M2 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Fogo Nice, that XD9 Tac should be insanely accurate! You've got a higher-speed round and the longer barrel, and once you get used to it, you should be able to get some nice tight groups! When you get good with it, take some pics as I would be interested to see how accurate you are with it. Cheers! M2
JarheadBoom Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Just had to let M2 and the rest of the XD crowd know that I have joined the community. 2 Went to the rental-range and put 50 rounds of 230gr TMJ Speer Lawman through their XD-45 Tactical (they didn't have a Service in .45). Had 2 FTFs that I'm chalking up to the gun being dirty - damn thing looked like it had been in a firefight. The slide was definitely stiffer than what I remembered from the one I put the deposit on, so I wasn't too concerned about that. Left the range, went straight to the gunshop and bought my XD-45 Service and a generic hard-side case.
Guest zookrider Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 And whereas I love the 1911, you can't argue that the XD is a much more reliable weapon. Plus, as I've stated before, it has a much greater capacity. I'll assume you meant you can't argue the 1911 is much more reliable. In the short term, probably so. In the long term, I'm not so sure. Some 1911's run over a quarter million rounds and many decades in military service. The XD's not proven that yet (not saying it won't). The XD uses that half-cock striker that I'd worry about for both reliability and safety a little bit. In a standard government model, the 1911 has lower capacity, but it also has a slimmer profile and better trigger. In a double stack, it just has a better trigger, but same capacity. It is like comparing the P-51 to the F-15. Both are wonderful platforms, but which would you want in a modern battle? I'd say it's more like comparing an F-15 with an Orao. Respectively the Eagles of the US and the former Yugoslavia. And for the record, I'd choose an M-16 over an AK every time I want to hit something.
BigFreddie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Standard grade 1911s are a little painful to shoot. No beavertail grip safety and other modern enhancements. Then folks want to tighten all the tolerances and make them more accurate - which causes them to be less reliable. I went to a pistol class last year with Larry Vickers (www.vickerstactical.com). The guy is more than qualified to comment on guns - was a Delta force guy for a long-time, was one of their premier trainers, also is one of the most sought after 1911 gunsmiths in the world (I've seen his guns go for $10,000+), and has advised several major companies on how to build the most reliable combat pistols in the world. His direct quote during malfunction training was, "If you have a true ball of shit, which means if you’ve shot a 1911 for more than about a half hour, then this is how you clear the malfunction…" That being said, there is a reason the 1911 is going on 98 years of continuous use in the military, police and civilian worlds... BF
Marco Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Took my wife to the pistol range and put a Glock 21 in her hands. Suffice to say, that I was surprised and will make sure that the gun is nowhere around when we get in an argument. She lit that f*cker up something fierce.
Guest AceTomatoCo Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 M2 and other Texans, I have just moved to the Fort Worth area and need to know where everyone goes to shoot both handgun and long rifles as well as some of the assult variety.
M2 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Zook Let's just agree that I know what I am talking about and you don't! Just kidding, but if you are a fan of the 1911 (like I suspect you are, and I am the same), we both know that the platform is excellent but not quite as reliable as the XD. Sure, they've been around for nearly 100 years and the XD only a few; but anyone who has owned both and done their research know that the 1911 is more prone to FTF/FTEs than the XD. The XD is near perfect in that regard, no matter what ammo you put through it. As for the AR over the AK, I expect that response from most Americans; but as an assault weapon the AK is a better choice. Yes, the AR is probably a better rifle; but the AK is a better assault weapon! There is clearly a difference and the mere fact that there are millions of AKs being produced all over the globe, and not that many countries that have jumped on the AR platform, it is again clear to see that one has become a clear choice. Hell, the fact that ARs are STILL having jamming issues nearly 40 years after being introduced tells me there is something inherently wrong with it. An Army LTC that I work with brought his new M-4 to the range, and it FTF'd during the first magazine. My AK has yet to FTF/FTE. Sure, it is harder to be accurate with an AK at longer ranges (but it is possible); the fact that it fires everytime I squeeze the trigger makes it the logial choice. Cheers! M2
tac airlifter Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 As for the AR over the AK, I expect that response from most Americans; but as an assault weapon the AK is a better choice. Yes, the AR is probably a better rifle; but the AK is a better assault weapon! There is clearly a difference and the mere fact that there are millions of AKs being produced all over the globe, and not that many countries that have jumped on the AR platform, it is again clear to see that one has become a clear choice. Hell, the fact that ARs are STILL having jamming issues nearly 40 years after being introduced tells me there is something inherently wrong with it. An Army LTC that I work with brought his new M-4 to the range, and it FTF'd during the first magazine. My AK has yet to FTF/FTE. Sure, it is harder to be accurate with an AK at longer ranges (but it is possible); the fact that it fires everytime I squeeze the trigger makes it the logial choice. Cheers! M2 That being said, what are you thoughts on the new variety of piston driven AR's out there? I know each is different depending in the company, but in theory it seems to be offering the best of both worlds. Accuracy/modularity of the AR platform with a more reliable operating system (AK). I have an XCR already and am not as impressed as I thought I would be, but I think thats on me for buying that particular rifle. I'm thinking about dropping some serious cash on an LMT piston AR and would liek any thoughts you guys have.
JarheadBoom Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I read something recently about the new wave of piston-driven ARs (sorry, can't remember the source). The writer seemed pretty sure that a piston-driven AR would soon show other wear and manifest other malfunctions, due to the different nature of the force applied to the bolt carrier by the piston. Dunno if I agree, but I've never held a piston-driven AR, much less fired one, so my opinion on it doesn't mean much. <break> Anyone else unable to find WWB in 45ACP at Wallyworld lately? The counter guy at my local store (who, amazingly enough, seemed to have a clue) said they'd only been receiving only 1-2 boxes at a time for a while, and their (Wal-Mart's) distribution center has been out of it for the last 2 weeks. No idea when it would be back in stock. I ended up buying their last box of Remington UMC 230gr FMJ...
Guest JollyFlight21 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 (edited) I just got my S&W M&P15A a month or so ago and looooovvvveee it. I've only put about 500 rds through it, but no FTF yet. Plus, my AR is waaay sexier than an AK, and who are we kidding here, looks are important too... Edited January 6, 2009 by JollyFlight21
tac airlifter Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I read something recently about the new wave of piston-driven ARs (sorry, can't remember the source). The writer seemed pretty sure that a piston-driven AR would soon show other wear and manifest other malfunctions, due to the different nature of the force applied to the bolt carrier by the piston. Dunno if I agree, but I've never held a piston-driven AR, much less fired one, so my opinion on it doesn't mean much. That may be true, but I'm not putting 10k rounds through mine a year; I don't have the time or cash! My interest in the piston guns is pretty simple- easier to clean. I love the AR, but cleaning a DI weapon is a tedious task.
busdriver Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 (edited) Look up the ADC piston system. The initial test guy put something like 5000 rounds through it without cleaning, no FTF or FTE ever. The AR still has small parts/springs that make it prone to failure. However, a piston system while easier to clean also heats the BCG less (very little actually) so those little springs (extractor) are less prone to failure. Will the AR DESIGN be as reliable as the AK DESIGN with the addition of the piston? Probably not. The AK was designed so that inferior craftsmanship would affect it less. Also, many AR problems are due to magazines. EVERY AR failure I've ever had was due to a GI mag, PMAGs do wonders. That said, AKs are not immune to problems. A friend was involved in Iraqi advising, training helo guys. They would receive shipments of AKs and he said they often had to combine 2 or 3 AKs to make one good reliable weapon. Granted some of this was piss poor quality control that sometimes meant missing parts! But for an equal quality AR, an AK will always be less expensive. On the other hand, if you deploy with an AR, you should probably train with one. EDIT for spelling Edited January 7, 2009 by busdriver
M2 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I just got my S&W M&P15A a month or so ago and looooovvvveee it. I've only put about 500 rds through it, but no FTF yet. Plus, my AR is waaay sexier than an AK, and who are we kidding here, looks are important too... Sorry, it don't get no sexier than this! Cheers! M2
slacker Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Sorry, it don't get no sexier than this! Cheers! M2 Dang- those are some nice guns. I would surrender of my own free will, screw the code.
Guest zookrider Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Zook Let's just agree that I know what I am talking about and you don't! In that case, do you realize that the gun in your way hot picture (thanks for that) is a Czech VZ58, and not an AK? Cause it looks like you think it's an AK. Just sayin. Cause they're not the same thing. Nuff on that. I've got a political idea. I think we should all ask our congressmen, the NRA, the AFA, VFW, etc... to promote legislation for "shall issue" federal universal concealed carry permits for anyone who's ever held the rank of E-7 or higher (and who passes background check, yadda yadda). To anyone who's reading this forum the sense of it should be apparent. I don't expect it to become a reality in the short term, but imagine the points pro-gun/pro-military congressmen/senators could score on anybody who opposes it: "Senator, am I to understand that you support and trust the military officers who control the world's most powerful billion-dollar weapons, but not enough to believe they can be trusted with a pistol? Really?!"
M2 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 In that case, do you realize that the gun in your way hot picture (thanks for that) is a Czech VZ58, and not an AK? Cause it looks like you think it's an AK. Just sayin. Cause they're not the same thing. Dude, the mere fact that you even noticed that there was a CZ58 in the picture makes me wonder. It took me over 15 minutes to realize that! It's like bithcing about the fact that she, the perfect woman, has her finger on the triggers in the following pic... And trust me, I shot the CZ58 when I was doing some training with the Slovak Special Forces, I realize their parts are not interchangable with the standard AK but they are still a "distant cousin" of it.
StoleIt Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Yes...terrible trigger discipline...just terrible...
Guest Tracer_Tong Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) My setup: Romanian WASR 10/63 Mossberg 500 cruiser (I have since replaced it with a Knoxx SpecOps stock) I also removed that huge med pouch on the left. I think I'm gonna stick it on an external hydration carrier Edited January 8, 2009 by Tracer_Tong
JarheadBoom Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) Also, many AR problems are due to magazines. EVERY AR failure I've ever had was due to a GI mag, PMAGs do wonders. Never seen a PMag in person, but I agree 100% that most AR failures are magazine-related. When I was in the Corps, every M-16 stoppage I ever had myself, or witnessed others experience, were all magazine-related. The feedlips are delicate on USGI mags, and the slightest tweak/dent renders them all but useless. Answering my own question from earlier: While I was out doing other stuff, I went by my local Wallyworld to see if they had any .45 ammo. They had 2 boxes of Win. White Box on the shelf.... now I have 2 boxes of WWB. Three more magazines should be arriving on the big brown truck tomorrow as well. I might have to head to the range on Friday... Edited for format/clarity. Edited January 8, 2009 by JarheadBoom
busdriver Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (edited) For those of you who haven't seen a PMAG, the follower is designed so that it cannot tilt and the plastic feed lips are very strong. I haven't had the chance to test this myself, but I read an internet test report from a guy who left one loaded his entire deployment (army style) only unloading it by shooting and it fed perfectly the entire year. This was a pre-production example as well. EDIT: I have a few, but only had 2 trips to the range to test them. So my personal experience isn't enough to go on. Edited January 8, 2009 by busdriver
Guest zookrider Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Dude, the mere fact that you even noticed that there was a CZ58 in the picture makes me wonder. It took me over 15 minutes to realize that! Meh, I got a hot wife who just bought her second AR. Only took me 14 minutes to see the VZ. -- PMAGs are GTG. Video is of a PMAG getting run over by a truck then functioning fine: To save the feed lips, PMAGs come with a plastic pop-off cover that saves the pressure on them and protects on the outside. kinda a cool feature. They're also available in a bunch of colors and capacities and with round-count windows. Lots of gingerbread for a 20$ mag. The other, pricier, heavier, and very high quality feeling mag is the HK mags made for the Brit SA80 (but work in AR's). They're built like a mercedes diesel. About 50$ a pop though.
slacker Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Meh, I got a hot wife who just bought her second AR. Only took me 14 minutes to see the VZ. Standing Board rule- If you claim a hot wife or girlfriend- MUST POST PICS or face lifetime ban.
Guest zookrider Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Better the ban than getting shot by an angry woman.
slacker Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 she'll never know! Heck, if she found out, she'd probably be flattered. Now quit making excuses and post a pic of said hot wife.
Guest Fogo Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 (edited) Fogo Nice, that XD9 Tac should be insanely accurate! You've got a higher-speed round and the longer barrel, and once you get used to it, you should be able to get some nice tight groups! When you get good with it, take some pics as I would be interested to see how accurate you are with it. Cheers! M2 Took the XD9 Tac to the range for the first time this morning. Wasn't there long, but put 6 mags through it. For someone who only shoots a couple times a month and using a new gun for the very first time; I shot fairly well. Groupings were moderate, but everything was in a good spot on the head or torso. By the last couple magazines it really began to feel natural and was going where I wanted to. The wife (who had only shot a revolver previously) put a magazine through it and was even fairly accurate with it. So far so good on my XD experience. As well, for any of you XD or other polymer owners, what are your cleaning tips? I've yet to own a polymer. Is there anything you have noticed does or doesnt work? Will your standard oils and solvents harm the polymer? What about gun scrubber? I heard they made a synthetic safe version, so I am assuming the standard stuff is bad for the polymer. Any tips are welcome. Edited January 10, 2009 by Fogo
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