Gun Talk

[HeloDude]

So, I did a search, and maybe I just don't know how to search inside a specific thread, if that's even possible, but anyone have any experience with the Kel-Tech KSG? It looks like a pretty mean and capable HD shotgun, but for the price you could really set up a nice Mossy. Anyone have one, or shot one? Thanks.

My brother has one and I have shot it several times--what do you want to know?

[M2]

OK, anyone picked up one of these yet?

It's a Zastava PAP M92PV pistol, similar to the Romanian Draco but has a hinged top cover and flip up sights.

I saw a few at the gun show this morning but the lowest price I found was $589 and J&G and CTD both have 'em for $549. Since I have a bud who is a FFL I can do the transfer at no cost.

Since they are categorized as a pistol, 922r does not apply so no modifications have to be made when they are brought in country; and technically under Texas law you can conceal carry one!

Very tempting, but I'm also itching to find a XDm .45 Comp Series in 5.25" so I don't know which I'll pick up first.

Cheers! M2

[HeloDude]

The AK/AR 'pistols' are neat for sure...and what is even more neat is how they qualify as a 'pistol' thus not requiring a SBR Class 3, etc.

However, from a practical stance, I don't really see the point. If I was really wanting an AK type rifle with a shorter barrel, then I would just jump through the hoops and get a SBR.

So just like the bump fire stocks, I really don't see the reason to get one...other than the fun factor, which believe me, I'm also a fan of satisfying! Let us know if you get one and how it shoots!

[M2]

I have a Draco and actually just had it out to the range last weekend. While obviously it is not as accurate as a rifle, for pistol ranges (5-15m) it is about on par in terms of accuracy; and considering we're talking a .30 caliber round (and 30 of them to boot!), there's sure a heckuva lot more firepower on target!

What they are really useful for are how concealable the are. I can fit my Draco into most of the tactical backpacks I have. Now, why I would need it for is a matter of debate; but I have always subscribed to the philosophy of 'better to have and not need, then need and not have!'

Now, one of these or a Draco converted into a SBR using an underfolder/sidefolding stock is really the best of all worlds. It can still be used as a pistol and a rifle, but at this point they lose their 'pistol' status in the eyes of the law and never can be returned as such.

Cheers! M2

[HeloDude]

Hmmm....good point. I didn't really think about the backpack/hiking part.

Have you (or anybody else) been buying a lot of ammo lately? I saw some great deals recently online and bought quite a bit of .223 and .40...surprised at how low it was actually.

Also, for M2, are any of your AK's in 5.45? And do you have any Krebs made AK's?

[theat6bisasham]

Now, one of these or a Draco converted into a SBR using an underfolder/sidefolding stock is really the best of all worlds. It can still be used as a pistol and a rifle, but at this point they lose their 'pistol' status in the eyes of the law and never can be returned as such.

Cheers! M2

This is way in the weeds, but I hold a Type II (i.e. class 3 stuff) FFL and let me warn you from a very 'technical' standpoint. You can't SBR these imports legally without changing out some of the parts to regain 922r compliance. I.e. as a pistol these are legal with import parts, but once you SBR it, you must be in compliance with 922R which says you have to have a certain amount of US manufactured parts. Anyway, don't trust the gun show gurus and the goobers - it applies, and every 922r violating SBR is a 10 year jail sentence if you were ever to be unlucky enough to get in trouble about it..small chance, but obviously guys in the know stay away. I consider this as stupid as cutting your own lighting links for your AR-15s and going full auto in your backyard with the redneck neighbors. Good luck! I do want one of these though!

[M2]

Hmmm....good point. I didn't really think about the backpack/hiking part.

Have you (or anybody else) been buying a lot of ammo lately? I saw some great deals recently online and bought quite a bit of .223 and .40...surprised at how low it was actually.

Also, for M2, are any of your AK's in 5.45? And do you have any Krebs made AK's?

Nope, I am a staunch member of the 7.62 church, gotta stick with the way Mikhail intended!

I do have a Krebs lever on my Khyber Pass replica (built off a Polish kit), but not complete products of Marc's. I wish I could afford to, I consider him to be one of the best AK builders around!

[HeloDude]

I'm looking for bulk .223 and .45. Where did you find a good deal?

The .223 was PMC Bronze (brass) from Cabella's...it was $5.99 for a box of 20 and free shipping--yeah, I bought quite a bit. I think their current deal is $6.50 a box and I don't think they have the free shipping anymore either.

As for .45, I'd check out Buds Police Supply...I think they have a decent deal on .45 brass. Also, sgammo.com is often pretty good, and that's where I bought the .40 this time.

I go to slickguns.net a couple times a day (click on ammo) and that's where I find a lot of the good sales.

Good luck!

[M2]

https://www.ammoengine.com/

[HU&W]

https://www.ammoengine.com/

Great site. Thanks. Also for anyone looking for a zombie apocalypse here's a possible consideration. https://www.academy.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_10051_616355_-1?ICID=CRT:0324-00971-9997

[old crow]

https://www.ammoengine.com/

Another one I like:

https://gun-deals.com/ammo

[Kilgore Trout]

Does anyone here have experience with the Sig P238? They've got a pretty good deal on them at my local gun shop and I've been looking for something small for the wife to feel more comfortable with and to carry after we get our CCWs in a few months. We've also considered a J-frame Smith or a Ruger LCR.

[Beaver]

Does anyone here have experience with the Sig P238? They've got a pretty good deal on them at my local gun shop and I've been looking for something small for the wife to feel more comfortable with and to carry after we get our CCWs in a few months. We've also considered a J-frame Smith or a Ruger LCR.

It's a small gun with small controls that can be difficult to operate with one finger. There is not a lot of grip real estate. How is she going to carry it? Does she like it because it's small and seems less intimidating to her?

I've got a J-frame with laser grips and being able to see how much the dot moves when you pull the trigger really highlights how important trigger control is in small guns. Whatever gun set gets I'd recommend some professional instruction (I.e. not you) and practice practice practice.

[M2]

Does anyone here have experience with the Sig P238? They've got a pretty good deal on them at my local gun shop and I've been looking for something small for the wife to feel more comfortable with and to carry after we get our CCWs in a few months. We've also considered a J-frame Smith or a Ruger LCR.

Honestly, while I like the size of pocket pistols such as the P238 or even the Taurus TCP I own; I don't know if I could trust my life to the .380 round.

Sure, any caliber can be lethal, even the FBI speculated that more people have been killed by .22 firearms than all other sized weapons combined (pg 14, FBI Study - Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness); but that same report concluded that "Given desirable and reliable penetration, the only way to increase bullet effectiveness is to increase the severity of the wound by increasing the size of hole made by the bullet. Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet." (pg 16).

Therein lies my concern with the .380, tests show it lacks penetration and wounding effectiveness as compared to other rounds. Given the number of 9mm and even .45 ACP pistols as the Springfield XDs, I would recommend looking around before jumping on this "deal."

As for Sigs, they have great reputations but I had a FBI armorer tell me the reason that agency got rid of their P228s was they were too complex and expensive to maintain and repair. They have since gone to the Glock 22/23 .40, and a select few get to carry one of my favorite pistols, the Springfield Tactical Response Pistol (TRP) 1911 in .45 ACP!

Cheers! M2

[Kilgore Trout]

Good responses and talks to some of my major questions. She's fine shooting our 9 mm's, but she does prefer the smaller controls of guns like the P238. The Glocks seem to have a wider grip which is why I've always preferred the XD line. We have an Xdm 3.8 that I love, but working the slide and slide release is not as easy for her as it is for me. That's one of the reasons I've started to lean towards a small frame revolver for her. Less thought has to go in to its operation in the heat of the moment.

[slackline]

My brother has one and I have shot it several times--what do you want to know?

Does it seem like a quality gun to you or gimmicky? I've read some mixed reviews on it. Did it jam on you when shooting it? Operation straight forward? It's a lot more expensive than a Mossberg, so I don't want to be a beta tester. If it seemed like a finished as opposed to a rushed product would be good to know.

[HeloDude]

Does it seem like a quality gun to you or gimmicky? I've read some mixed reviews on it. Did it jam on you when shooting it? Operation straight forward? It's a lot more expensive than a Mossberg, so I don't want to be a beta tester. If it seemed like a finished as opposed to a rushed product would be good to know.

From what I can tell is seems quality. It never jammed and was very easy to operate...switching between magazines would take some practice to do it quickly. It's short (bull pup) and fairly light...which means it kicks quite a bit. But hey, it's a shotgun so it's supposed to kick.

I plan on buying one when the prices come down to MSRP...whenever that happens.

[M2]

Still loving mine, it's a great handgun!

MAC just released a review...

While I don't agree with everything he said (the grip safety doesn't bother me, but my primary carry weapon is a XD; and I think Springfield was smart to release the XDs in .45 before .40 or 9mm), I think he still pretty much nailed this review!

Cheers! M2

[HeloDude]

The M&P Shield is probably my first regrettable handgun purchase.

Why??

[M2]

Gearpig

Hope you enjoy your XDs as much I have mine!

Cheers! M2

[Beaver]

The slide hangs about 1/8" from the full battery position when chambering the first round by pulling and releasing it. Pulling the trigger only allows the slide to move forward into the position it should have already been in. It takes a second trigger pull to fire. You have to apply pressure to the rear of the slide every time you insert a new magazine to make sure it is in the full battery position. I sent it back to Smith and Wesson and it was returned to me saying it met factory specs. I called and spoke with a tech. According to them, the slide does not have to smoothly chamber a round when operating the slide manually. It is only required to fully chamber a round during the semi-automatic operation. They suggested I put another 300-500 rounds through it to see if it makes a difference. I've cycled the action cleaned and dry several hundred times without firing. I'm not spending a shitload of money on ammo in hopes it one day operates like it should have out of the box.

How much do you want for it?

[mp5g]

Now, the hunt is one for a good CCW holster. There's numerous discussions on that subject over on XDTalk, but I haven't decided which would work best for me yet.

Have you looked at crossbreedholsters.com?

They have some very nice XD IWB holsters. I've got two of them for my pistols.

[tac airlifter]

Considering a new pistol. I'm looking at three: the FN FNP, FNX, & HK P30 (maybe even the P30L). Any experiences with these would be appreciated.

[slackline]

From what I can tell is seems quality. It never jammed and was very easy to operate...switching between magazines would take some practice to do it quickly. It's short (bull pup) and fairly light...which means it kicks quite a bit. But hey, it's a shotgun so it's supposed to kick.

I plan on buying one when the prices come down to MSRP...whenever that happens.

Thanks!

[BigFreddie]

How much do you want for it?

If anyone is looking for low cost Shields, look at Quantico Tactical. Sign up for the .mil discound and they are $330 +$25 shipping. None in stock currently though...