Gun Talk

[Kilgore Trout]

Revolvers can come in many other calibers – some of the most popular being .38 Special, .357 Magnum, all the way up to .500 Smith and Wesson. I would suggest a minimum of a .38 Special for self defense. One of the unique aspects of revolvers is that they sometimes can fire two different calibers. In the case of the .357 Magnum, you can also fire .38 Specials – which are essentially a shorter, less powerful version of the .357.

I'm mainly a target shooter and love putting holes through paper, plinking, shooting clays, and anything else I can try to improve my skill on. I prefer revolvers because of their pointability, reliability, accuracy, and toughness. I was wishy washy until I got my first Colt Python. This being said, I love my 1911 and have never shot a Sig I didn't like. I don't worry about home defense because in the very slim chance I would need home defense I would just grab one of my old shotguns. However, if it comes to personal defense or concealed carry you can finally slim down below the .38 reliably with the new .327 Federal round. This is a very nice little package that Ruger offers in its revolvers now.

Great post BigFreddie I just thought I'd throw that nugget in there, the .327 is a big upgrade over the old .32's.

[BigFreddie]

I'm mainly a target shooter and love putting holes through paper, plinking, shooting clays, and anything else I can try to improve my skill on. I prefer revolvers because of their pointability, reliability, accuracy, and toughness. I was wishy washy until I got my first Colt Python. This being said, I love my 1911 and have never shot a Sig I didn't like. I don't worry about home defense because in the very slim chance I would need home defense I would just grab one of my old shotguns. However, if it comes to personal defense or concealed carry you can finally slim down below the .38 reliably with the new .327 Federal round. This is a very nice little package that Ruger offers in its revolvers now.

Great post BigFreddie I just thought I'd throw that nugget in there, the .327 is a big upgrade over the old .32's.

Thanks for the help... I guess I should admit I've never owned a revolver. I've shot a good number of them. I really grew up shooting auto-loaders. And I'm really biased right now towards the M&P series from Smith and Wesson. I've got a 9mm that I have 2000 rounds through without cleaning and no malfunctions...

BF

[USMCAirWinger]

For a Milspec AR with a 14.5 barrel you can't beat a Noveske.

[M2]

Nineline

Academy has the PT1911 for $579.99. I'm not sure if that is a great price, but it looks to be a good one.

They have stores in Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Carolina. Tennessee and of course, Texas:

And for you guys looking for ARs, they also have two on sale...

Cheers! M2

[Nineline]

Nineline

Academy has the PT1911 for $579.99. I'm not sure if that is a great price, but it looks to be a good one.

Cheers! M2

M2,

That price is not a bad price at all from a retail chain, but Bud's has it for $499.99 with free shipping (FFL transfer applies.) FYI, their online prices do reflect a 3% cash discount.

I've always wanted a good 1911, but to be honest, the only reason I'm considering it right now is because of the upcoming election. I'd hate to lose this opportunity to purchase one before the price skyrockets.

-9-

EDIT: Do any of you think that the price of 1911's will be significantly affected with Obama elected? I don't think these were affected much by Clinton's gun ban, but I'm not sure.

Edited October 18, 2008 by Nineline

[MilitaryToFinance]

Well I'm considering getting a new gun and just can't make up my mind what to get. My first and only gun was a Glock 21 as a birthday present from my dad. I was leaning towards getting an xD 45. It could share ammo with the Glock, gets great reviews on here and would make a good carry weapon. So it'd be functional but similar to what I already have. I also feel that handguns will be the last thing that Obama would be able to ban, the big scary AR's and AK's will come first. At the gun store yesterday I was looking around and I really think it would be fun to have one of the AK's. Seems like it would be a fun shooting gun but not particularly practical(until the zombies come). So any thoughts from the peanut gallery? I know its ultimately my choice but thought I would throw it out there. The AK's seemed to come in cheaper than the 1911's I was looking at, ~$850 vs ~$1100.

Also are the AK's customizable or are they typically just left as it? One thing I like about the AR's is that you have the option as you have more free cash to customize, upgrade sights and things of that nature. I haven't really seen any modified AK's but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

[busdriver]

If I were you, I'd buy one of the scary black guns. If Obama gets into office, I wouldn't be surprised at all about a renewed assault weapons ban. That's what I did.

[Guest AceTomatoCompany]

Also are the AK's customizable or are they typically just left as it? One thing I like about the AR's is that you have the option as you have more free cash to customize, upgrade sights and things of that nature. I haven't really seen any modified AK's but that doesn't mean they aren't out there.

In my experience AK's are just like 1911's once you have the basic gun you can do just about anything to it you have the desire/money/idea for.

[Clayton Bigsby]

In my experience AK's are just like 1911's once you have the basic gun you can do just about anything to it you have the desire/money/idea for.

My understanding is that AKs are beginning to show up every bit as customized as an AR. There are lots of rail options, replacing either the upper receiver top cover, or some of the foregrip/gas tube pieces. M2, what's your take on top cover rails for sights, versus side-mounted ones? As far as I see it, a side-mount would be more desirable since my top cover slides around here and there - not something I'd want to mount a sight/scope to.

[Guest AceTomatoCompany]

My understanding is that AKs are beginning to show up every bit as customized as an AR. There are lots of rail options, replacing either the upper receiver top cover, or some of the foregrip/gas tube pieces. M2, what's your take on top cover rails for sights, versus side-mounted ones? As far as I see it, a side-mount would be more desirable since my top cover slides around here and there - not something I'd want to mount a sight/scope to.

Side mount is better IMHO as it actually mounts to the side of the weapon itself rather than mounting to a removable cover, I have seen zero's consistently knocked off simply by the vibration of the recoil through the top covers of the gun. Side mounts are better but seriously if you are looking for accuracy out of a weapon that can consistently make good marks 200-300 yards out an AK is not the choice. If you want a gun that you can submerge in the ocean then leave in the sand for days and then take on the rest of the world and have parts and ammo always available the AK is it.

[M2]

I don't have any rails on my AKs, that's just my preference but if I were to put any on, siderails would be the way I'd go. I am not big into hanging a lot of stuff off of my rifles (shotguns are a different story), so my AKs are near stock. About all I've done was swap some sights out on my Yugo, and outside of that besides cycling ammo through them, the only thing I've really done was bought accessories (slings, bayonets, grenade launchers, etc).

I agree with busdriver, if the Demos win next month expect the Clinton AWB to return. Mr Change has already expressed his intent to invoke it, and the Democratic majority will gladly support it. Get your grandfathered weapons today, as well as ammo; as after next month I expect the prices to rocket! And I don't expect that to be limited to assault rifles; so mappleby, go get that XD ASAP!

Cheers! M2

[dc58]

Need some advice on legality of purchasing/selling guns to another person. I just bought a AR and was commenting to a buddy that maybe I should of custome built my own because of all the options if I would of known better. He said he can't get one (from CA) and is just TDY (no state residence) so he wants to pay me what I paid for mine and then I could build my own. Since he is from CA where guns are "evil" could there be anything that comes back on me for selling this to him???? If I sell it to him are the papers still in my name unless we go to a FFL and transfer them or anything?? Thanks for any advice.

[Clayton Bigsby]

it's probably not 'evil' unless he takes the guns back to Cali. AFAIK, residents aren't banned from having them in other places, they're just banned in CA.

Private transfer = no FFL req'd, the way to go man. No way for The Man to follow your sale!!!

[dc58]

it's probably not 'evil' unless he takes the guns back to Cali. AFAIK, residents aren't banned from having them in other places, they're just banned in CA.

Private transfer = no FFL req'd, the way to go man. No way for The Man to follow your sale!!!

But if he would take it back to Cali at some point then it would be on him for doing so???

[busdriver]

Be very careful dc58, what you're describing sounds suspiciously like a straw man purchase. If he lives in Cali, he can get an AR they just look ridiculous.

[M2]

Be very careful dc58, what you're describing sounds suspiciously like a straw man purchase. If he lives in Cali, he can get an AR they just look ridiculous.

I thought the same thing at first, but a strawman purchase is one where this arrangement is made at the time of the sale of the weapon. In other words, dc58 bought the gun knowingly to sell it to his bud in Kommifornia. However, as that was not the case, technically it isn't a strawman purchase.

However, depending on the time he has had the AR, it could still give the impression that this was his intent; and that is one perception I would steer far away from, as both would be charged with it:

In the United States, straw purchases are a felony violation of the Gun Control Act of 1968 for both the straw purchaser (who can also be charged with lying on Federal Form 4473) and the ultimate possessor. The first question on the form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no in ink, in his or her own handwriting.

According to Federal law:

An individual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell a modern firearm to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchaser's state. Firearms received by bequest or intestate succession are exempt from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, delivery or transportation of firearms into a state other than the transferor's state of residence.

Now I believe that addresses a business sale where the two individuals do not know each other previously (thus requiring an FFL); but for a private sale is a different animal. However, there are state requirements and you may want to read this over before even considering it (warning: that document is from an anti-gun organization; but the information appears to be legitimately researched and the anti-gun bias doesn't start until the end of it). I would also strongly recommend contacting a lawyer who specializes in gun laws in your state, and your bud does in the same in Kommifornia.

But, the bottom line is there is a potential for much trouble in doing this. You may be able to legally make the transfer, but he could get in trouble bringing the weapon into the gun-unfriendly state of Kommifornia and that someone could be linked back to you as it was an interstate arms transfer and your name is tied to the weapon. Personally, I would steer clear of it; but if you want to risk getting sent to Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass prison , then go for it! And remember that any felony conviction means you most likely will never be able to legally possess a weapon again!

Cheers! M2

[BigFreddie]

I don't have any rails on my AKs, that's just my preference but if I were to put any on, siderails would be the way I'd go. I am not big into hanging a lot of stuff off of my rifles (shotguns are a different story), so my AKs are near stock. About all I've done was swap some sights out on my Yugo, and outside of that besides cycling ammo through them, the only thing I've really done was bought accessories (slings, bayonets, grenade launchers, etc).

Cheers! M2

AKs are easy to customize. In my opinion if you are shooting something that is considered a self defense gun you should probably have something other than the freebie sling that is typically included, some form of light, and if money allows a red dot sight (EoTech, Aimpoint). I have an AK that has a Vltor stock extension with a MagPul MOE stock. I added an Ultimak rail where the upper handguard/gas tube was and then set a Surefire G2L in Vltor offset mount. When I have enough money I plan on getting an Aimpoint Micro as well. I am using a Viking Tactical sling to carry it all. Unfortunately when you start to customize an AK the cost of the add-ons can quickly exceed the money you spent on the gun.

As for mounting sights on the AK - the side rail method is the preferred Ruskie way. The only problem comes when you try to use the optics - they are typically very high and don't afford a good cheek weld. Also, Ruskie optics are pretty big and bulky for what you get. If you want a decent optic their Kobra series is pretty nice. I would suggest not mounting any optics you are serious about using to the top cover - it is just too loose to expect decent accuracy from it. I am using the gas tube replacement rail - I think it is pretty good but it makes cleaning the gas tube difficult. This isn't too big of a factor if you aren't shooting corrosive ammo.

Things that the AK really benefits from changing are the sights and safety. The stock sights are not great - mostly to do with the short sight radius and relatively small size. You can simply take a file and open up the rear notch - that is the cheapest way to go. The safety is hard to manipulate and still have your hand on the grip. If you get a Blackjack SWIFT lever or one from Krebs it makes safety manipulation a lot easier.

And if I was going to buy one AK and that is the only one I would ever have I would buy an Arsenal SLR107FR right now. Built in a former commie factory in Bulgaria as a neutered gun and then shipped to the US where Bulgarian technicians (or so they say) de-ban the rifle. It has a side rail plus a side folding stock that feels like a fixed stock when opened. They had a small run where the front sight base was canted but seemed to have fixed that issue - and if it has that issue they will repair it under warranty. Plus it seems all Arsenal guns appreciate in value so if you wanted to sell it off you could more than likely recoup the full cost and possibly make a couple bucks.

----

Obama/Pelosi/Reid will target guns eventually - I just don't think it will be on their calendar of to do items in CY 09 - they have bigger fish to fry and have made those their top priority. But make no doubt about it - Democrats don't like people having guns - especially the evil black ones.

----

In regards to the TDY guy who lives in CA... CA has the most restrictive gun laws out their and some of the biggest gun lovers as well so you get weird things like monster man grips and magazine locks. They also introduced a weird law if you want to ship a rifle from another state you must have your business/FFL registered with the state of CA before you ship them to the state. But, take me for instance - I maintain residency in Alaska - I was born and raised there and want to return when I'm done in the AF. If I was not in the military I couldn't buy guns in another state other than where I'm a resident unless I was a licensed dealer. Since we're all in the AF we get to be residents of the state were are STATIONED in. Since I'm in Texas now I'm considered a Texas resident when filling out my ATF 4473. And one of the questions on that, actually the first question, is "are you buying this gun for yourself" and you must answer YES and not just Y. In the case we have here, the original owner bought the rifle for himself and was intending to keep it until his buddy offered to buy it. If he is stationed in CA and tries to take it back there he could get into some real big time trouble. Since you are selling it to him direct, there is no FFL to give you a sanity check and I would bet that CA would ask questions why you sold the thing to him in the first place. It would really depend on where he was stationed currently, not where he is TDY or where he is from.

And for those who are PCS'd to CA here is some info. The Soldier's and Sailor's Civil Relief Act challenged the gun laws in CA. Since military members can't tell the service to shove it when it comes to getting reassigned to gun unfriendly places, there are certain ways to legally circumvent some state laws. If you are going to CA you can get what amounts to a license from here:

Department of Justice

Firearms Licensing & Permits Unit - MAWP

PO Box 820200

Sacramento, CA 94203-0200

(916) 227-3273

What I heard is that if you are stationed in CA you can get a license to bring your evil black rifles into the state. You pay something like $100 or $200 a year for the license and when you arrive you have a list of your firearms. Those are the only banned rifles you can have - you can't expand your collection while you're there or change it if you PCS back a couple assignments later. This info is all a couple years old so if you want to work with it I would call and get all the details before unknowingly breaking any CA state laws.

And I'm spent....

BF

Edited October 19, 2008 by BigFreddie

[M2]

BigFreddie

Good info, and I agree with you; but my AKs are not my firstline self-defense weapons. My Mossberg Persuader has a 120-lumen SureFire 6P and laser sight on it, and is loaded with 3" magnum 00-buckshot. It is what I would grab first if I heard someone breaking into the house, messing with the car, campaigning for Obama, etc...

And again you are correct on the state residency thing. Heck, our Canadian liaison officer here in San Antonio was recently able to purchase a Para PDA despite it not being legal to own in his home country. He had to go through a little paperwork, but he got it done relatively easily. But Texas is a far cry from Kommifornia. Honestly, I don't think Kommifornia has the ability to reach out and touch dc58, and I don't think there is any interstate issue; but his buddy is taking a big risk and if the state wanted to press the issue through the Fed, he may get some unwanted heat as well. Like I said, I would avoid it myself. Honestly, why risk it?

Cheers! M2

[dc58]

Sounds like a situation that I will just steer clear of.....Thanks for everyone's input. I guess he needs to move out of Cali

[Guest Fogo]

Good info, and I agree with you; but my AKs are not my firstline self-defense weapons. My Mossberg Persuader has a 120-lumen SureFire 6P and laser sight on it, and is loaded with 3" magnum 00-buckshot. It is what I would grab first if I heard someone breaking into the house, messing with the car, campaigning for Obama, etc...

[sputnik]

For those who are knowledgeable about ar-15's what are your recommendations for the 800-900 dollar range??? Are the Armalite or Bushmasters any good??

There are people here who know way more than me so I'm not going to rank manufacturers. I have two Bushmasters though, both have been excellent. A Varminter that is a blast and an M4 for when the Russians come (as our governer pointed out, we can see Russia from here). Have a number of friends that have them, uniformly good reviews. I'd recommend Bushmaster to anyone.

I have a bud with a couple Amalites, an AR10 and AR15. He had some problems with the 10 (extraction, incredibly bad groups). But he sent it back and they essentially replaced the entire thing with no harassment. I guess they had some manufacturing defect for a while there that is supposed to be fixed. At least they had good customer service. Damned expensive though.

[USMCAirWinger]

M2

What brand and where did you get that AK?

[M2]

M2

What brand and where did you get that AK?

That's a Century International Arms-imported Zastava M70AB2 (automatska puška model 70B) Yugo with the underfold stock and grenade launcher capability (sights, I also have the grenade launcher attachment as well). I got it at a local gun show and I still see 'em for ~$500.

I highly recommend a Yugo, they are built on the 1.6mm receiver over the standard 1.0mm of the standard Kalashnikov, which makes it a bit more accurate. It does not have a chrome lined bore, but that hasn't been a problem with any of the from what I've read and experienced. Another nice thing about the Yugos is that they hold the bolt open after the last shot has been fired (but you have to use Yugo mags for that to work). It also has an elongated upper handguard over the standard AK, which provides better protection for the gas tube.

If you go for a Century, make sure the front sight isn't canted. Many are (to include mine), and I had to send it back to them to correct. Otherwise, it is one helluva shooter!

And the bayonet is a modern AK-74 Bulgarian, it fits on AKMs as well. I have a traditional AK bayonet on my Norinco Type 56 AKM.

Cheers! M2

[bfargin]

And the bayonet is a modern AK-74 Bulgarian, it fits on AKMs as well. I have a traditional AK bayonet on my Norinco Type 56 AKM.

Cheers! M2

M2,

Those Norincos are a blast. I have a couple (cheap ones that I bought a few years ago) and they shoot pretty well for mid to short range and are a blast to shoot. I put about 600 rounds through one a few weeks ago and even though I hadn't shot any long guns in months I had no shoulder pain at all. With the dampner (damper??) those things have almost no kick. I've never had either of them miss fire either.

bfargin

[M2]

M2,

Those Norincos are a blast. I have a couple (cheap ones that I bought a few years ago) and they shoot pretty well for mid to short range and are a blast to shoot. I put about 600 rounds through one a few weeks ago and even though I hadn't shot any long guns in months I had no shoulder pain at all. With the dampner (damper??) those things have almost no kick. I've never had either of them miss fire either.

bfargin

Yeah, I got a helluva deal on mine. I had an Army bud heading to Iraq who asked me to "gun sit"his while he was gone. It was a pristine example with beautiful furniture on it, and very accurate (I had shot it before). Here are a couple of pics...

When he got back, he wanted to buy an old M1911 so once he found one, I gave him cash for it. That had been my plan from the onsete, figuring out a way to separate him from this beautiful AKM...

Cheers! M2