Label program?  Did you purchase online or in person?  I have heard some places require military ID, of course, plus orders to a base somewhere in the local area.  This might be a problem for me since my reserve unit is very far away, plus Reservists don't exactly have "orders" to be stationed at a certain unit.  It looks like GT Distributors has some good prices, so I was thinking of going with them.  Are all the blue label prices standardized, or does each store set their own prices?

I'm still leaning heavily toward the Glock 43 for a single stack 9mm concealed carry, unless anyone has any other strong opinions on a good 9mm for carry.  

[brabus]

I only had to show a mil ID to the guy at the store when I bought the 43 through the blue label program - I think it was around $350. The prices are not set by Glock, so they may vary between stores, but generally ~$100 off normal prices.

[ClearedHot]

21 minutes ago, JS said:

Curious, why are there so many political posts on the gun thread???  Isn't there a separate thread for that?  

Anyway does anybody have any experiences with the Glock Blue Label program?  Did you purchase online or in person?  I have heard some places require military ID, of course, plus orders to a base somewhere in the local area.  This might be a problem for me since my reserve unit is very far away, plus Reservists don't exactly have "orders" to be stationed at a certain unit.  It looks like GT Distributors has some good prices, so I was thinking of going with them.  Are all the blue label prices standardized, or does each store set their own prices?

I'm still leaning heavily toward the Glock 43 for a single stack 9mm concealed carry, unless anyone has any other strong opinions on a good 9mm for carry.  

I did a lot of research (and shooting), and narrowed my search to the Glock 43 and M&P 9 for my concealed carry weapon. 

I am a fairly large dude and have big hands so grip has always been an issue for me with smaller handguns.   Both are easily concealed in the sticky holster I use in my waistband.  I found the Glock a bit thicker and shorter, the shortness actually impacted my grip and ultimately my accuracy.  The M&P 9 being thinner and a bit longer allows me to get all of my fingers on the grip and for me personally makes it feel more stable.  Both shot well but I was driving nails with the M&P 9 (so was my wife), so in the end I went with this weapon and have been very pleased carrying it for the past two years.

 

[viper154]

5 hours ago, JS said:

Curious, why are there so many political posts on the gun thread???  Isn't there a separate thread for that?  

Anyway does anybody have any experiences with the Glock Blue Label program?  Did you purchase online or in person?  I have heard some places require military ID, of course, plus orders to a base somewhere in the local area.  This might be a problem for me since my reserve unit is very far away, plus Reservists don't exactly have "orders" to be stationed at a certain unit.  It looks like GT Distributors has some good prices, so I was thinking of going with them.  Are all the blue label prices standardized, or does each store set their own prices?

I'm still leaning heavily toward the Glock 43 for a single stack 9mm concealed carry, unless anyone has any other strong opinions on a good 9mm for carry.  

Only military ID, but I’m in a rather small military town. I would think that plus whatever your state requires for firearms purchase should be g2g. Got about $125 off a G19, and of course it comes with the extra mag and night sites  

I bought the 42 before the 43 came out, I like it for a single stack, I have the mag extender and that helps with my grip, I am bigger guy. I prefer the double stack 19 IWB as long I am not tucking in a shirt, better grip and more lead, but I think you will be happy with the 43. 

[M2]

On 3/7/2018 at 11:37 AM, Vertigo said:

I agree. I don't believe the baker should have to sell to a homosexual couple if they choose not to, even though they are a protected class (and 18 year olds aren't). 

Ad therein lies the problem.  Why are homosexuals protected, and 18 year olds not?  That's discrimination...

[matmacwc]

2 hours ago, M2 said:

Ad therein lies the problem.  Why are homosexuals protected, and 18 year olds not?  That's discrimination...

That is the problem with the whole thing, its all targeted discrimination, under the rule of law and force of gun.

[Warrior]

Curious, why are there so many political posts on the gun thread???  Isn't there a separate thread for that?  
Anyway does anybody have any experiences with the Glock Blue Label program?  Did you purchase online or in person?  I have heard some places require military ID, of course, plus orders to a base somewhere in the local area.  This might be a problem for me since my reserve unit is very far away, plus Reservists don't exactly have "orders" to be stationed at a certain unit.  It looks like GT Distributors has some good prices, so I was thinking of going with them.  Are all the blue label prices standardized, or does each store set their own prices?
I'm still leaning heavily toward the Glock 43 for a single stack 9mm concealed carry, unless anyone has any other strong opinions on a good 9mm for carry.  

You’re going to have to ask your LGS what they want. If you have an in-state drivers license then orders shouldn’t be a big deal.

[brickhistory]

On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:53 AM, ClearedHot said:

 The M&P 9 being thinner and a bit longer allows me to get all of my fingers on the grip and for me personally makes it feel more stable.  Both shot well but I was driving nails with the M&P 9 (so was my wife), so in the end I went with this weapon and have been very pleased carrying it for the past two years.

 

While I am a big fan of the M&P 9 (full size is my night stand gun) and the M&P 9c, I find both of them very thick compared to the many, many single stacks available.  Confirm you are referring to the M&P 9 and not a Shield?  

For the current technical question/topic, I carry an XD-S (albeit in .45).  I really like it for comfortable carry and reliability.  I have to assume that the XD-S in 9mm would be the same.  Wife carries a S&W Shield 9mm.  Very comfortable, easily concealable, reliable.

Not a Glock fan - just don't like the looks nor the grip angle.  Just doesn't feel right to me.  My opinion, not a knock on Glocks; they must be doing something right.

For old school alternatives, look at the older S&Ws - 2nd/3rd/4th gen metal products produced, largely, before polymer took over the world.  My favorite is the 3913.

 

For the political topic at hand, it's all fun and games if it's your pet cause that gets supported, not so much when it's the other guy's because he's obviously wrong.

So, you (whoever you are) should naturally be able to control those people and things you don't like.  Fairness and individualism be damned...

[JS]

Yeah, I'm definitely in the market for a single stack 9mm as opposed to the fatter double stacks.  In reading, I have it narrowed down to the S&W Shield and the Glock 43, both seem to get great reviews online.  The thing is that even with the large discount from the Glock Blue Label program, the glock is still like $360ish while I can get the Shield for less than that online with no discount. 

Oh, well, I guess my next step is to head to the gun store and lay  hands on them both. 

[ClearedHot]

On 3/16/2018 at 3:29 PM, brickhistory said:

While I am a big fan of the M&P 9 (full size is my night stand gun) and the M&P 9c, I find both of them very thick compared to the many, many single stacks available.  Confirm you are referring to the M&P 9 and not a Shield? 

I am indeed talking about the M&P 9 Shield

[matmacwc]

On 3/17/2018 at 11:46 AM, JS said:

Yeah, I'm definitely in the market for a single stack 9mm as opposed to the fatter double stacks.

I'm in exactly the same boat, leaning Glock 43, tell us how the range went.

Edited March 18, 2018 by matmacwc

[JS]

Well I picked up this new toy today, the M&P 15-22, for $335 + $35 local FFL fee (seem to remember it being $20 last time, but oh well).  I haven't shot it yet, but it seems like it will be a blast to play with.  My initial impressions are that it is very light, and feels very plasticy - almost like a toy - because, well it's made mostly of plastic/polymer.  It feels about half as light as a real AR, and the magazine didn't slide out when I hit the release.  The charging handle doesn't come out as far either, but I read about that and the polymer upper/lower thing so none of this was a surprise.  The MBUS sights and stock are as expected - real.  Also moving the safety felt kind of cheap (again due to the polymer) and you can see the model number is molded into the polymer as opposed to stamped like it would be with metal.  But no big deal there either. Seems to break down similar to a regular AR as well. 

 

While at the local gun store, I handled the Shield as well as the Glock 43.  I'm tall with XL hands (at least that's what size nitrile gloves and Home Depot work glove size I wear, LOL).  The 43 didn't fit in my hand - I thought they sawed off the last inch of the grip.  I asked the lady for the pinky extension thing and she said it was already on!  The Shield was a very comfortable fit, and my pinky sat nicely on the extension of the +1 magazine that comes with it.  From online reading only, i was all but sold on the Glock 43, but now I am totally sold on the M&P shield (maybe next month after the wife finds out about this last buy).  There was something about the grip as well that just felt right.  I didn't have time to shoot either of them (they have rentals there at the range). 
 

So I wanted the Shield with the thumb safety, but they only had the 9mm without for $430, which I thought was a tad high.  She did have a .40 Shield, with safety and with Crimson Trace laser for $430 also.  That seemed like a great deal, but I am not sure if I want to go the .40 route, mainly due to the ammo cost and because I think ammo will go up in price in the future as more departments get away from that caliber.  Plus I hadn't even considered a laser on a concealed carry until playing with this one.  It didn't add hardly any weight or extra length/width to the pistol.  Both the .40 and the 9mm shield seemed to weight the exact same and have almost the exact same dimensions.  You lose a round with the .40, but according the lady there, the .40 packs much more of a punch (I know, I know, there is a  lot of controversy there and it wasn't the time to start a long discussion with her).  

The crappy thing is that I will have to pay local sales tax, which would make the above guns more in the $470 range each.  I can find these online for like $320 with a $30 FFL fee.  Part of me wants to buy local and support the local shop, especially after the help they gave me, but a big part of me feels like I am getting ripped off with the $100+ higher price. 

 

[HossHarris]

Try a 1911. 

[F16Deuce]

On 3/15/2018 at 10:23 AM, JS said:

Curious, why are there so many political posts on the gun thread???  Isn't there a separate thread for that?  

Anyway does anybody have any experiences with the Glock Blue Label program?  Did you purchase online or in person?  I have heard some places require military ID, of course, plus orders to a base somewhere in the local area.  This might be a problem for me since my reserve unit is very far away, plus Reservists don't exactly have "orders" to be stationed at a certain unit.  It looks like GT Distributors has some good prices, so I was thinking of going with them.  Are all the blue label prices standardized, or does each store set their own prices?

I'm still leaning heavily toward the Glock 43 for a single stack 9mm concealed carry, unless anyone has any other strong opinions on a good 9mm for carry.  

I’ve found blue label prices to be somewhat standard, though I’ve found in store prices cheaper than online for blue label guns.  I purchased in person.  All I needed was my mil ID, orders (have an out of state license), and concealed carry permit (to avoid paying the background check fee).  The Nellis Gun Club is a blue label dealer.  I gave them those three things, filled out the paperwork and was done in 5 minutes.  

As far as a carry gun, it depends on what you can shoot well, how you want to carry it (ankle holster, inside wast band, outside the waste band, etc), what capacity you want, etc.  A smaller gun is inherently more difficult to shoot for an inexperienced shooter because they are more snappy.  

The pistols I own are the M&P Shield 9, Glock 19, and Glock 34.  I carry the Shield 9 to and from work in a Galco ankle holster or around in a Stealthgear appendix carry holster.  I carry my 19 in an appendix holster as well, it’s be too big to carry in an ankle holster to and from work. The 34 is my competition gun.  I went with the Shield because it was on sale for 299 from Palmetto State Armory and I like them.  I had shot it before and liked it and hadn’t shot the 43.  I added an Apex trigger shoe, sear, safety plunger and spring, and Trijicon HD sights.  It shoots great.  

If I had to do it again I’d likely go with a Glock 26 or maybe the 43.  While I shoot the Shield really well, I’m actually like the Glock grip angle and how they shoot.  Glocks are also easier to work on and upgrade without needing a gunsmith, in my opinion.  In both of my Glocks I’ve added a Johnny Glocks trigger.  They are amazing, to the point I’m not even jealous of 2011’s.  They feel very much 1911 to me (how I had him build my triggers).  You can now order from his site via click/buy.  Previously you had to call him and go over the exact details of what you wanted (which you can still do).  You can check out his videos on YouTube.  Being able to buy one of his triggers is a point for the Glock in my opinion.

 

 

[JS]

10 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Try a 1911. 

I've had a Springfield 1911 for almost 10 years.  I never considered carrying it.  It's about twice the weight of some of these new polymer single stack 9s or 380s plus a lot more bulky.  Although I do love shooting it, it's our living room home defense gun. 

[ClearedHot]

3 minutes ago, JS said:

I've had a Springfield 1911 for almost 10 years.  I never considered carrying it.  It's about twice the weight of some of these new polymer single stack 9s or 380s plus a lot more bulky.  Although I do love shooting it, it's our living room home defense gun. 

Fo Sho.

I have a Kimber and my Grandfather's issued 1911 he carried through WWII, both are way to big to be a viable concealed carry.

[HossHarris]

Heavier, yes!

bulkier?  Meh. I never thought so. Try a shorter (3”) barrel for concealed carry. It’s awesome, my 3” shoots just as well as my 5” at ccw type defensive ranges, you get .45 inch holes in things, and it makes a wonderful blunt object when you’re out of ammo. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by HossHarris

[ClearedHot]

So today a good guy with a gun in a school stopped a bad guy with a gun in a school.  Liberal skulls exploding everywhere.