Gun Talk

[StoleIt]

No free float rail? Tisk tisk.

(Not really, mine isn't either. On my to do list)

[Timbonez]

It is free floating. The VIS is a one piece upper with the rail structure free floating the barrel. I even mentioned that in the previous post, but I forgive you Stoleit. Personally, however, I do not think a free float rail is necessary for a 16" or shorter but YMMV. In fact, my BCM just uses a midlength MOE handguard. Edited March 21, 2011 by Timbonez

[StoleIt]

Oh never know that's what a VIS was. Odd you kept the front sight post (different strokes STS).

Yea I have a mid length that isn't free floating. Free float is nice, but really unnecessary for the ranges we probably shoot at.

How do you like the Magpul MOA?

Edit: And I hate my front post. If I did it again I would definitely have a gas block.

Edited March 21, 2011 by stoleit2x

[Timbonez]

I like the Magpul MOE. It is ergonomic, light, and you can add small rail attachments to it so you can still attach lights, grips, and other stupid shit off the front of the rifle if you want. As you can see on my Noveske, I am not even using the rails right now. I mentioned that I'll be adding a light to it and my forward sling attachment will be on the rails too, but that still leaves a lot of unused rail space and weight. The MOE solves this problem.

ETA: I prefer the fixed FSP, but that is just me. I have them on the 4 ARs I own. It does not distract me when I am using the red dots on my Noveske or BCM either.

Edited March 21, 2011 by Timbonez

[brickhistory]

Smith & Wesson M&P 9mm

not my photo

I wasn't looking to buy this gun. I'm not really enamored by this gun's looks and wasn't when I purchased it. It's another black, polymer auto in a market flooded with the same by various manufacturers.

Glocks just don't feel right to me, H&Ks don't do anything for me, neither do XDs. I'm not faulting any of those brands as they obviously have a huge share of the market and have glowing reviews here and elsewhere. For me, however, none of them really did anything for me in the looks ("cool" department if you will) or any other reason I can think of.

This M&P is in the same boat. I've read a bit that it is utterly reliable. That it has a good reputation for quality in the manufacturing, yada, yada, yada. Still it did nothing for me. Made in the U.S.A.

I was in the market for another 9mm to go with my Walther P99 and had seriously been considering the Colt Defender in the smaller caliber. When one of my local dealers offered me this M&P for $400 + tax, my logic - to quote Dave Barry, "I am not making this up" - was that I could get this in 9mm and then get the Colt in .45 which is what I wanted anyway. As if I had to rationalize anything to anyone. But that's how I made it work in my brain. Besides, a Colt 1911-ish in anything but .45 is blasphemy anyway.

So I got the gun. I reset my disposable income meter to "E" and started saving for the Defender, but that's for a later, hopefully, time.

Plastic box with foam cut-outs, two 17 round clips, three different sizes for backstraps, a lock, the gun, and instructions.

I put the largest backstrap on this one. The very bottom of the frame contains a plastic tip that rotates to pull a long pin out of the grip. Pull this, swap grips, there ya go.

The fit and finish of the gun is pretty good. Tight but not ludicrously so on the slide and magazine release. There is no safety on this version, so don't touch the trigger (more on this later) if you don't want it to go off.

I played hookey today and did some errands. 300 rounds through this was one of them. Equally split between 147gr. ball and 147gr. JHPs, and it never skipped a beat. Not a jam, not a FTE, not a failure to fully seat, nothing. Boringly reliable.

I usually shoot 10 rounds per clip as after that, aimed fire for me requires a break after that number. And it eats through a 50 round box more slowly than going 18 at a pop. Hey, I'm old now, I need a break in between...

The gun is striker fired and double-action only. The trigger is ok, no great shakes as far as crispness, but it's not a hike to take the slack out of it either. One characteristic that I didn't like, actually two, was the trigger has a pivot/hinge in it about half-way down. I guess it's to avoid such a long pull in a reasonably short pistol, but it felt goofy. The other thing that I didn't care for was this was a no-kidding double-action only trigger. Second shots for double taps were awkward as I'm used to the single-action follow up from every other pistol I own. First shot, no problem, but attempting a rapid follow-up was disconcerting the first few times because you had to let the trigger go forward.i.e., it's just what the label says, double action. Every pull is exactly the same. This reads/sounds much worse than it is; it's just different. Nothing that some more time/familiarization won't cure, but it must be done if this is to be a carry gun.

Specs:

Overall length: 7.5"

Barrel length: 4.25"

Height: 5.50"

Width: 1.08"

Weight empty: 24 oz

Capacity: 17+1 9mm

The length and height are just under an inch more than my primary CCW, a Bersa .45 which is a 7+1, all steel. The weight is not even close, the S&W wins hands down.

Field-stripping and cleaning it are pretty standard save for one step: lock the slide back, pull the grip tool, use it to fish the sear pin down into the empty magazine well, rotate the take-down lever, pull the slide forward, remove the spring and rod, remove the barrel, clean, reverse the steps except for the sear pin -which putting a magazine in does for you - and there you have it.

As this is a service weapon, I think the needed any extra tool to strip it is a fail. Sure, a paper clip could fish the sear pin down if need be, but that step in itself is a no-go for field conditions to me. Likewise, lose the grip pin needed and not only can you not strip the gun, but the backstrap is held on by that pin. Lose it and it could be awkward.

As I started out by saying, this gun does nothing for me. I like, mostly, the old school stuff - steel, wood, blued, etc, etc. As much as I don't feel much for this pistol, I am gong to replace my heavy steel.45 for CCW when I'm able to carry a larger pistol under a jacket, sweater, etc with this S&W. For summer, it's probably a little big.

As has been noted in previous posts in this thread, those that carry do so not wanting to have to use it, but if required, want something utterly reliable. The downside of that selection is often times it's gonna be a pricey gun. It'd be worth it to be the one still around to explain to the cops what happened, but those same cops are most likely to take your gun with them. It will be a long time before, or if, you see that one again.

For reliability and not shedding a tear if it should ever be taken, God forbid, this is a good one for me. It did, however, probably keep me from getting the Beretta Px4 Storm. I don't think I'll be getting another 9mm auto anytime soon. Something could tempt me, but not just now.

Edited March 21, 2011 by brickhistory

[M2]

Well, I found a Tula M44 this weekend for $200 shipped from a guy in Michigan (see post #2208 for back story). It's counterbored, but otherwise in excellent condition according to the seller. That was my ballpark price so I'm happy, now I just need to get to the post office for a money order. I also need one for a Bulgarian AKS-74 paratrooper drop case that I am buying for my SAR-1...

I have one for my Khyber Pass and it's a great way to store and transport a folding stock AK!

Cheers! M2

[Timbonez]

M2, your Communist stockpile is no match for my arsenal of freedom. Anyway, sweet find.

Brick, good review. The M&P series of handguns are some of the best service/duty/defense pistols you can buy. You should be able to use your finger to move the sear lever during takedown if you don't want to use the tool. I was able to on the M&P45 I owned. The joint in the trigger is actually a "trigger safety" similar in function, but different in execution, to Glock's safe action trigger. The lower piece of the M&P trigger has to be pulled in order to actually fire.

[Beaver]

The gun is striker fired and double-action only. The trigger is ok, no great shakes as far as crispness, but it's not a hike to take the slack out of it either. One characteristic that I didn't like, actually two, was the trigger has a pivot/hinge in it about half-way down. I guess it's to avoid such a long pull in a reasonably short pistol, but it felt goofy. The other thing that I didn't care for was this was a no-kidding double-action only trigger. Second shots for double taps were awkward as I'm used to the single-action follow up from every other pistol I own. First shot, no problem, but attempting a rapid follow-up was disconcerting the first few times because you had to let the trigger go forward.i.e., it's just what the label says, double action. Every pull is exactly the same.

Not to be a nerd here, but it isn't striker fired AND double action only. It's just striker fired. The striker is cocked by the motion of the slide, either by chambering the first round or firing subsequent shots. There is no hammer, and pulling the trigger doesn't cock the striker. Only the movement of the slide does. You are correct, though, the trigger pull is exactly the same between shots.

That being said, I also have a M&P 9MM, and shoot it quite a bit. I've installed a new hard sear and striker block from Apex Tactical. My trigger is now pretty smooth and crisp, with a short reset. From what it sounds like you may want to do some dry-fire practice to find the reset point on your trigger, then concentrate on releasing the trigger to that point while you simultaneously get the gun back on target for follow up shots.

More striker fired vs. DA nerdery

Apex Tactical

[Timbonez]

Nevermind...

Beaver, did you find removing the rear sight on your M&P a pain in order to install the new striker block?

Edited March 23, 2011 by Timbonez

[Beaver]

Nevermind...

Beaver, did you find removing the rear sight on your M&P a pain in order to install the new striker block?

The whole install for the sear and striker block was pretty easy. That being said, I have had 3 failures to fire in about 2,000 rounds since the install. All were with Winchester white box, and 2 were on a day when it was 24 degrees out. Several other guns had light strikes with WWB as well. YMMV.

[Timbonez]

Thanks, I was just curious. I don't think I will buy a different handgun design anymore as I already have to deal with SIG, Beretta, Glock, 1911s, and Hi Powers. I need to just focus on one of those now.

[Butters]

BULL SHIT!!!!

Has anyone done their PHA lately?

Why am I asking this?

There is now a question on the on-line PHA survey that talks about weapons safey...

Do you have guns in the house or garage?

Are they unloaded and locked?

My answers were yes and no.

I was then counseled by airman sunffy about gun safety.... "You need to unload your gun and lock them up"

I then responded with this....

Me: Do you have a car?

Dumb ass: Yes.

Me: Do you keep gas in it?

Dumb ass: Yes.

Me: Is it in your garage with no wheels on it sitting on concrete blocks?

Dumb ass: No.

Me: Exactly, guns only work when they are in reach and loaded.

[Timbonez]

When I had my PHA last year, those questions were a part of the survey. I declined to answer.

[magnetfreezer]

BULL SHIT!!!!

Has anyone done their PHA lately?

Why am I asking this?

There is now a question on the on-line PHA survey that talks about weapons safey...

Do you have guns in the house or garage?

Are they unloaded and locked?

My answers were yes and no.

I was then counseled by airman sunffy about gun safety.... "You need to unload your gun and lock them up"

I then responded with this....

Me: Do you have a car?

Dumb ass: Yes.

Me: Do you keep gas in it?

Dumb ass: Yes.

Me: Is it in your garage with no wheels on it sitting on concrete blocks?

Dumb ass: No.

Me: Exactly, guns only work when they are in reach and loaded.

Answering the "how often do you drink?" question as any more than about 1-2/month can also result in unwanted follow up appointments from Public Health, as well.

[brickhistory]

The joint in the trigger is actually a "trigger safety" similar in function, but different in execution, to Glock's safe action trigger. The lower piece of the M&P trigger has to be pulled in order to actually fire.

I see my 1980s Political Science degree didn't go to waste. Your technical description of what it actually is captures my description of "goofy."

edited to add:

Edited March 23, 2011 by brickhistory

[Timbonez]

I see my 1980s Political Science degree didn't go to waste. Your technical description of what it actually is captures my description of "goofy."

edited to add:

It only makes sense to you because I was a Political Science major as well. Kind of like the blind leading the blind.

[HU&W]

There is now a question on the on-line PHA survey that talks about weapons safey...

Do you have guns in the house or garage?

Are they unloaded and locked?

Just wait, on your next PHA, Airman Snuffy will be counseling you that you should sit down to put on your pants each day. Much safer than standing and lifting one leg at a time.

[HeloDude]

Much safer than standing and lifting one leg at a time.

Well duh'! <sarcasm>

[BigFreddie]

Nevermind...

Beaver, did you find removing the rear sight on your M&P a pain in order to install the new striker block?

I've replaced pretty much all my stock trigger parts on my M&P with APEX parts. The reset assist mechanism from them is great as well for changing a relatively weak reset to one more like a Glock. If you find you don't like the grip texture on the inserts you can buy modified ones from a few dealers for around $30. And if anyone wants to swap out their sights, I have the massive M&P only sight tool - I'd be glad to send it to anyone who needs it for the cost of shipping only...

BF

[Timbonez]

I've replaced pretty much all my stock trigger parts on my M&P with APEX parts. The reset assist mechanism from them is great as well for changing a relatively weak reset to one more like a Glock. If you find you don't like the grip texture on the inserts you can buy modified ones from a few dealers for around $30. And if anyone wants to swap out their sights, I have the massive M&P only sight tool - I'd be glad to send it to anyone who needs it for the cost of shipping only...

BF

Thanks, BF. I have no intention of buying an M&P. I am happy with what I have. I was just curious how simple it was since the striker block is held in place by the rear sight.

[M2]

Well, like a good Communist I am adding to the arsenal. Thursday I drive an hour out into rural Texas to pick this up...

It's a Century Romanian WASR-10 in "excellent condition" and only 30 "flawless" rounds down the pipe, and the seller ensures me that the sights are straight. It has two steel mags, a bayonet, and cleaning kit for $390. I didn't see a single WASR-10 for under $450 at last weekend's gun show, and if for any reason I end up not liking it I already have someone who wants to buy it from me if I decide to sell it.

Oh, and I picked up some brand new Polish swelled palm handguards and a pistol grip this past weekend, so I might end up throwing them on this to see how it looks!

I will now have as many AKs as I have SKS rifles! But both combined aren't even close to the number of Mosins I got!

Cheers! M2

[M2]

By the way, it was a hundred years ago today that the US Army adopted the M1911!

If you've got a half-hour, this is worth watching!

Cheers! M2

[brickhistory]

M2, I'm assuming you're purchasing from private individuals. What are you using to find these guns? Classifieds? Forums?

Opulence...he haz it...

[Timbonez]

M2 beat me to it. I told the wife that I am obligated to buy another 1911 today to honor the 100th anniversary.

[Square]

Took delivery of a new rifle on Saturday. Saiga 7.62, 16 inch barrel in the "sporter" configuration. This will someday be a real, honest to goodness AK with an opened up mag well, different trigger, and non-sporter stock and grip (along with probably some sort of rail system--this is going to be a tacticool AK)... but in the nearer term I'm moving from NY to MA and don't really feel like dealing with the gun laws so will stay as is. 1000 rounds of Wolf and headed to my mailbox. Looking forward to getting to the range.