Gun Talk

[Hacker]

Personally, this EO order thing that was floated today scares me to death.

What exactly are you worried about with an EO?

EOs cannot make new law, they can only clarify/focus existing law.

[Square]

I'm not advocating for it but if the LEOs and Federal agents choose to enforce it (which I think a vast majority will say no thanks) there might something that is impossible to reverse once started.

I'm less optimistic about that. You know all the debates we have about careerism, shoeclerkism, etc in the Air Force? You don't think there are the same types of issues in federal and local law enforcement--not to mention that some of those same folks joined up just to be an authority figure? I think there are a lot of those folks who would willingly advance their careers by enforcing new firearms laws--and that doesn't even take into account those who legitimately believe that such new regulations are Constitutional and therefore should be legally enforced.

[Butters]

Sorry for the gigantic picture but I need some help. I was doing some light reading and working on some OPR bullets for later this year when I saw that video CH posted of the welfare queen wanting someone to pay for her 12 kids. Well, right when I was about to start shooting holes in my computer screen I thought I should check to see if had had enough ammunition to do the job right. When I removed the magazine I discovered the plastic housing had cracked. (see gigantic picture). Now with nsplayr, nsplayr's mom and Obama running around trying to take everyone’s guns away, I can't get a replacement 15rd magazine for a Glock 19.

How fucked up is that? Now I have to ask… has anyone seen any 15rd Glock 19 magazines for sale? Every gun shop in the state of Washington is sold out, as well as the entire internet.

[HeloDude]

Here's the deal with Nsplayr (as always, feel free to respond) as I see it:

NSplayr may be a big gun guy, if he says so, I'll take him at his word. The problem I have is that for a year+ he kept on bragging how Obama and the Dems in Congress had not tried to get any new gun control legislation passed and thus calling Obama 'anti-gun' wasn't warranted...even though if you read what he said in the past about guns/gun control and what he said in the debates (also what was in the DNC platform), it was pretty clear to me what Obama and the Democratic Party would like to do. Now we have Obama, not having to face another election, and a recent tragedy to exploit, which now allows him and many more Dems to come out more freely and be up front in what they would like to do. How does this affect Nsplayr?? Well it goes against everything he was saying about Obama (concering guns) and possibly puts Nsplayr at odds with a President that he idolizes as a champion for liberal and big government causes. But yet, Nsplayr's only real repsponse to what has been said by Obama and top Dems is "well, I don't see anything happening due to the fact that there are still pro-gun Dems in the Senate and the House is still controlled by the GOP". NSplayr has said very little (if anything) about how this is a bad move his beloved Dems (Feinstein and Pelosi are not small fish in the Dem Party) or his beloved President. This only further suggests that Nsplayr is more than willing to stand by his guys no matter what, as long as they continue to push the liberal agenda. This is what happens when somebody blindly supports their political party no matter what--they are willing to sacrifice liberties in order to get what they want...in Nsplayr's situation, he gets a more liberal/big government society and all he has to do is be willing the sacrifice some of his freedoms and liberties. The folks blindly supporting the GOP is just as at fault on the other spectrum--ie The Patriot Act, increased debt for prescription drugs, etc.

Would Romney have supported this anti-gun nonsense? Possibly as he did sign simillar legislation before, though he did say he would not have signed any new gun legislation whereas Obama said that he would. I have no doubt that Ron Paul or Gary Johnson would never have signed any new gun legislation.

[Buddy Spike]

Here's the deal with Nsplayr (as always, feel free to respond) as I see it:

NSplayr may be a big gun guy, if he says so, I'll take him at his word. The problem I have is that for a year+ he kept on bragging how Obama and the Dems in Congress had not tried to get any new gun control legislation passed and thus calling Obama 'anti-gun' wasn't warranted...even though if you read what he said in the past about guns/gun control and what he said in the debates (also what was in the DNC platform), it was pretty clear to me what Obama and the Democratic Party would like to do. Now we have Obama, not having to face another election, and a recent tragedy to exploit, which now allows him and many more Dems to come out more freely and be up front in what they would like to do. How does this affect Nsplayr?? Well it goes against everything he was saying about Obama (concering guns) and possibly puts Nsplayr at odds with a President that he idolizes as a champion for liberal and big government causes. But yet, Nsplayr's only real repsponse to what has been said by Obama and top Dems is "well, I don't see anything happening due to the fact that there are still pro-gun Dems in the Senate and the House is still controlled by the GOP". NSplayr has said very little (if anything) about how this is a bad move his beloved Dems (Feinstein and Pelosi are not small fish in the Dem Party) or his beloved President. This only further suggests that Nsplayr is more than willing to stand by his guys no matter what, as long as they continue to push the liberal agenda. This is what happens when somebody blindly supports their political party no matter what--they are willing to sacrifice liberties in order to get what they want...in Nsplayr's situation, he gets a more liberal/big government society and all he has to do is be willing the sacrifice some of his freedoms and liberties. The folks blindly supporting the GOP is just as at fault on the other spectrum--ie The Patriot Act, increased debt for prescription drugs, etc.

Would Romney have supported this anti-gun nonsense? Possibly as he did sign simillar legislation before, though he did say he would not have signed any new gun legislation whereas Obama said that he would. I have no doubt that Ron Paul or Gary Johnson would never have signed any new gun legislation.

This is the problem with liberals and Obama slurpers in general. They stick their heads in the sand and pretend like nothing is going on around them. They have NO IDEA who they voted for, and most don't care. To them, Obama is about an idea and history, not a person.

Idiots. All of them.

[Spartacus]

What exactly are you worried about with an EO?

EOs cannot make new law, they can only clarify/focus existing law.

Really dude? Have you seen some of the EO's that have been done over the past 4 years? If you think that this will not be an attempt at a gun grab then you probably need to be declared legally blind.

[Fuzz]

This is the problem with liberals and Obama slurpers in general. They stick their heads in the sand and pretend like nothing is going on around them. They have NO IDEA who they voted for, and most don't care. To them, Obama is about an idea and history, not a person.

Idiots. All of them.

Some people are figuring it out now that its hit their wallets.

https://twitchy.com/2013/01/06/crushed-unicorn-dreams-why-is-my-paycheck-less-turns-to-obama-vote-regrets-i-should-have-voted-romney/

[Hodor]

Seems like many people that voted for President Obama are starting to come out of the wood work. Seems many of them are the definition of a Useful Idiot.

[mxfreak54]

Anyone have any current links to 30 round AR mags? I got the link posted a couple days ago, just wondering if there is anything else out there before I purchase.

[Fuzz]

Good Luck

https://cnsnews.com/blog/gregory-gwyn-williams-jr/panic-one-million-ar-15-magazines-backorder

"Word is the great PMAG panic backorder of 2012/13 has topped 1 million at Magpul HQ."

[M2]

Not unexpected...

NRA Statement About Today's Meeting with Biden

Fairfax, Va. – The National Rifle Association of America is made up of over 4 million moms and dads, daughters and sons, who are involved in the national conversation about how to prevent a tragedy like Newtown from ever happening again. We attended today's White House meeting to discuss how to keep our children safe and were prepared to have a meaningful conversation about school safety, mental health issues, the marketing of violence to our kids and the collapse of federal prosecutions of violent criminals.

We were disappointed with how little this meeting had to do with keeping our children safe and how much it had to do with an agenda to attack the Second Amendment. While claiming that no policy proposals would be “prejudged,” this Task Force spent most of its time on proposed restrictions on lawful firearms owners - honest, taxpaying, hardworking Americans. It is unfortunate that this Administration continues to insist on pushing failed solutions to our nation's most pressing problems. We will not allow law-abiding gun owners to be blamed for the acts of criminals and madmen. Instead, we will now take our commitment and meaningful contributions to members of congress of both parties who are interested in having an honest conversation about what works - and what does not.

[Vertigo]

Really dude? Have you seen some of the EO's that have been done over the past 4 years? If you think that this will not be an attempt at a gun grab then you probably need to be declared legally blind.

I have-

Can you point to which EO's you find outrageous?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_executive_orders#Barack_Obama_.282009.E2.80.93present.29

[Butters]

I have-

Can you point to which EO's you find outrageous?

https://en.wikipedia....80.93present.29

This one:

13633 Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on Monday, December 24, 2012

I am outraged for the Jews.

[mp5g]

This article is an interesting take from a Russian opinion writer.

A few excerpts:

Americans never give up your guns

By: Stanislav Mishin

...

While President Putin pushes through reforms, the local authorities, especially in our vast hinterland, do not feel they need to act like they work for the people. They do as they please, a tyrannical class who knows they have absolutely nothing to fear from a relatively unarmed population. This in turn breeds not respect but absolute contempt and often enough, criminal abuse.

For those of us fighting for our traditional rights, the US 2nd Amendment is a rare light in an ever darkening room. Governments will use the excuse of trying to protect the people from maniacs and crime, but are in reality, it is the bureaucrats protecting their power and position. In all cases where guns are banned, gun crime continues and often increases. As for maniacs, be it nuts with cars (NYC, Chapel Hill NC), swords (Japan), knives (China) or home made bombs (everywhere), insane people strike. They throw acid (Pakistan, UK), they throw fire bombs (France), they attack. What is worse, is, that the best way to stop a maniac is not psychology or jail or "talking to them", it is a bullet in the head, that is why they are a maniac, because they are incapable of living in reality or stopping themselves.

The excuse that people will start shooting each other is also plain and silly. So it is our politicians saying that our society is full of incapable adolescents who can never be trusted? Then, please explain how we can trust them or the police, who themselves grew up and came from the same culture?

No it is about power and a total power over the people. There is a lot of desire to bad mouth the Tsar, particularly by the Communists, who claim he was a tyrant, and yet under him we were armed and under the progressives disarmed. Do not be fooled by a belief that progressives, leftists hate guns. Oh, no, they do not. What they hate is guns in the hands of those who are not marching in lock step of their ideology. They hate guns in the hands of those who think for themselves and do not obey without question. They hate guns in those whom they have slated for a barrel to the back of the ear.

So, do not fall for the false promises and do not extinguish the light that is left to allow humanity a measure of self respect.

[Buddy Spike]

I have-

Can you point to which EO's you find outrageous?

https://en.wikipedia....80.93present.29

https://www.cnn.com/2012/06/15/politics/immigration/index.html

[Hacker]

Really dude? Have you seen some of the EO's that have been done over the past 4 years? If you think that this will not be an attempt at a gun grab then you probably need to be declared legally blind.

Feel free to post up some examples of those EOs that created new law.

[Spartacus]

I have-

Can you point to which EO's you find outrageous?

https://en.wikipedia....80.93present.29

I'm not going to fall into your neat little trap that you've made. Let me just say that there are plenty of EO's that many people feel are outrageous and I am in that group. If you really don't know what I am talking about then google it and you'll see what I am talking about. Plenty of Obama's EO's strengthen the Executive branch of government without strengthening others which goes against our system of checks and balances. Some would even say that what he is doing is unconstitutional. Is it really that hard for you and Hacker to understand that the mentioning by Biden of EO use to limit second amendment rights is outrageous and scary to organizations like the NRA and law abiding gun owners?

Edited January 11, 2013 by Spartacus

[busdriver]

The EO thing is a bully tactic, it won't actually happen but the threat might be enough to get the right to come to the table.

[Hacker]

Is it really that hard for you and Hacker to understand that the mentioning by Biden of EO use to limit second amendment rights is outrageous and scary to organizations like the NRA and law abiding gun owners?

Just as "outrageous and scary" as an AR-15 appears to people who want the AWB, and with similar (lack of) rational reasoning behind it. Just because someone is scared of it doesn't make their fear logical or rational.

Biden can say just about anything he wants, but he is also not the person who can actually execute any of the "recommendations" he makes because those recommendations to have to adhere to any particular laws...which EOs do. Biden couldn't even say what the EO might do, because he has no idea. It is some gun owners who seem to be taking that comment and turning it into a 12-foot-tall monster in the closet, mostly based on their own lack of understanding of the law.

EOs have very specific guidelines that include not being able to create new law where there was not one previously. That is a fact. What someone is scared of them being is irrelevant.

[Boxhead]

I'm less optimistic about that. You know all the debates we have about careerism, shoeclerkism, etc in the Air Force? You don't think there are the same types of issues in federal and local law enforcement--not to mention that some of those same folks joined up just to be an authority figure? I think there are a lot of those folks who would willingly advance their careers by enforcing new firearms laws--and that doesn't even take into account those who legitimately believe that such new regulations are Constitutional and therefore should be legally enforced.

I got this email a while ago (I am sure many of you have as well, I don;t know if it's true, but based off my limited #'s checks, it's not far off:

"The World's Largest Army. America's Hunters?

The state of Wisconsin has gone an entire deer hunting season without someone getting killed. That's great. There were over 600,000 hunters. Allow me to restate that number. Over the last two months, the eighth largest army in the world - more men under arms than Iran; more than France and Germany combined - deployed to the woods of a single American state to help keep the deer menace at bay. But that pales in comparison to the 750,000 who are in the woods of Pennsylvania this week. Michigan 's 700,000 hunters have now returned home. Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia , and it is literally the case that the hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world. America will forever be safe from foreign invasion of troops with that kind of home-grown firepower.

Hunting - it's not just a way to fill the freezer. It's a matter of national security!

Now you know why the liberal anti-gun group wants to take the guns away."

I almost feel badly for the group that gets the order to "go get the guns". It may work in the first few places, maybe in some locations, but I know a whole bunch of places where that attempt would be met by a force that will be no easy task to overtake, even if it's just by numbers alone. Lots of Feds will be buried in the hills along the border of KY/WV. Granted, I am not advocating that, just reading the writing on the wall if they get goofy and try to exceed their reasonable authority. I honestly don't think the LEOs would be able to mount any type of legitimate force to counter this.

[Vertigo]

I'm not going to fall into your neat little trap that you've made. Let me just say that there are plenty of EO's that many people feel are outrageous and I am in that group. If you really don't know what I am talking about then google it and you'll see what I am talking about. Plenty of Obama's EO's strengthen the Executive branch of government without strengthening others which goes against our system of checks and balances. Some would even say that what he is doing is unconstitutional. Is it really that hard for you and Hacker to understand that the mentioning by Biden of EO use to limit second amendment rights is outrageous and scary to organizations like the NRA and law abiding gun owners?

In other words "No I can't... but Rush, Breitbart, and WND tells me he's turning his into a dictatorship and I'm too lazy to actually read any EOs to see if maybe they're conjuring up this crap to garner larger audiences."

Edited January 11, 2013 by Vertigo

[brickhistory]

How about the one that smoked an American citizen, and his 16 year old kid, with no due process?

As a practical matter, I have no issue with al-Alwaki (sp?) getting a Hellfire enema.

Philosophically, I do.

How about ordering the armed forces of the United States to engage in a protracted offensive military campaign against a sovereign nation without any sort of Congressional approval as in Libya?

I did, and do, have a problem with that. As well as Congress acting like a puss and not pursuing it.

Or appointing members of government requiring a Senate confirmation without one via recess appointment despite the Senate saying it was in session?

Again, the Senate let him get away with it, so that's on them.

Shall I continue?

[ChkHandleDn]

Very interesting Brady Bill testimony from a lady who lost both her parents when a guy began shooting up a restaurant.

https://beforeitsnews...eo-2524352.html

Edited January 11, 2013 by ChkHandleDn

[StoleIt]

https://membership.nrahq.org/forms/signup.asp?campaignid=bonusgiftwy&EK=Y2ARPPBC&pubID=148.30&hid=11051880

Decent NRA deal for membership. $10 dollars off normal price and they throw in a good looking duffel bag.

(Edit, forgot to add the link)

Edited January 11, 2013 by StoleIt

[M2]

Very interesting Brady Bill testimony from a lady who lost both her parents when a guy began shooting up a restaurant.

https://beforeitsnews...eo-2524352.html

That "lady" is Suzanna Hupp, the one person those of us who have concealed carry licenses from the state of Texas can thank for that privilege! She was a Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives from 1997-2007 (she did not seek a sixth term in 2006).

We have several politicians like her, our current Attorney General Greg Abbott is one. Many of us are hoping he will be our next governor if Rick Perry doesn't seek a fourth term!