Gun Talk

[HossHarris]

Invest in a good belt or three. 

Recommend thebeltman.net

[busdriver]

For a first belt buy a quality leather gun belt of "medium" stiffness. You're going to want something stiffer than your average belt, but the steel core or even worse the hoola hoop like webbing are an aquired taste.

[fire4effect]

5 hours ago, Kiloalpha said:

I have carried more in the past two weeks than I have in the last year. Now is a good a time as any. @busdriver is dead on. Start out with a leather holster (I have a crossbreed) and get used to where you're gonna carry it on the waistline. I started out with the gun around 4 o'clock, now I carry closer to 2.

Two things to acknowledge:

1) Plan on buying a waist size larger in pants (or shorts). The Glock 30 is not exactly thin at 1.3in. I have a Sig that is comparable, but I have a pair of pants that are a little baggy in the waist just to CCW the Sig. My dedicated carry gun is a M&P Shield in the less manly 9mm, and that thing takes up no space at the waist.

2) With that thicker profile on the G30, you're going to need to be a bit more conscious of printing. I'd play with various shirts, jackets and vests to see what shows the gun and what doesn't.

G30 is nice and uses a .45 round. Does have thick grips.  I used to carry  a single stack S&W .45 for a very long time and the mag catch finally gave up the ghost and couldn't find a replacement part. Did love that gun.  After a fair amount of internal debate I went with a Springfield XDM 9mm. Compact version has 3.8 inch barrel which is just under the Sig M-11s 3.9. OAL for XDM is 6.75 inches (pretty short for the barrel length) 13 round capacity with short mag (1.18 grip width). 9mm ammo performance has really improved over time and price and very ready availability is a plus. Use an Uncle Mikes IWB at only about 13-14 dollars and very thin material. Thin material means I can use with the pants I have. Even if it starts to wear out it cheap/easy to replace. 5.11 tactical has some concealment holster shirts you can wear under button dress shirt for deeper concealment. BTW LuckyGunner has some pretty decent ammo reviews for a large number of calibers/bullet weights including firing into gelatin.  YMMV 

Edited November 23, 2016 by fire4effect
spelling

[busdriver]

The issue with the flimsy nylon holsters is they collapse after you draw the pistol. Reholstering requires two hands and is difficult to do without sweeping your hand with the muzzle.

Kydex holsters are nice and very fast to draw, but like the super stiff belts, take some getting used to. Same story with appendix carry.

[brickhistory]

10 hours ago, Smokin said:

Won't change a thing.  Base commanders/managers are going to see allowing concealed carry on base as a high-risk/no reward scenario that will jeopardize their careers.  When previous Chief of Staff was asked about concealed carry at a base visit following the sea port shootings in CA, he spouted off the standard BS answer of 'how will law enforcement know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy when they arrive?'  Easy sir, the bad guy will be the dead dude laying on the pavement and the good guy will be the guy standing over him with a holstered firearm asking the cops what took them so long to get there.  Instead, we'll just have more of the same training about hiding under your desk and only confronting the bad guy when the barrel is on your temple.

This.

I spent several months and letters/e-mails to my Congressional critters this past winter while working at Offutt.  I specifically used the Dyess example as to how it could be done and was totally within the installation commander's purview to allow carry or carry and secure in vehicle while on base.

They sent the obligatory query to DAF who sent it to Offutt, whose base king said, "Would study the issue, but the risks blah, blah, blah."  Tried to follow-up with the Congressional staff, but their give-a-sh1t meter pegged way early.

Gonna try at Nellis, but given the results of the near sweep of the Congressional and Senate races to liberals, I don't feel lucky at that stage never mind the local wing guy approving.

But this DoD policy is a good step in the right direction.

 

[viper154]

Cannon has had concealed carry (in your vehicle) on base for a few months as well. Ideally I still would like to carry in my building but I'll take what I can get. This place is a shithole and it's nice not having to worry about being legal going through the gate with my Glock. 

It made some people get their panties in a twist out here, because if your military all you have to do for a conceal permit is mail in your orders and get finger printed. I took advantage of this soon as a I moved here but I am a fan of having a required safety class to get a carry permit. 

A couple times a month I hear people talk about how they want to get a gun even though they know nothing about shooting and immediately start conceal carrying and it drives me nuts. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by viper154

[tk1313]

28 minutes ago, viper154 said:

I took advantage of this soon as a I moved here but I am a fan of having a required safety class to get a carry permit. 

A couple times a month I hear people talk about how they want to get a gun even though they know nothing about shooting and immediately start conceal carrying and it drives me nuts. 

This. If shit goes down and someone pulls a weapon in public, you don't want the guy who's carrying concealed but has never taken a safety course whipping that thing out and pointing it sideways while people are frantically running in every direction. That's an obvious gross exaggeration, but you get my point.

Edited November 23, 2016 by tk1313

[Vixty]

I think instead of states asking for proof of military service to issue a CCW they should request a copy of a 522 that actually shows training with a handgun.  As most of us know, most AF members never get trained on the m9.  And even thoes who do take the m9 class are scarey with a m9/m4 in their hands.  I watched a captain just the other day try to load up her m9 in our tent with the muzzle pointed at somone sitting on the couch.  I was about to jump out of my boots but someone else got to her first.

  I'm a huge fan of states being friendly with military but at the same time i would feel better knowing that everyone carrying at least had some type of training with a handgun. 

[viper154]

1 hour ago, Vixty said:

I think instead of states asking for proof of military service to issue a CCW they should request a copy of a 522 that actually shows training with a handgun.  As most of us know, most AF members never get trained on the m9.  And even thoes who do take the m9 class are scarey with a m9/m4 in their hands.  I watched a captain just the other day try to load up her m9 in our tent with the muzzle pointed at somone sitting on the couch.  I was about to jump out of my boots but someone else got to her first.

  I'm a huge fan of states being friendly with military but at the same time i would feel better knowing that everyone carrying at least had some type of training with a handgun. 

100% agree. Carrying a gun is huge responsibility. Much like chairflying/talking about those odd "what if" situations in the jet  you need to ask yourself when are you going to draw the line in the sand and when you are going to keep it holstered in all different types of scenarios. If you wait until something actually happens your going to be to late and be dead or "jump the gun" (pun intended) and end up in prison. 

 

On a a lighter note, just bought my first NFA item, AAC M4 2000 for my ARs, put it on a trust, curious how y'all with NFA items have handled being in the military and potentially moving to a liberal anti 2nd amendment state?

[Smokin]

M9 qualification doesn't mean much.  My second time taking the M9 class, the instructor had the empty weapons sitting with the chamber open on the tables in front of us.  Half an hour into the class, he instructed everyone to check that the chamber was empty, release the slide, aim it at him, and pull the trigger repeatedly.  I thought it was a trap and never closed the slide only to watch dumbfounded as everyone else in the class blindly followed his instructions. I completely expected him to flip his shit and kick everyone out, but to my surprise, he walked around critiquing holds and such.

 

Good to hear some base commanders are actually allowing CC.  I fully expect that until the DOD makes it mandatory, most base commanders will pay lip service saying that the plan is 'under review' and such only to never do anything.

[M2]

2 hours ago, Vixty said:

I think instead of states asking for proof of military service to issue a CCW they should request a copy of a 522 that actually shows training with a handgun.  As most of us know, most AF members never get trained on the m9.  And even thoes who do take the m9 class are scarey with a m9/m4 in their hands.  I watched a captain just the other day try to load up her m9 in our tent with the muzzle pointed at somone sitting on the couch.  I was about to jump out of my boots but someone else got to her first.

  I'm a huge fan of states being friendly with military but at the same time i would feel better knowing that everyone carrying at least had some type of training with a handgun. 

[busdriver]

AF M9 qual is the puppy mill of firearms training. I'd bet the cop shop could get volunteers from on base to get checked out and teach a course of some sort. And it would be better than the M9 qual course.

[fire4effect]

23 hours ago, busdriver said:

The issue with the flimsy nylon holsters is they collapse after you draw the pistol. Reholstering requires two hands and is difficult to do without sweeping your hand with the muzzle.

Kydex holsters are nice and very fast to draw, but like the super stiff belts, take some getting used to. Same story with appendix carry.

Totally correct on the first two issues. I guess I've gotten so used to it I didn't think about putting it out here. Definitely a technique to avoid getting appendages in the way of the muzzle and something a new shooter should account for.

I like the idea of a training program for the M9 and hopefully for  non manual safety weapons (i.e. Glock) too since so many being sold are of that type. A lot of the SF bubbas carry the Glock 19 and swear by it but in a minimally trained individual a negligent discharge is a real possibility.

[Vixty]

15 hours ago, busdriver said:

AF M9 qual is the puppy mill of firearms training. I'd bet the cop shop could get volunteers from on base to get checked out and teach a course of some sort. And it would be better than the M9 qual course.

Yes our M9 class isn't that great but a lot of the classes normal civilians take arent much better.  Just like any other skill we possess such as flying, can't be taught in a one or two day class.  It takes time to develop skills so that when something bad actually does happen the fundementals are set in stone.

I shoot a lot of USPSA and IDPA along with practicing drawing from the waist band and engaging while retreating.  I also make sure my wife goes to the range with me every few months to do the same.  Nothing can simulate the real thing but having a solid fundimental base helps during a high stress situation.   We could argue all day as to how to fix this, but unless everyone takes personal responsibilty things will never change.  

[busdriver]

classes normal civilians take arent much better.

can't be taught in a one or two day class.

along with practicing

Comparing a puppy mill course to a check the box course isn't a particularly useful exercise. Nor is expecting the level of dedication of personal time of a competitive shooter.

Not having a clear, and realistic expectation of the course's output is part of the problem with the current M9 program.

[M2]

Agreed, while classes help, you're only going to get proficient by shooting as much as you can.  And I don't mean standing at the range, aiming for three minutes and then pulling the trigger.  That's fun for sport but not practical for a SHTF situation.

I recommend IDPA or similar events that simulate self-defense scenarios and real life encounters.  You'll find a huge difference when you're "scootin' and shootin'" and that center ring shots are not necessarily necessary in a life-or-death situation.  IDPA utilizes cover and concealment as well as off-hand scenarios that will push your limits as a shooter.  Luckily, while some are there to compete, many participate in such events simply to become better shooters!

Here is a video of some of the scenarios IDPA utilizes at a range not far north of Randolph just to give you an idea of how their events work...

For more info, check out their website: https://www.idpa.com/

Cheers!  M2

[M2]

Speaking of range fun, got to participate in another night shoot south of San Antonio last weekend.  While we were waiting on it to get dark, I decided to dig out the Yugo SKS and launch the M68 practice grenade for everyone's entertainment!
 

 

[fire4effect]

One other thing I tell people to get with their first handgun is a good flashlight like a Surefire. When things go bad it more likely the lighting will be less than ideal.  I carry  it in my pocket every where I go and it sits next to my pistol on the nightstand  at night. Flashlight goes a long way in helping with target acquisition and a true threat assessment.

[busdriver]

More important than all the tactical ninja stuff is understanding the law of self defense.

[M2]

1 hour ago, fire4effect said:

One other thing I tell people to get with their first handgun is a good flashlight like a Surefire. When things go bad it more likely the lighting will be less than ideal.  I carry  it in my pocket every where I go and it sits next to my pistol on the nightstand  at night. Flashlight goes a long way in helping with target acquisition and a true threat assessment.

Unfortunately, few people get the opportunity to actually shoot using a flashlight.  I can tell you it is not as easy as it appears. 

I have never been a huge fan of gun-mounted lights as they give the bad guy a target to shoot out, but after participating in an exercise that involved shooting at targets with pistols at night while moving, I found a weapons light was the better set-up.

Optimally, I go with what the police department here trains on, which is both.  I now have a TLR on the closest pistol to me where I sleep (a Springfield XD-45) but also a 600 lumen flashlight.  I like having options...

[hispeed7721]

More important than all the tactical ninja stuff is understanding the law of self defense.

THIS.

Too many people think they can just carry a gun and shoot anyone who threatens them, with no negative repercussions. Having the requisite knowledge to understand the law as well as your rights after you've used your carry weapon is incredibly important


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[Vixty]

IDPA is good because it makes you use cover but its very slow paced and honestly doesn't make someone think under pressure. They tell you how you're going to shoot a course of fire and if you don't follow all the silly "real life" rules you get hit with all kinds of penalties. A combination of USPSA and IDPA is best and both are usually shot at a range that offers at least one of them. I think the biggest thing these two associations offer is good gun safety practices.    

[busdriver]

both are usually shot at a range that offers at least one of them.

I guess they could be shot in the parking lot or the local mall food court?....

The correct answer for anyone that cares is, if you have an inkling that competing would be fun just go try whatever is closest. There will be plenty of not so good shooters where ever you go. Just tell them you're a newb and be safe.

If you're in the Langley area, I'll roll with you.

[M2]

On 11/25/2016 at 3:04 AM, Vixty said:

IDPA is good because it makes you use cover but its very slow paced and honestly doesn't make someone think under pressure. They tell you how you're going to shoot a course of fire and if you don't follow all the silly "real life" rules you get hit with all kinds of penalties. A combination of USPSA and IDPA is best and both are usually shot at a range that offers at least one of them. I think the biggest thing these two associations offer is good gun safety practices.    

Yes, it is not an exactly scenario but it's a lot better than standing at the range and taking your time shooting at paper targets.  At least IDPA makes you move through the course and engage targets.  It will give you a more realistic understanding of your capabilities (and lack thereof) than just range shooting.

On a different note, picked up two Heritage Rough Rider 6.5" .22LR single-action revolvers during the Academy Black Friday sale yesterday.  They were only $99 each but I had to roll out of bed at 4am to get in line; but I've always wanted one of these and thought they'd make good companion pieces to the Henry Frontier I picked up a few weeks ago...

Cheers!  M2

[ATIS]

Glad I don't live in that state anymore:

"On the West Coast, gun owners in California will face new restrictions after Gov. Jerry Brown signed a law banning the purchase of semiautomatic rifles with so-called “evil features.”

The “evil features” include pistol grips, flash hiders and bullet-buttons that make it easier to remove and replace ammunition magazines. The Los Angeles Times reported an increase in gun purchases in the lead-up to the Jan. 1 implementation."

Full article: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/27/weed-guns-and-catfish-2017-brings-new-laws-big-changes.html

That man has probably never seen real "evil", and I hope he never does. I cry for this country sometimes.

ATIS