Gun Talk

[nsplayr]

Hey--what happened to the President not pushing any new gun legislation?? And don't say the school shooting, else I'll bring up the Aurora shootings, all the killings in Chicago, etc...and not like any new gun bans would have prevented the shooting.

Agree with your analysis though. From a political standpoint, I'm assuming Reid will allow Feinstein's Bill to at least come up for a vote? I hope it does.

It's explicitly because of the Sandy Hook shootings, you know that. He was for stricter gun control all along but I honestly didn't think it would ever come up due to the political capital necessary to even attempt it. I'm betting he thought the same. After Gabby Giffords, after VA Tech, after Aurora, after the Sikh Temple, a lot of grief, not a lot of legislative moving and shaking. You're "counter" explicitly proves the point I'm making that Sandy Hook is what changed things.

But when 26 people get massacred and most of them are first graders, come on, you know that's what changed the game politically for things to go from DOA to even up for debate. Will a new AWB or high-cap magazine ban change anything, I personally don't think so but it's pretty obvious when things changed politically and it was very recently.

[Buddy Spike]

I had the opposite experience with them. Bought an M&P Shield from them and they had great communication. Stated the pistol was not instock but had a delivery date available for their restock. Pistol arrived before the stated date.

I would likely cut them some slack due to the holiday. They were open a half day on Christmas Eve and even sent you an email on Christmas itself.

They weren't really open on Christmas eve. I started calling at 0800 and they never answered. Didn't get the reply until 10pm Christmas. But that's not really my issue. The problem I have is the price hike over the course of that time.

A $49 mark up isn't bad when people have marked up a single magazine more than that since the 14th. Personally, if you want the rifle I'd call them and get on the list. You're not going to beat their price during this panic - the worst I've seen BTW.

It's a bit more than $49 (although I don't remember what the original price was on Monday exactly). I already have a Bushmaster M4, so I'll pass. But to market directly to military and then hike up the price for no good reason is pretty weak.

S&W won't cut you the $100 off anyhow without the serial number which Quantico couldn't provide without the rifle in hand.

As long as the rifle gets in before January 15, and the receipt is dated sometime between now and 31 Dec, the rebate is valid.

The attitude of "well I've got 100s of orders and I'm doing you a favor" is what rubbed me the wrong way. It's one thing for Cabellas or a chain store to do it, but to hang your hat on the mil/leo hook up and then pull that BS is a foul.

[Spartacus]

I agree with what most of you are saying about the possibilities of an AWB, but the Dems do have a lot of power right now. I thought universal healthcare was a long shot too and look what happened.

[HeloDude]

It's explicitly because of the Sandy Hook shootings, you know that. He was for stricter gun control all along but I honestly didn't think it would ever come up due to the political capital necessary to even attempt it. I'm betting he thought the same. After Gabby Giffords, after VA Tech, after Aurora, after the Sikh Temple, a lot of grief, not a lot of legislative moving and shaking. You're "counter" explicitly proves the point I'm making that Sandy Hook is what changed things.

But when 26 people get massacred and most of them are first graders, come on, you know that's what changed the game politically for things to go from DOA to even up for debate. Will a new AWB or high-cap magazine ban change anything, I personally don't think so but it's pretty obvious when things changed politically and it was very recently.

So it's a political move...if I read you correctly. And if that's the case, he was always wanting to push for it, he was just waiting for the right time. Which goes along with what the gun folks have been saying for a while now--that he has always wanted to restrict/limit gun rights. Now to be fair, the President did say this in one of the debates, so it shouldn't come to a surprise to anybody with half a brain.

[HeloDude]

I agree with what most of you are saying about the possibilities of an AWB, but the Dems do have a lot of power right now. I thought universal healthcare was a long shot too and look what happened.

Dude, the GOP was severely outgunned (pardon the pun) in 2009-2010 as the Dems had super-majorities in both houses and hence were able to force through the healthcare legislation without a single Republican vote. Very different landscape then compared to right now, especially since the GOP has a comfortable majority in the House. This isn't the tax/cliff issue where things will happen if both parties don't do anything. If no legislation goes through, the gun laws stay the same.

The only thing in terms of banning that I could see even having a remote chance would be high capacity drums (50+ rounds)...and that would be just so the politicians can 'say' they did something, though we know it woud also not change anything in terms of cime.

[ChkHandleDn]

From Comrade Feinstein's Bill:

Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:

Background check of owner and any transferee;

Type and serial number of the firearm;

Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;

Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and

Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration

That makes the lil' hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Sounds like a small step towards total confiscation. I hope this bill gets rejected.

[Spartacus]

Here's a direct link to Feinstein's bill: https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons

I have been searching around and might order an AR online and I already have a lower so that makes things a little easier. There is no guarantee as to when my order will arrive though. Hypothetically speaking if this bill went through (unlikely I know but...) and I hadn't received my AR yet would it get grandfathered through or not?

Also, I wonder what the newspaper that published the personal information of gun owners thinks of this: https://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/27/blogger-publishes-names-address-newspaper-staff-after-gun-permit-database/?test=latestnews

[Buddy Spike]

When you argue for a living, you can tell how an argument is going for you. The evidence and my gut both tell me that the liberals have lost control of the gun control narrative.

Not for lack of trying – it was almost as if they were poised to leap into action across the political, media and cultural spectrum the second the next semi-human creep shot up another “gun free zone.” This was their big opening to shift the debate and now it’s closing. They’ve lost, and they are going nuts.

The evidence is all around that this is not going to be the moment where America begins a slide into disarmed submission through an endless series of ever-harsher “reasonable restrictions” on our fundamental rights. You just have to look past the shrieking media harpies to see what’s really happening.

Let’s start with the most obvious omen that this tsunami has peaked. President Obama thrilled his base by grandstanding at the memorial, and then promptly washed his hands of it by handing it over to a “blue ribbon commission.” Making Joe Biden its chairman was like staking a vampire through the heart, then hosing him down with holy water before burying his body beneath the Gilroy Garlic Festival.

Why does Obama want this gun thing buried? While intensely popular with metrosexual pundits, coastal liberals, and cultural bigots slobbering at the opportunity to stick it to those banjo –strummin’, God-believers out in the hinterlands, gun control remains poison to Red State Democrats.

Joe Manchin of West Virginia couldn’t resist some sanctimonious posturing, but clearly he heard enough from his constituents to sprint-back his heresy with a WaPo op-ed explaining how awesome the NRA is and how groovy gun owners are. He will never take sides against the family again.

We didn’t see the Red State Democrats up for re-election in two years out dumping on their constituents to please the media. Call it “the Fredo Effect,” and 2014 is the rowboat. We won’t hear from the likes of Senators Landrieu, Pryor and Begich until they vote “No.”

Sure, Senator Feinstein will submit her gun ban wish list to Harry Reid, who will look at it sagely, nod politely, and let it die. He’s more Tom Hagen than Fredo. He is going to retain the NRA “A” rating his website proudly showcases regardless of what Chuck Schumer thinks. What gets you hosannas in Manhattan gets you unemployed in Searchlight.

So, the politicians’ actions have spoken louder than their words, but what of the media? We lawyers always say that when your case is strong, pound on the law and the evidence, and when your case is weak, pound on the table. The furniture is splintering in Liberalland.

Their post-Newtown strategy was always to prevent an effective response from the pro-gun freedom side by both rapid action and by demonization. But the holidays and the kabuki theater that is the fiscal cliff drama meant that legislative action, their Holy Grail, would have to wait. That gave people time to think and the gun freedom side the time to react.

Demonizing those who support gun freedom was always intended as a weapon to silence them. It was also critical that we, law-abiding gun owners, become the Other. By dehumanizing us and painting us as evil, it is that much easier to strip us of our rights.

But gun freedom advocates fought back. Using the mainstream media, conservative media and especially social media – we need to understand its huge significance here – gun freedom advocates countered liberals’ bogus “facts.” Media reports about “automatic” weapons were corrected, clownish statements about “high caliber magazines” and “large capacity round” were mocked. The struggle raged over millions of Facebook posts. The average citizen saw gun banners ask “When will America control access to weapons?” and then saw several experts among his or her friends post about the significant hurdles one needs to get over to get a gun. Truth bypassed the mainstream media and became a weapon for the side of fundamental rights.

The banners overplayed their hand, losing credibility with every distortion, evasion and smear. The cries of “Blood is on your hands!” failed to resonate – reasonable Americans just did not blame the actions of a single sociopath on millions of their fellow neighbors. And it did not help when third-string celebrities and wizened literary has-beens took to hoping gun rights advocates would be shot for daring to oppose disarmament.

The gun banners also counted on a narrative that portrayed a respect for the Second Amendment. They sought only “reasonable restrictions” – why, no one wants to ban or confiscate your guns! The problem was one of memo distribution – not everybody got that memo. Mayor Bloomberg was putting out that what few guns he might graciously deign to leave in the hands of the unworthy would be starved of bullets, while Governor Cuomo acknowledged that confiscation was one of the options.

Oops. “Gun control” is a process that is designed and intended to lead to a total gun ban, and the banners are counting on people not realizing it.

Their credibility and motives already in question, the gun banners became vulnerable to a shift in the paradigm from depriving law-abiding citizens of effective defensive weapons to the idea of protecting kids with armed personnel in schools.

Suddenly, the gun banners had to argue two ridiculous positions. The first was that allowing trained educators or police having weapons in schools is a danger. The problem is that people generally like and trust teachers and cops. The second position was even worse, that armed personnel or police are somehow utterly useless against untrained, amateur creeps who seek to confront six-year olds. All over America, millions of parents noted how none of the wealthy gun banners were disbanding their personal security teams and thought, “You know, I think I’d like having a cop around my kid too.”

Frustration at the fact that their argument had not been unquestioningly accepted morphed into faux moral outrage that their opponents had dared offer any alternative proposal at all. E.J. Dionne of the WaPo was a prime example. He had to “grope for words to describe the National Rifle Association’s proposal,” yet he managed to find some: “Absurd, unbelievable, tragic, obscene,” as well as “insane.”

Note that Dionne’s righteous fury does not apply to the armed guards at the Post’s front door, surrounding President Obama, or to anywhere else other than in the vicinity of regular people’s children.

Particularly amusing are the liberals who transform into green eyeshades misers with the public purse when it comes to cops in schools. The folks who can’t spend enough dough on fudge-smeared, patriarchy-challenging performance artists suddenly become thrifty Scotsmen when it comes to doling out a few shillings to put a cop on campus.

They have been unable to articulate any coherent argument opposing putting cops in schools because there is no coherent argument against putting cops in schools. But more than anything, the mommies at the affluent Los Angeles-area school my kids attend have convinced me that the narrative has escaped the gun grabbers.

Knowing our reputations as proud conservatives – we represent diversity for our liberal friends – a pal of my wife remarked, out of the blue, that “I think my husband and I need to buy guns.” Whoa.

And as third graders sang holiday songs at their pageant while I surveyed the packed, vulnerable room, I blurted out to another mommy that I wished I could legally carry a weapon to protect those kids. And she told me that she wished that I could too. Whoa.

Gun banners, you lost the President, the senators, the social media, and now you’ve lost liberal LA mommies. You’ve lost everything. Again.

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2012/12/26/liberals-panic-as-they-lose-the-gun-narrative-n1473885

[HeloDude]

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2012/12/26/liberals-panic-as-they-lose-the-gun-narrative-n1473885

The townhall is a pretty conservative news source, but overall I think he makes some solid points. I disagree with the notion that Reid won't let it come to a vote though...the liberal base in the Senate really wants a chance at getting this through, or at a minimum getting a vote on it and then using it to vilify the Senators who vote against it, especially when the next shooting occurs. The author of the article correctly points out that the Red State Dems will have a hard time voting for anything even remotely close to what Feinstein is proposing (if anything at all) and the only GOP Senators I could see supporting the measure would be Collins from Maine and Kirk from Illinois.

What it comes down to is that the majority of the country does not want any new gun bans. The latest Gallup poll even right after the recent shooting had a slim majority/plurality not favoring any new bans...and I'm sure that number will rise a little bit in the next several months.

This along with the tax/debt issue will definitely make for an interesting news cycle after the new year.

[Buddy Spike]

The townhall is a pretty conservative news source, but overall I think he makes some solid points. I disagree with the notion that Reid won't let it come to a vote though...the liberal base in the Senate really wants a chance at getting this through, or at a minimum getting a vote on it and then using it to vilify the Senators who vote against it, especially when the next shooting occurs. The author of the article correctly points out that the Red State Dems will have a hard time voting for anything even remotely close to what Feinstein is proposing (if anything at all) and the only GOP Senators I could see supporting the measure would be Collins from Maine and Kirk from Illinois.

What it comes down to is that the majority of the country does not want any new gun bans. The latest Gallup poll even right after the recent shooting had a slim majority/plurality not favoring any new bans...and I'm sure that number will rise a little bit in the next several months.

This along with the tax/debt issue will definitely make for an interesting news cycle after the new year.

Reid can't even get a budget through the Senate, how is he going to get this relatively unpopular measure to go anywhere? Even immediately after the shootings, a small majority of Americans (via Gallop polling) were against any additional gun control laws. That number will only get bigger as the shock and outrage of what happened wears off.

Sucks to be the people that paid $2-3k for AR-15s in the hype. When nothing happens, I bet prices drop lower than what they were even before the shootings.

[M2]

Sucks to be the people that paid $2-3k for AR-15s in the hype. When nothing happens, I bet prices drop lower than what they were even before the shootings.

I might even go deep sea diving in the Gulf of Mexico and retrieve all of my lost firearms...

[Buddy Spike]

I might even go deep sea diving in the Gulf of Mexico and retrieve all of my lost firearms...

I think I'm going to pick up an M&P 9 before the end of the year. Hope nothing happens when I go boating on New Years.

[HeloDude]

Reid can't even chose not to get a budget through the Senate...

FIFY. Reid deliberately did not get a budget passed in the Senate...they can't filibuster a budget.

...how is he going to get this relatively unpopular measure to go anywhere?

Well, it all depends on whether the GOP will filibuster the bill if it tries to get through procedural hurdles first. I personally want it to go before a final vote...see where everybody stands. More importantly than that, I just want it to go somewhere and fast...that way it can die sooner rather than later and supply/demand will somewhat stabilize.

Sucks to be the people that paid $2-3k for AR-15s in the hype. When nothing happens, I bet prices drop lower than what they were even before the shootings.

I have no sympathy for anybody who got 'scared' and over-payed for an AR or AK, or for magazines for that matter. Those folks have had 2-3 years to buy almost anything at very reasonable prices and if they waited until they feared they couldn't own something that they didn't care to own earlier, then so be it. The time to buy/stock up is not when there is a 'scare' or when prices are high. What will be interesting to see is will this be a replay for the 2008 election when things cooled off a year later, or will this cause more people to constantly be buying?

[M2]

There's two sides to the panic buy, read this great synopsis of what Feinstein proposes and you will understand what has got a lot of gun owners spooked. It's not only a proposed national firearms registry, but also a ban on selling any weapons listed in the ban. That could seriously undercut the value of a lot of guns, you don't know what they're worth unless someone has sold one similar.

And it's not just ARs and AKs, as that article states this law could in fact ban most modern handguns and rifles!

I think Feinstein won't find support for such a drastic proposal, she's gone far beyond what was initially conceived and Obama has already washed his hands of the whole affair by tossing it on Biden's lap. As Buddy Spike said, in a few weeks this horrible incident will be a distant memory in most American's goldfish-sized memories.

So while my collection still lies deep in the Gulf of Mexico, I do believe it will arise one day like the phoenix from the ashes. Thank God that idiots like Feinstein actually believe the rest of the world thinks like she does, as it is that misconception that keeps the possibility of a ban actually happening to a minimum. If she actually had a brain, she wouldn't have proposed something so drastic, and could have actually stood a chance of getting it approved. With such ridiculous proposals, I do think it is doomed.

If not, I am happy that all that cosmoline will keep my collection from rusting!

Cheers! M2

[HeloDude]

If not, I am happy that all that cosmoline will keep my collection from rusting!

The collection of course that still lies at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico...

Trust me, guys didn't panic buy because they heard what Feinstein was proposing (everybody knows where she stands/what she wants to do)...guys starting panicking because others starting buying quickly. It seemed to be something similar to a stock market crash.

As for the synopsis you posted, I follow MAC very closely. I love his videos and he comes across as very knowledgable, fun, and to the point--class act all the way.

[Creep]

I've been a pistol and shotgun guy for awhile now, but have been waiting till various circumstances in my life align to go and get an AR. The Tuesday following the shooting, I went down to my local fun store and decided to just do some window shopping, and maybe make a purchase since I had some rainy day money saved up. Boy, the sight was incredible. Every counter had 3-4 people filling out paper work. The rifles wall had just a couple tacticool .22lr ARs left. All I could do was laugh. While in the store, I overheard a couple of conversations between sales reps and customers, where the customers as a previous poster also commented on, clearly had absolutely zero knowledge of what it was they were buying...they just wanted to get their hands on ANY AR/AK. I left and went to another store nearby. Same exact scenario.

What I'm hoping for now is that when this whole mess dies down, there will be a large influx of like-new rifles on the used market being sold by people who no longer have any want for them at bargain prices. Same for ammo and mags. Keeping my fingers crossed. At any rate, if anyone comes across a good deal ever on an M4 style carbine, please post it!

[Learjetter]

Was in the neighborhood gun store today with the family, doing a little post-chirstmas sale shopping, and the owner was arguing with a AR-15 seller: seller wanted $2000 cash, telling store owner they were "going like hotcakes and he could get $2500 easy!" Store owner said: "You want that much, sell it online" Seller: "I keep getting flagged on Craigslist!" Owner: "Use Gunbroker" Seller: "What?"

It was laughable.

Then store owner got my attention: "My customers know what they're buying and selling, they're responsible folks, I like selling and buying from them, and I do NOT gouge them or I'd be out of business tomorrow. So, I can offer you fair market for a used AR, which I will sell tomorrow for fair retail value, or you can sell it online." The gun owner left in a huff, angry he wasn't getting quick cash--in his mind double what he paid for it and what he thought it was worth.

[HeloDude]

At any rate, if anyone comes across a good deal ever on an M4 style carbine, please post it

I posted the S&W M&P15 a couple of months ago from Buds LE...$600 when it was all said and done. I'm sure once the air clears in a few months Buds LE section will once again have some pretty decent deals. If you become a big enough gun nut (like a few of us on here are), you start checking your favorite gun websites several times a day, always keeping an eye out for that awesome deal.

[Hacker]

Despite the article that is saying that the gun control faction is in disarray, that by no means that this threat is over. If the Feinstein bill -- or even a gutted shadow of it -- passes and is signed, it will still be another significant move away from a crucial right.

Stay on the pressure to your elected representatives, ESPECIALLY now what the summary of Feinstein's proposal is out.

She basically proposes limiting gun owners to choose from anything designed before 1900. We're all going to be able to "bear arms" like the Colt SAA and the Winchester 1894 lever action, and that will be called "sensible restrictions".

The Cowboy Action Shooters and the hunters will shrug their shoulders and not care about the loss of ability to buy or own a Glock or AR....right up until some idiot shoots up a movie theater with a pair of six-shooters, and then the leftists will be asking for another round of "sensible restrictions" on the "high power handguns" that are only "designed to kill people". They'll be playing the clip from Dirty Harry in an endless loop, showing how we need to get "the most powerful handgun in the world, the .44 magnum" off the streets! DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!

[Spartacus]

If you are still looking for a somewhat descent price on an AR and are willing to wait (https://www.rockriverarms.com) seems to be pretty reasonable but you'll probably have to wait a while for it to show up. Also, I know this has been talked about somewhere on here before but the NRA is offering a free 1 year membership to active duty. (https://home.nra.org/#/nraorg)

[Creep]

I posted the S&W M&P15 a couple of months ago from Buds LE...$600 when it was all said and done. I'm sure once the air clears in a few months Buds LE section will once again have some pretty decent deals. If you become a big enough gun nut (like a few of us on here are), you start checking your favorite gun websites several times a day, always keeping an eye out for that awesome deal.

Thanks for the tip. That is a good deal indeed. And the way I see it, if I had enough expendable income to devote to my firearm interests, I'd probably qualify as a gun nut.

[billy pilgrim]

Looking for a solid semi-auto rifle while they are still legal. For a long time I was a big fan of the Springfield M1A for the larger round, but have been looking at some AR15's due to ammo availability and price.

Any advice? If I bought an AR15 I would be looking for a Colt, any other good brands out there?

Thanks...

[HU&W]

Looking for a solid semi-auto rifle while they are still legal. For a long time I was a big fan of the Springfield M1A for the larger round, but have been looking at some AR15's due to ammo availability and price.

Any advice? If I bought an AR15 I would be looking for a Colt, any other good brands out there?

Thanks...

See the post two previous to yours. RRA is better than Colt. Also recommend making your purchase about two months ago. Lots of great deals to be had.

ETA: I also like Spikes Tactical, but their prices have become somewhat elevated recently and they're backordered a year.

Edited December 29, 2012 by HU&W

[Beaver]

See the post two previous to yours. RRA is better than Colt. Also recommend making your purchase about two months ago. Lots of great deals to be had.

ETA: I also like Spikes Tactical, but their prices have become somewhat elevated recently and they're backordered a year.

Care to elaborate on RRA/Spikes v. Colt?

[HU&W]

Seen some poor QC on the basic Colt's. Every RRA I've seen or handled has been excellent with no QC issues. I should have qualified my comment that my opinion is that RRA beats Colt dollar for dollar. There's nothing wrong with most Colt's and it is hard to go wrong with the standard. Separately, I've been very impressed with the ST's I've handled. I would also check out wilson combat for nice rifles.