Gun Talk

[M2]

See, that's the problem, this is going to be his christmas gift. I honestly don't think he even knows what he wants. He told me to talk to our old roomie who is huge into guns, but that man is damn near impossible to get a hold of! Which is why I came on here! I think his reasoning for wanted the 92F is because it is what the AF does their hand gun tests with. Otherwise, I think he's open to any type of gun..

I will check out the two sites you listed, and go from there.. Thank you!

Edited to add:

Not gonna lie, the XD series is rather scary looking..! (I'm such a whimp!)

Kayla

Just a little advice, you can take it or leave it; but you gotta let your husband figure out which gun he wants. I know that is difficult, for some of us it is like being a kid in a candy store with only a dollar; but a gun is something that has to match his needs. He probably "prefers" the 92F because that is all he has any real experience with; and that may be fine but there are a lot of better guns out there that fit a variety of needs, wants and desires.

If you both have the opportunity, I would go to a gun show and check out what's available. He needs to see what catches his eye, feels right in his hand, and what justs tickles his fancy (sts). If he plans to conceal carry, some people think you need a compact or sub-compact sized weapon. My XD is full-sized (in the sense that it has a normal-length grip) and a Service-length barrel (4"), and I can conceal carry it without a problem. If he doesn't plan to carry it, a bigger gun might be a better idea. My Springfield-Armory 1911s are Government-sized barrels (5"). Longer barrels add accuracy and velocity when shooting.

Another consideration is caliber. As I said, I am a fan of .45s; but two of the other popular bullet sizes are 9mm and .40 caliber. .45s are the larger of the three rounds, but are slower in velocity. 9mm rounds are smaller but faster, and their advantage is that you can carry more of them in a magazine over the larger rounds. The .40 was a compromise that is very popular with US law enforcement agencies, bigger than a 9mm and higher velocity than the .45; but it isn't as popular as the other two.

Lastly, price comes into play. A decent semi-automatic starts at $500. Semi-automatics are the kind of guns where you load them with a magazine, not a revolver where you load bullets into a cylinder. Revolvers were considered to be more reliable because early semi-automatics didn't always feed or eject bullets dependably; but I don't think that is the case these days. My Springfields have been 100% reliable since day one. Anyhow, there are some semi-autos below $500 and some work well but I would stay in the $500 range as a good starter (note this is for new guns, used prices are a completely different ballgame). If that is more than you are looking to spend, then there are a few recommendations we can give you. Personally, my first 1911 was a Springfield GI. Looks similar to the one the US issued during WWII, reliable out of the box and available for ~$500.

I hope that helps, if you have any more questions then post away or feel free to PM me. One last reiteration, you may want to consider letting him choose the gun he wants as, like I said, it is a very personable decision. I let my wife pick out her jewelry, and I pick out my guns. It works best that way...

Cheers! M2

[old crow]

M2,

What prices are you seeing in TX for a used XD45 (with 3 hi-cap mags)? I think I might finally give in and get one.

[Guest wildblue]

Yeah, it was a dumb purchase at Gary's in CBM and I've regretted it. Great gun, but just way more than I need. BTW, If anyone is in CBM, ask Gary about his old T-6 Texan and you're sure to get a discount!

Good to know... thanks.

I'm semi-thinking about buying a M4-style carbine, depending which way the election goes. I found the DPMS Panther AP4 Carbine. Looks nice. Anyone have any experience with DPMS arms or other recommendations?

Also, the locals say that the only range in CBM is the police station. Not that I mind shooting with them, but are there any other ranges that y'all know of? Thanks!

P.S. Kayla, go for the XD, either in 9mm or .45... he'll love it. I wouldn't spend the extra money to go for the new M series if your husband isn't really a gun conessuir yet. Just my $0.02.

Edited October 13, 2008 by wildblue

[M2]

M2,

What prices are you seeing in TX for a used XD45 (with 3 hi-cap mags)? I think I might finally give in and get one.

Crow

How many rounds are through it? I ask because new ones are running $500-550 at the local gun shows...

Is it a Service (4") or Tactical (5") model? Regular or Compact (I suspect a Regular as you are talking hi-cap (13 round) magazines, unless they are the extended magazines for the Compact). If in good shape, I would say around $450-500. You might even go as low as $400.

Plus, with the rumor that the next XD(M) may be a .45, the price of the current XDs may drop. I've handled the new XD(M) in .40, and whereas it is nice; I wouldn't get rid of my XD to get one, even in .45...

Cheers! M2

[old crow]

How many rounds are through it? Said "low" rounds

Is it a Service (4") or Tactical (5") model? 4" Regular

If in good shape, I would say around $450-500. You might even go as low as $400. Man, you're good. Buying via internet, but $399 is what I paid.

Since I haven't been to a good gun show since Randolph, and there's none in Nebraska (not a gun friendly state), I was forced to shop via internet. Hopefully this works out, but I'm buying from a site that was mentioned in this thread. Hope the XD is as good as you say it is.

thanks

[M2]

Crow

If it's gunbroker.com or gunsamerica.com; you should be alright. I know a few folks who have had positive experiences with those. Of course, you'll have to factor in shipping (~$25) and the FFL xfer (~$25); but that's still a good deal.

And as for the quality of the XD, I have no doubt about how good it is. I would stake my life on it (and technically I do, since I carry mine). If you have any questions, go to the forum at XD Talk. I've learned a lot from there.

By the way, if you break it down for cleaning, be careful that the guide rod is properly in place when you reassemble it. If it is out of alignment, it will jam the slide and it is a mother to get loose. But if that happens, a rubber mallet or pounding it on the ground using a thick towel folded over a few times will jar it loose. It is something that will only happen once, and usually to people who just bought their guns. I had mine about three days when it happened to me, I was sick to my stomach but I finally got it loose.

And the next time you're in San Antonio, you can buy me a beer for steering you to such an outstanding firearm!

Cheers! M2

[JP84U2]

Since I haven't been to a good gun show since Randolph, and there's none in Nebraska (not a gun friendly state), I was forced to shop via internet. Hopefully this works out, but I'm buying from a site that was mentioned in this thread. Hope the XD is as good as you say it is.

thanks

Not sure which Nebraska you're talkin bout...."not a gun friendly state"...huh? The Nebraska I live in has a gun show somewhere every weekend in the fall and another round in the spring. They are usually advertised in the World Herald "sporting goods" classifieds. It took me 15 seconds on Google to come up with www.nebraskagunshows.com. You need to get off the base a little more my friend.

Humps

[old crow]

Not sure which Nebraska you're talkin bout...."not a gun friendly state"...huh? The Nebraska I live in has a gun show somewhere every weekend in the fall and another round in the spring. They are usually advertised in the World Herald "sporting goods" classifieds. It took me 15 seconds on Google to come up with www.nebraskagunshows.com. You need to get off the base a little more my friend.

Humps

I should have said "No good gun shows in NE"

Lets see, Omaha sucks; having no gun shows of their own. Been to the Fremont and Council-tucky gun shows and they both suck in comparison to ones in San Antonio.

I stand by "not a gun friendly state"....well let me revise that to "not a gun friendly county". Douglas County sucks. Have to register handguns (at least supposed to) with the local cops, have to have a firearms card just to handle a weapon, and military (w/o NE DL) cannot get a concealed carry permit. Been here over 8-years and live far from the base. What else you got to support this is a gun friendly area....especially compared to TX?

Edited October 13, 2008 by old crow

[Guest KM]

Kayla,

If your husband hasn't shot a lot, try and get him to a gun range that rents guns. I didn't have a clue what I wanted until we went to a range (Don's Weaponry in Little Rock...great place) and I was able to shoot 10-15 different pistols. This will help him narrow it down, at least. In my opinion, there is no way you can pick out a gun by looking at pictures on the internet. There's a range in Enid that rents guns, and I'm sure if you go to OKC or Tulsa or Wichita you'll have lots more choices.

I agree with everyone else that suggested that you let him pick out the gun himself. Wrap a plastic pistol from Wal-Mart for him to open at Christmas and include a note that says he can trade it in for a real one.

[M2]

Crow

I was going to suggest looking into a non-resident permit from another state, as many folks do this to carry in states where their home state permit isn't recognized; but it doesn't appear that Nebraska recognizes permits from any of the states that offer them. Also, they don't recognize Texas CHLs, ! As far as I can see, Nebraska isn't as gun-friendly as I thought...just another reason to avoid the place if you ask me!

Cheers! M2

[The Kayla]

Kayla

Just a little advice, you can take it or leave it; but you gotta let your husband figure out which gun he wants. I know that is difficult, for some of us it is like being a kid in a candy store with only a dollar; but a gun is something that has to match his needs. He probably "prefers" the 92F because that is all he has any real experience with; and that may be fine but there are a lot of better guns out there that fit a variety of needs, wants and desires.

If you both have the opportunity, I would go to a gun show and check out what's available. He needs to see what catches his eye, feels right in his hand, and what justs tickles his fancy (sts). If he plans to conceal carry, some people think you need a compact or sub-compact sized weapon. My XD is full-sized (in the sense that it has a normal-length grip) and a Service-length barrel (4"), and I can conceal carry it without a problem. If he doesn't plan to carry it, a bigger gun might be a better idea. My Springfield-Armory 1911s are Government-sized barrels (5"). Longer barrels add accuracy and velocity when shooting.

Another consideration is caliber. As I said, I am a fan of .45s; but two of the other popular bullet sizes are 9mm and .40 caliber. .45s are the larger of the three rounds, but are slower in velocity. 9mm rounds are smaller but faster, and their advantage is that you can carry more of them in a magazine over the larger rounds. The .40 was a compromise that is very popular with US law enforcement agencies, bigger than a 9mm and higher velocity than the .45; but it isn't as popular as the other two.

Lastly, price comes into play. A decent semi-automatic starts at $500. Semi-automatics are the kind of guns where you load them with a magazine, not a revolver where you load bullets into a cylinder. Revolvers were considered to be more reliable because early semi-automatics didn't always feed or eject bullets dependably; but I don't think that is the case these days. My Springfields have been 100% reliable since day one. Anyhow, there are some semi-autos below $500 and some work well but I would stay in the $500 range as a good starter (note this is for new guns, used prices are a completely different ballgame). If that is more than you are looking to spend, then there are a few recommendations we can give you. Personally, my first 1911 was a Springfield GI. Looks similar to the one the US issued during WWII, reliable out of the box and available for ~$500.

I hope that helps, if you have any more questions then post away or feel free to PM me. One last reiteration, you may want to consider letting him choose the gun he wants as, like I said, it is a very personable decision. I let my wife pick out her jewelry, and I pick out my guns. It works best that way...

Cheers! M2

That is awesome advice, and I think I will do just that... Last year there was a Gun Show on Oct 21 in Tulsa... Maybe there will be another one around the same time... Thanks again! :-)

[Guest Fogo]

Kayla,

If your husband hasn't shot a lot, try and get him to a gun range that rents guns. I didn't have a clue what I wanted until we went to a range (Don's Weaponry in Little Rock...great place) and I was able to shoot 10-15 different pistols. This will help him narrow it down, at least. In my opinion, there is no way you can pick out a gun by looking at pictures on the internet. There's a range in Enid that rents guns, and I'm sure if you go to OKC or Tulsa or Wichita you'll have lots more choices.

I agree with everyone else that suggested that you let him pick out the gun himself. Wrap a plastic pistol from Wal-Mart for him to open at Christmas and include a note that says he can trade it in for a real one.

Definately good advice. I was the same way with basing what I wanted soley on just what I knew... which wasn't much. If you find a good range that rents them for the day for a good price, and also buys and sells; your husband will really be able to see what he likes. While there are many agreed upon standards that a lot of people have, everyone is different when it comes to the specifics of why they choose a certain firearm.

The idea about the plastic pistol for Christmas and telling him you'll buy him the one he wants is awesome... If he is wanting to purcahse a handgun and he gets that gift from his wife, he'll love it.

[The Kayla]

I told him that I was taking him to a gun show, and I gave him all of M2's advice, and he agreed with me. I think we are going to go to the Gun show in OKC and go from there... He wanted the 92F because that's the gun he has shot, and has made "marksmen" and is the gun that he has to retest on and such.

Thanks again guys and Gal, for all your advice!

I'll let ya know what he decides on!

[Guest wildblue]

Outstanding info, thanks gearpig!

I remember seeing your reference to Mitch's somewhere else on here... I was going to PM you asking for the address.

How'd you get the mil discount? I'm guessing you asked your local store to order the gun for you instead of just using them for their FFL (or did they already have them in stock?).

[M2]

Be prepared for increases in ammo as well. That is why some of us went with a caliber of assault rifle that has a greater stockpile of ammo available (i.e. 7.62x39)...

Plus, there's nothing more sinister than a AK!

Cheers! M2

[old crow]

If it's gunbroker.com or gunsamerica.com; you should be alright. Went with Budsgunshop.com....fingers-crossed

go to the forum at XD Talk. I've learned a lot from there. Thanks, nice site

And the next time you're in San Antonio, you can buy me a beer for steering you to such an outstanding firearm! Done, next time I go to the JEWC or RAFB

As far as I can see, Nebraska isn't as gun-friendly as I thought...just another reason to avoid the place if you ask me! agree, but I'm stuck here

[Guest wildblue]

I'm not a big AR fan, but I simply don't like the idea that if I ever did decide to make a hobby of it, I wouldn't be able to.

Exactly. Lord knows that I could spend the money on better things, and I cannot justify buying an AR like I can my handguns (concealed carry and home defense... they serve a legitimate purpose). But the thought that it might be 8 years before I could buy one (or buy one at a reasonable price) might be enough to persuade me to buy one in a moment of weakness.

I asked the gun store owners if they had been seeing an increase in people buying black rifles lately, every single one said they were seeing a very sharp increase in sales. They also said if Obama wins along with a Dem majority, they will be jacking up the prices significantly.

Well hell, you aren't making it any easier for me to make the prudent decision.

[M2]

Crow

Bud's has a good reputation. I wouldn't worry.

And if you hit the JEWC, you are in my building. Let me know...

As for Nebraska, I can't help ya there. I've been able to avoid the place even though I've been working for STRATCOM for over three years now...

Let us know how much you like the XD once you get a chance to shoot it!

Cheers! M2

[dc58]

For those who are knowledgeable about ar-15's what are your recommendations for the 800-900 dollar range??? Are the Armalite or Bushmasters any good??

[Guest ski&fly fast]

another good place is: snipercountrypx.com

They give pretty good mil discounts and you just have them ship it to a store near you. I have had pretty good luck with them.

[M2]

For you commie gun owners out there, Academy Sports has Monarch (a.k.a. Barnaul) Russian-made 7.62x39 (123gr) for $2.99 for a box of 20. It is not advertised or even marked on the shelf; but if you scan it that is the price that will come up.

I picked up a thousand rounds after work today...can't wait to run some of it through this...

Cheers! M2

[Nineline]

Do the prices listed on Budsgunshop.com reflect the 3% cash discount? Also, any negative thoughts on the Taurus PT1911? On the surface, it seems to be a great value.

Lastly, I know a local dude who has his FFL, but he insists that he has to charge me local sales tax on it, even if I buy it out of state. Anyone else experience this?

-9-

Edited October 17, 2008 by Nineline

[M2]

Do the prices listed on Budsgunshop.com reflect the 3% cash discount? Also, any negative thoughts on the Taurus PT1911? On the surface, it seems to be a great value.

Lastly, I know a local dude who has his FFL, but he insists that he has to charge me local sales tax on it, even if I buy it out of state. Anyone else experience this?

-9-

I've not shot a PT1911, but I have heard a lot of great things about them. A good gun for the price. You can probably get better info at M1911.org

As for the FFL collecting state taxes, it is plausible. You may also have to pay a background check or other transfer-related fees. It all depends on the state. I would call another FFL to see if they can verify it. You can get a list of local FFLs here.

If you get the Taurus, let us know what you think!

Cheers! M2

[BigFreddie]

For those who are knowledgeable about ar-15's what are your recommendations for the 800-900 dollar range??? Are the Armalite or Bushmasters any good??

I would look into an LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool) lower with a BCM (Bravo Company) upper and bolt carrier group. It will run about $1000 but will last a lifetime of use because they will build it right. Of the two you mentioned I would buy the Bushmaster before the Armalite.

BF

[BigFreddie]

Guns – A Primer

Here’s my two cents worth on guns… I’ve been shooting and hunting the last 21 years of my life. I’ve shot competitively in the Air Force, participated in IPSC, IDPS, and AASA shoots in numerous states, taken several classes from nationally recognized firearms instructors, and generally have been a gun-nerd for years. My wife will tell you I spend all too much time thinking about guns, reading about guns, and shooting my guns…

Anyhow, I always see a lot of folks asking questions about which is the best gun for this or that. So I’m going to throw out some things I think are important.

Handguns:

The first questions to ask yourself or the person getting it is – what are you going to use it for? Target shooting? Self Defense or Home Defense? Collecting? Competitions? Each of these will generate a different answer – if you’re target shooting you might want to consider the gun with the cheapest ammo available like a .22 LR. For defensive purposes you want a gun that is reliable and effective. For competitions you might want to research the rules of the game before buying.

If you are a novice handgunner with little experience it is worth the time and effort to find a local range or gun shop that rents handguns. You will get hands on experience with a variety of guns that will be invaluable when you ultimately select what you want. In my experiences, nothing beats shooting a gun to find out if you actually like it – you will find that sometimes guns don’t fit your hand, the recoil is too “snappy”, that the guns doesn’t point correctly. It is much better to find out that you don’t like a pistol before you buy it than after you get it – this will cost extra in the long-run when you sell the old one and buy new.

Revolvers vs. Auto-Loaders/Semi-Autos. There are numerous pros and cons with this dilemma. Revolvers are inherently reliable and some people believe they are safer than semi-auto handguns. That being said, their ammunition capacity is much lower and reloading is also considerably slower. Semi-autos have been successfully used for years – the 1911 is not named that just because it is a cool number – it has been around for almost 100 years! Semi-autos are reliable and widely used by the police and military. Me, I’ll take a semi-auto any day.

Caliber. First, bullets are described primarily by size – either in fractions of an inch or millimeters. Since we are generally more in tune with inches, consider the 9mm as a .38 caliber bullet. The rest are usually designated in inches.

This is likely a heated debate whenever it is brought up. For semi-auto handguns the main calibers are 9mm (also called 9mm Parabellum, 9x19, 9mm NATO), .40 SW (Smith and Wesson), and .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). These are all widely accepted for police and military use. With today’s modern bullets each is a viable self defense round that should allow everyone to sleep soundly at night. Other factors here to consider are recoil (9mm lightest, .40 SW mid-range, and .45 ACP is the worst) and cost (same scale as recoil!). This again is a good reason to test-fire different pistols before buying.

Revolvers can come in many other calibers – some of the most popular being .38 Special, .357 Magnum, all the way up to .500 Smith and Wesson. I would suggest a minimum of a .38 Special for self defense. One of the unique aspects of revolvers is that they sometimes can fire two different calibers. In the case of the .357 Magnum, you can also fire .38 Specials – which are essentially a shorter, less powerful version of the .357.

Here are some suggestions about handguns:

Glocks – these are great guns. There are reports of people shooting over 100,000 rounds of ammo through these guns with nary a malfunction or broken part – that is $20,000 in ammo through a $400 gun! They are relatively cheap ($400 to $600 depending on caliber and options), widely available, and use cheap magazines ($20 each or so). These make excellent plinkers, home defense guns, and competition guns. Glock also has a very impressive military and law enforcement discount – nominally around $100 off.

Smith and Wesson M&P – these are some up and coming pistols made in the US of A. Similar in design to the Glock, they differ in the fact that you can swap the grip panels to better fit your hand. They have been increasingly purchased by police departments and have been gaining in popularity.

The venerable 1911 – this is one of the greatest pistols ever designed. This is typically the standard against all others are judged. It is perhaps the perfect combination or ergonomics, caliber, and overall design. That being said, it can be a finicky pistol and with the multitude of companies building them now some lack in quality. As a general rule of thumb if you stick with Springfield Armory or Kimber you will do fairly well. On the high-end of the 1911 game you can expect to pay well over $2500 for the top of the line gun from a custom gun maker.

Others:

Sig-Sauer: great company with a wide variety of handguns. Very high quality with an associated higher price. Used by the military as the M11 to include USAF OSI and USN Navy SEALs.

Heckler and Koch: Considered one of the top manufacturers in the world. Prices are high on guns and magazines. Exceedingly tough pistols.

Springfield XD series: I won’t comment on these since I have no experience with them. Most people really like theirs and swear by them.

Beretta: US military standard issue. Considered a great gun that beat out others when the military was looking for a new handgun in the 1980s.

Rifles:

There are a lot of good rifles out there. Two of the most popular are the AR-15 series and the AK family. These two rifles have become very popular in the last few years with a huge number of companies building and importing them.

AR-15 Series:

The AR-15 has been in military service for over 40 years. It can be had in many, many different versions from full out tactical military variety to a highly accurate varmint rig. Some companies are better than others with Colt being the most highly-regarded company but also has the highest cost for a basic rifle. You can buy from other companies for less money but it will cost in the form of long term reliability and overall quality. If you want to really get into the weeds of the AR-15 log into www.ar-15.com or www.M4Carbine.com and be ready to be overwhelmed. That being said, here is the order of priority I would buy an AR-15 in today:

1) Colt

2) BCM (Bravo Company Manufacturing)

3) LMT (Lewis Machine and Tool)

4) Knight’s Armament Company

5) Charles Daly

6) Bushmaster

7) Rock River Armament

8) Remington

9) Armalite

10) DPMS

11) Other

ARs are highly customizable – from caliber to barrel to optics there is no peer to the versatility of the AR. You can buy upper receivers chambered in .22LR, .204 Ruger, .223 Remington, 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCOM, .50 Beowolf, .450 Bushmaster, 9mm, .40 SW, .45 ACP – and many others I’m sure I missed. You can also get ARs chambered in 7.62x51mm – aka .308 Winchester which opens up a whole new world of options.

AK Family:

Designed by a former tank farmer the ak series is the most prolific firearm in history with a likely number produced exceeeding 50 million copies! The AK has a reputation of being utterly reliable but less than stellar accuracy and ergonomics. AKs can now be had in 3 different calibers: 7.62x39mm (the original AK caliber), the 5.45x39mm (the answer to the American 5.56x45mm), and finally the 5.56x45mm (for American consumption and NATO compliance). Some benefits of the AK over the AR is that ammo is generally cheaper and so are the guns themselves. There are three common versions available: AK-47 style which has a milled receiver, the AKM which has a stamped receiver, and the AK-74 that is chambered in 5.45x39mm with a stamped receiver. Today there are many versions available in the US from companies importing them from Europe to other companies importing parts kit from Europe and building them with American parts. Rules of thumb with the AK are:

1) Don’t buy American made ammunition – it is more expensive than European and Chinese ammo but is not any better

2) Buy only non-American built magazines – for some reason the former-commies figured out how to make utterly reliable magazines but Americans haven’t been able to improve on them or bring the cost down at all.

3) If you are buying an AK make sure your front sights are correctly aligned – some are canted and make it impossible to shoot to the desired point of aim.

If you are looking for a good AK and are willing to pay a little bit more, buy an Arsenal, Inc. rifle. Their current selections are available in 7.62 and 5.56. If you want the bargain basement model look at the WASR – built in Romania and imported to the US, they run about $400 +/- $50. They are what an AK should be – reliable and straight ugly! They’ll get the job done all day long for a few bucks.