Gun Talk

[brabus]

I’m not worried about legal in my state - the Sheriff will congratulate me on winning via a phone call since his deputies still won’t have arrived at my house. But I understand that’s not everyone’s state. That said, I don’t think it’s a good idea to let lawyer BS drive your “tactics.” And we’re all not obtuse to the point we don’t know there’s a right and wrong way to conduct yourself (including words) if you do interact with LE, lawyers, etc. Know the law, but no rational law is going to dictate injuring vs killing, using birdshot vs. slugs, etc. Batshit crazy states like CA or NY may, but that’s one’s own problem for living in those states to begin with. 
 

Birdshot - eh, go for it, I’m not saying it will do nothing, but I also don’t know a single pro I’ve interacted with who would ever suggest that as your first choice. 15 yr old punk coming through your window for a smash and grab, probably stops the threat. A couple strong 25 yr old men hopped up on meth (or if applicable in one’s area, a gang mis-IDing their house for a rival target), good luck with that one. 
 

Overall though, as a generic statement, practice with what you’ll use and you’ll be prepared. Think you’re going to unlock that safe in the middle of the night under stress to grab the 45 handgun you haven’t shot in 8 months - you’re fucked. 

[ClearedHot]

Whatever you choose for home defense I hope you practice with that weapon or "those weapons."

I keep all of my weapons secure so for immediate reaction I can roll out of bed on the floor and put either hand on a biometeric gun case.  I keep two pistols in there, a Beretta M9 (I know I know....but I can drive nails with the M9 and shot expert everytime).  I also have a Glock 19 with a couple of 30 round mags. 

I picked the Glock because the 30 round mags are compatible with the Ruger PC charger which is 12 steps away in a closet safe.  I also have the A300 and if the safe and if there is time I would prefer the A300 running slugs and 00 Buck.  The A300 holds 8, I have another 7 on the gun and I keep a giant bandolier attached to the side of the safe that I can throw over my neck.  On the range the A300 with 00 Buck is devastating out to 75', with slugs 300' is not out of the question but would not be my first choice for mid to long range.

If there is no time the PC Charger is in the stowed position so I can move fast, almost as fast as a pistol.  I keep several mags with the Charger and have them situated so I can grab them in the dark.  If I have time to take a side step the brace on the Charger folds out quick and it drives nails.

If I make it to my office and the big safe I have several choices but will likely grab one of several ARs with lights and red dots.  Have a .44 Mag for dramatic effect and post fight taunting.

[arg]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

  Have a .44 Mag for dramatic effect and post fight taunting.

 

 

You think it's enough?

 

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Whatever you choose for home defense I hope you practice with that weapon or "those weapons."

I keep all of my weapons secure so for immediate reaction I can roll out of bed on the floor and put either hand on a biometeric gun case.  I keep two pistols in there, a Beretta M9 (I know I know....but I can drive nails with the M9 and shot expert everytime).  I also have a Glock 19 with a couple of 30 round mags. 

I picked the Glock because the 30 round mags are compatible with the Ruger PC charger which is 12 steps away in a closet safe.  I also have the A300 and if the safe and if there is time I would prefer the A300 running slugs and 00 Buck.  The A300 holds 8, I have another 7 on the gun and I keep a giant bandolier attached to the side of the safe that I can throw over my neck.  On the range the A300 with 00 Buck is devastating out to 75', with slugs 300' is not out of the question but would not be my first choice for mid to long range.

If there is no time the PC Charger is in the stowed position so I can move fast, almost as fast as a pistol.  I keep several mags with the Charger and have them situated so I can grab them in the dark.  If I have time to take a side step the brace on the Charger folds out quick and it drives nails.

If I make it to my office and the big safe I have several choices but will likely grab one of several ARs with lights and red dots.  Have a .44 Mag for dramatic effect and post fight taunting.

Stop with the PC Charger! I've already blown my gun budget for the year.

[brabus]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

my gun budget for the year.

You’re doing it wrong! (Pro tip: keep the appearance of a budget up with the wife)

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

You’re doing it wrong! (Pro tip: keep the appearance of a budget up with the wife)

I don't know what you're talking about... My wife is definitely not looking over my shoulder right... now.. 

[Smokin]

11 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

This is my concern, and it's been shown in gel testing. Problem is, gel testing just isn't as transferable to actual flesh and bone testing, especially at the fringe. I'd wanna see some actual testing on pig corpses (or living pigs) to know that a specific subsonic 300 out of my 6.75" barrel will actually expand.

Taking your chosen or potential home defense weapons pig hunting is a great trial by fire.  Pigs are similar enough to humans that I understand military trauma medicine schools used to (maybe still do?) shoot pigs then have the students try to patch them up to practice for human gunshot wounds.  Gel tests are only worth so much as humans are not made of uniform gel.  You see a gel test that only penetrates six inches (that's what she said) and you might think the round is bad.  Until you realize that a human chest is mostly lungs surrounded by a relatively thin section of muscle/tissue/ribs.  In the hunting world, I hear far too many people talk about 'knock-down power' as if that were some quantifiable thing that actually kills something.  Animals and people alike die from either loss of blood pressure (bleeding out, heart shot, etc) or from stopping the signals that control the body (head shot, severing the spine, etc).

Shooting pigs has made me realize that short of an actual cannon, they're going to take a bit to die from a lung shot regardless of the cartridge, including rounds far more powerful than most would consider for home defense.  I've had fellow hunters lose a medium sized deer hit with a 300 win mag in open country because it ran away.  Pigs will also fall over in their tracks with quality bullet in 9mm if you shoot their head/neck/spine/shoulder.  People will be no different.

I'm going to get some of the rounds that @brabus mentioned for the 300BO and give them a try.  I'd also highly recommend anyone looking at a new bullet to look at Barnes all copper bullets (haven't tried them in 300BO).  I've shot 7-8 animals ranging from pigs to elk with them and the furthest any have run has been around 30 yards.  All have opened completely and the couple bullets I've recovered have retained their pedals despite hitting bone.  I have them in my home defense guns for that reason.

[FourFans]

14 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Whatever you choose for home defense I hope you practice with that weapon or "those weapons."

I keep all of my weapons secure so for immediate reaction I can roll out of bed on the floor and put either hand on a biometeric gun case.  I keep two pistols in there, a Beretta M9 (I know I know....but I can drive nails with the M9 and shot expert everytime).  I also have a Glock 19 with a couple of 30 round mags. 

I picked the Glock because the 30 round mags are compatible with the Ruger PC charger which is 12 steps away in a closet safe.  I also have the A300 and if the safe and if there is time I would prefer the A300 running slugs and 00 Buck.  The A300 holds 8, I have another 7 on the gun and I keep a giant bandolier attached to the side of the safe that I can throw over my neck.  On the range the A300 with 00 Buck is devastating out to 75', with slugs 300' is not out of the question but would not be my first choice for mid to long range.

If there is no time the PC Charger is in the stowed position so I can move fast, almost as fast as a pistol.  I keep several mags with the Charger and have them situated so I can grab them in the dark.  If I have time to take a side step the brace on the Charger folds out quick and it drives nails.

If I make it to my office and the big safe I have several choices but will likely grab one of several ARs with lights and red dots.  Have a .44 Mag for dramatic effect and post fight taunting.

Seriously though, Mary Esther can be a rough neighborhood.  Meth is a hellva drug.

Edited November 25 by FourFans

[brabus]

10 hours ago, Smokin said:

I'd also highly recommend anyone looking at a new bullet to look at Barnes all copper bullets

Haven’t shot those. Are you reloading with them or buying the factory ammo?

[brabus]

10 hours ago, Smokin said:

I hear far too many people talk about 'knock-down power' as if that were some quantifiable thing that actually kills something.

Shack. I watched a guy watch a muley run away after shooting it with a 300 win mag…then my son completely disintegrated both lungs and dropped another muley where it stood with a 6.5CR (the guy eventually found his muley 400 yds away). 243s have taken many elk and my sons new-to-him 30-30 has a few elk and bear to its name. Hell, the 220 swift has killed tons of AK game in its history. It’s mostly about taking accurate, high pK shots with quality ammo, but the industry has convinced many hunters that’s not the case. 

[Smokin]

28 minutes ago, brabus said:

Haven’t shot those. Are you reloading with them or buying the factory ammo?

Factory.  I'm thinking about getting into reloading, buy my wife tells me I have too many hobbies already...

I think Barnes bullets are absolutely awesome.  As I mentioned before, I dropped a pig in its tracks with a 9mm.  The bullet punched through bone and lodged in the spine.  I found it cutting up the pig and the pedals were perfectly intact.  No lead bullet is going to do that.  Also, since I eat what I shoot, the thought of a lead bullet retaining only 50% of its weight is disturbing.  That means there is a lot of lead in that meat.  Copper bullets retain close to 100% of their weight and copper is ok to eat and even good for you in small quantities.  So, for me, copper bullets are a no brainier.  They work better to drop the game quickly and they're better for the meat.

If you don't reload, there are a couple ways to get Barnes rounds.  Barnes makes a few rounds themselves but they're a bit tough to find.  Same with some other manufacturers.  Federal makes a bunch of rounds with Barnes bullets and they're at most stores and on www.guidefitter.com with a military discount for not much more than you'd buy lead locally.

[TreeA10]

A moose in Alaska soaked up a BDU-33, got up, and ran about 400 yards.  That's what I heard, didn't see it, never saw confirming video, I can't remember who told me, please refer all questions to my attorney.

[brabus]

@Smokin I’ve had good experience with several bullets and manufacturers  (reloading and factory ammo), but I’m very interested in these all copper bullets now! When I get some time I’ll  start with .308 and 30-06 loads and see how those do…coyotes will be a good test asset.
 

Also, you can’t have too many hobbies.

[AirGuardianC141747]

ClearedHot mentioned/displayed pic earlier of the Beretta a300 ultima patrol. Definitely a fantastic piece of work manufactured here in TN and for the right price. Yesterday my dealer mentioned to me in passing would you like another Beretta 1301 we have a few left? Reason - ATF just banned the import of the 1301 for 922r compliance and production is on hold. If you had your eye on one it’s probably a good idea to snag any left on the shelf. I believe they are rehashing it to a 5 round system which is saddening. There probably will be a US mod to reincarnate the original capacity if they go thru with it. I absolutely dig the 1301 although a bit pricey to start with to include some other mods I have done. The a300 is more than adequate and even has a couple other features my 1301 didn’t have initially; therefore, no true reason to add another to the inventory especially after nabbing the younger brother a300 for under $800.
No worries if you own a 1301 - just lucky I guess.

 

 

Edited November 26 by AirGuardianC141747

[sputnik]

I’ve been impressed with PSA prices and services.  Any thoughts on quality of their own branded stuff?  Prices are kinda amazing.

 

On the subject of quality, keltec?

 

Thanks

[brabus]

Never had an issue with PSA stuff - not sure I’d totally rely on them for defense, but they’ve not done me wrong for light range time. 

[M2]

3 hours ago, sputnik said:

I’ve been impressed with PSA prices and services.  Any thoughts on quality of their own branded stuff?  Prices are kinda amazing.

On the subject of quality, keltec

Thanks

Great entry-to-mid level stuff, more than capable for 90% of people who aren't trying to be SEAL Team Six!

The also have a reputation for excellent customer service.

As for KelTec, I'd steer clear based on past experience.  

[sputnik]

5 minutes ago, M2 said:

Great entry-to-mid level stuff, more than capable for 90% of people who aren't trying to be SEAL Team Six!

The also have a reputation for excellent customer service.

As for KelTec, I'd steer clear based on past experience.  

Thanks guys.  It’s for plinking, and I’m more Meal Team Six these days.

Always been curious about keltec, they make weird looking shit and it’s always very cheap.

[viper154]

3 hours ago, sputnik said:

I’ve been impressed with PSA prices and services.  Any thoughts on quality of their own branded stuff?  Prices are kinda amazing.

 

On the subject of quality, keltec?

 

Thanks

PSA has great customer service. Great products for range toys, plinkers, etc. if you aren’t running it hard it’s a fine defense gun as well. I built several ARs for fun using a variety of their parts. Just picked up one of their 9mm AKs. Some videos out there showing after 6-7k rounds their lower end ARs start to fail, especially if you running them hard/suppressed. Their spec/materials just aren’t what you are going to get in a high end gun. 
 

Ketec-you get what you pay for. I bought a sub2000 8 ish years ago. Thing shoots any ammo I put in it. Never had a failure. Trigger is horrible though, and so are the ergonomics. Was it worth $300? Hell ya. It’s a fun range toy. I would never put my life in its hands though. 

[cragspider]

I’ve had their AK-V 9mm for 6 years, it’s set up for HD and it’s a solid and fun gun. Plus it’s a nail driver. It was after the initial batch had some issue and was corrected after Jmac did the review and found the problem. Their CS is great. For mid level stuff they make good stuff, all in house. Plus their stated goal is to help arm all of America.  
plus id use their parts kits and lowers no problem, just get a better barrel or if they still sell the FN barrels. 

Edited November 29 by cragspider
Added more about parts

[AirGuardianC141747]

When the PSA JAKL 308 version is released count me in. That will be quite solid based on the baby brother version. I just appreciate the all ambi controls and side charging handle hardware as it becomes very intuitive and you don’t lose your line of sight so abruptly on most other platforms. It should be fun being a Elephant Seal Team Sofa Warrior.

[uhhello]

Looking for first carry gun optic.  Sig p365 is what i currently carry.  Everything I see online references this

https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/eps/eps-carry-red-2.html

[Lord Ratner]

9 hours ago, uhhello said:

Looking for first carry gun optic.  Sig p365 is what i currently carry.  Everything I see online references this

https://holosun.com/products/reflex-sight/eps/eps-carry-red-2.html

https://a.co/d/3MOJmlj

 

I love mine. The ACSS reticle is absolutely brilliant for quick target acquisition. Much better than the standard reticle, especially on a sub compact. 

 

I prefer the smaller size of the open sight. The sealed units are supposed to be better for carrying because it won't get dirty, but I just blast it with a can of compressed air and it's all good. 

 

Mine is on a P365X. 

Edited December 6 by Lord Ratner

[Smokin]

Leupold's Deltapoint Micro looks awesome, but currently only available for Glock and SW M&P.  Only $250 with their military discount.  I really hope they expand the line to Springfields.  Most of the additional bulk for the sight is at the back of the slide rather than on top.

[disgruntledemployee]

I'm looking to add a compact/sub and was looking at the Hellcat, which has a nice deal with 5 mags and an optic for the standard price.  I have a pair of 1st gen M&P Shields.  I looked at the P365, but like the Hellcat capacity without too much added bulk.

Any experience info appreciated, to include carry holsters.