Gun Talk

[Catbox]

I fired a 9mm Hi-Point carbine.

Can somebody more familiar talk about the Hi-Points? When I first encountered them at a gun show I thought they were almost scary for their poor quality (not making fun of you Masshole, BTW) but I've definitely noticed they have a steady stream of defenders on the internet. Anyone know more about them? Does the cheap price tag mean poor quality?

[Learjetter]

Hi-points are fugly. I don't buy, or shoot, or recommend fugly weps. Or trucks, or bows, or anything, for that matter. Sorry I couldn't be more help with fugly hi-points.

[Catbox]

Hi-points are fugly.

Yeah always been my impression as well, not just ugly but unsafe looking. Some people seem to love them, but I don't get it. They're warranty is crazy...no questions asked return or replace (no matter how many drive bys or school shootings it was used in).

[M2]

Guns are like trucks, you never know what appeals to some folks. Still, it's best to adopt a "live and let live" attitude about them. People tend to be pretty sensitive about their firearms. In a local forum there's a guy who claims to have some rare Yugo SKS rifle that he claims was built for civilian use, and I just don't see what's so rare about it. He's getting all defensive because I stated it looks like every other Yugo 59/66 I've owned or seen. To be honest, it's not even worth arguing about...

I put Hi-Points in the same category as Kel-Tecs, there's nothing there that appeals to me but if other folks are happy with 'em, than God bless 'em...

[Masshole]

Can somebody more familiar talk about the Hi-Points? When I first encountered them at a gun show I thought they were almost scary for their poor quality (not making fun of you Masshole, BTW) but I've definitely noticed they have a steady stream of defenders on the internet. Anyone know more about them? Does the cheap price tag mean poor quality?

Having never fired another rifle I have nothing to compare it to, but I read some reviews about the HP carbines and they seem well liked. There is a lot of dissatisfaction with the pistols which probably gives Hi-Point a bad name. The only people that trash talk the carbines are gun snobs used to firing something four times the price. They are the least expensive carbine we can rely on to shoot, so it seems perfect for us broke college students. Obviously you can afford something better and should probably overlook them. As far as safety issues, I have read more about Glocks exploding than I have a HP carbine having catastrophic failure.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Masshole

[Catbox]

Having never fired another rifle I have nothing to compare it to, but I read some reviews about the HP carbines and they seem well liked. There is a lot of dissatisfaction with the pistols which probably gives Hi-Point a bad name. The only people that trash talk the carbines are gun snobs used to firing something four times the price. They are the least expensive carbine we can rely on to shoot, so it seems perfect for us broke college students. Obviously you can afford something better and should probably overlook them. As far as safety issues, I have read more about Glocks exploding than I have a HP carbine having catastrophic failure.

I'm pretty sure Hi-point first got thier bad name for being used in the Columbine shootings. The press picked up the connection between kids shooting and an inexpensive "assault rifle" and ran with it. I'm definitely a gun snob, but like M2 said if someone likes these weapons its up to them. I have to admit the appearance of a cheap weapon turns me off but that's just me.

[Masshole]

I'm pretty sure Hi-point first got thier bad name for being used in the Columbine shootings. The press picked up the connection between kids shooting and an inexpensive "assault rifle" and ran with it. I'm definitely a gun snob, but like M2 said if someone likes these weapons its up to them. I have to admit the appearance of a cheap weapon turns me off but that's just me.

I was talking about their name in regards to quality. I do not buy into the media hysteria behind it. I thought you were joking about their appearance because I did not think it mattered. It is a gun, not an accessory.

[Learjetter]

To us gun snobs, it's not just an accessory, it can be a work of art (form and function). To each his own, I suppose.

[Catbox]

I was talking about their name in regards to quality. I do not buy into the media hysteria behind it. I thought you were joking about their appearance because I did not think it mattered. It is a gun, not an accessory.

Here, here to learjetter. My dad and I used to make kit muzzle loaders so when you "build" a gun start to finish you get a great appreciation for the quality and how small things like a properly sanded and stained stock can have a big impact on the finished accuracy of your gun. I'm a huge fan of wood and steel, the hipoints are plastics and pot metal.

But again I've never shot one so I could be missing out. Have fun on the range...since you are physicist are you running the equations through your had as you pull the trigger?

[Masshole]

Here, here to learjetter. My dad and I used to make kit muzzle loaders so when you "build" a gun start to finish you get a great appreciation for the quality and how small things like a properly sanded and stained stock can have a big impact on the finished accuracy of your gun. I'm a huge fan of wood and steel, the hipoints are plastics and pot metal.

But again I've never shot one so I could be missing out. Have fun on the range...since you are physicist are you running the equations through your had as you pull the trigger?

I am more worried about making sure I am doing everything right so that something does not go wrong, or so the gun does not explode and load my face with shrapnel (sts?). Besides, I have only just started my second year as a student. We are more into the paradoxical "It can only be absolute" bullshit surrounding classical and quantum concepts of the fundamental nature of size. Classical mechanics will sufficiently explain why the bullet moves the way it does and you do not have to pour much thought into that. Where you get into trouble thinking too much about something is when you begin to wonder about the quantum phenomenon. At that point you may have just blown your finger off.

[M2]

To me defensive firearms are like brakes or tires on your car...it's not something you want to save a few bucks on!

That said, there are better options out there. I don't think a Hi-Point carbine is not the optimal choice for home/self defense. Personally, I think a shotgun is better, I prefer a pistol-grip Mossberg Persuader loaded with 3" 00-buckshot Magnum shells. Unfortunately, they're not the easiest thing to store, so I keep a pistol bedside just in case I can't get to my shotgun quickly. My recommendation for a pistol would be something from the Springfield XD/XDm line. As many of you know, I like the .45 ACP but a 9mm works as well. There is no caliber better than another, they just have advantages/disadvantages and it ends up being a personal preference. I would steer clear of oddball calibers like .45 GAP or 10mm simply because good defensive ammo is tough to find and expensive.

The best thing would be to buddy up with someone who would be willing to take you to the range and let you shoot a couple of their pistols. Be aware that shotguns, especially 12 gauge or bigger, are not gentle weapons but they do get the job done, and done well!

Cheers! M2

[HeloDude]

There is no caliber better than another, they just have advantages/disadvantages and it ends up being a personal preference.

Got it...the .22 is not any better than a .40 or .45 . Just giving you a hard time man...I know what you meant. But seriously, putting aside the fact the any gun is better than no gun at all, there are definitely some better calibers out there than others.

100% agree on the shotgun--my primary home defense weapon. I have pistols all throughout the house, but my first inclination will always be to get my shotgun.

[JarheadBoom]

I don't think a Hi-Point carbine is not the optimal choice for home/self defense.

Sooo.... what are you saying here?

[Timbonez]

Hi Point is a terrible choice. Self defense, plinking, throwing it at someone... it is a low quality firearm. If you really think that a rifle/carbine 4x more expensive than a Hi Point Carbine is just a waste of money, then you obviously haven't done your research. In general, you get what you pay for when buying a firearm. I suggest you save your money for a Glock or M&P, which are only a few hundred dollars more. If you can't wait that long, maybe you should look into prostitution as another source of income. Even that's a better choice than buying a Hi Point.

ETA: If you don't want a Glock or M&P, fine. There are plenty of other fine choices out there that will serve you better than any Hi Point pistol or Carbine.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Timbonez

[Masshole]

Hi Point is a terrible choice. Self defense, plinking, throwing it at someone... it is a low quality firearm. If you really think that a rifle/carbine 4x more expensive than a Hi Point Carbine is just a waste of money, then you obviously haven't done your research. In general, you get what you pay for when buying a firearm. I suggest you save your money for a Glock or M&P, which are only a few hundred dollars more. If you can't wait that long, maybe you should look into prostitution as another source of income. Even that's a better choice than buying a Hi Point.

ETA: If you don't want a Glock or M&P, fine. There are plenty of other fine choices out there that will serve you better than any Hi Point pistol or Carbine.

I am not going to buy a Hi-Point, it is just something we shot at the range. I was defending it because I do not think it is bad for what it is. To be fair, I have read a lot about Glocks exploding on people and there are a few videos of HPs surviving some extreme torture tests. I would not want a Glock any more than I would want a Hi-Point gun from what I have read so far.

I have awhile before I can buy a gun or until I can save enough to have one of my parents buy the gun. I am still testing the field and I am definitely not going to go cheap. I do not want to pay for a name either- it has to be worth it.

[Timbonez]

You hearing about Glocks exploding is a gross exaggeration. Yes, some have exploded, but this has been on their .40 S&W versions where the chamber doesn't provide the same amount of case head support as other pistols do. The gas pressure has to go somewhere and in those instances the path of least resistance was the brass case exploding. Considering how many Glock are in use today by civilians, police forces, and militaries, I would argue that it was more isolated rather than an epidemic. No manufacturer is going to have a perfect record, so you can stop looking for one. S&W has had problems with mechanical accuracy and dead triggers on their M&P pistols. SIG, as of late, has focused more on finishes rather than QC. Colt had problems with their 1911 frames not being straight in the dust cover. These companies have always been their to correct their issues and actually provide a quality product.

Comparing Glock to Hi Point is misguided at best. One company uses hardened steel for its metal parts the other uses pot metal (zamak 3) for its parts. Do you think that is what a quality firearm should have? Do you think you can even compare a company that uses pot metal with companies that make firearms for serious/duty use? I hope you find a quality firearm, but it appears that you are looking in the wrong places for advice and research. Like I said before you get what you pay for, so what companies do you think you are going to be paying for a name over quality? Not Glock, not S&W, not HK (although pricey nonetheless), not Walther, not Beretta. You need to get over the stigma that you are paying for a name because it's more expensive. That money you're paying for goes to high quality materials, quality control, and customer service.

Since you mentioned Hi Point torture tests:

A weapon used by thugs because it's so cheap

It's definitely a good thing that you are shooting these guns before you buy one, but it sounds like someone is giving you bad advice.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Timbonez

[M2]

There are inexpensive guns and there are cheap guns. I put Taurus in the former (and I own four of 'em), and companies such as Hi-Point and Kel-Tec in the latter . Sure, I also have a few of the latter (such as my TEC-9) but those are more curios and novelties than anything else. I sure as hell wouldn't stake my life on any of them.

If money is an issue, do your research and find a dependable but reasonably priced pistol such as the Taurus PT709 Slim. It is easy to find one for about $350 or less that is an accurate and reliable firearm which is also easy to conceal carry if you are allowed to do so.

I understand not everyone has a large disposable income to spend on guns, but that still doesn't mean you have to buy crap. Do your homework, look around and there are some great firearms that can be had at decent prices.

Cheers! M2

[brickhistory]

There are inexpensive guns and there are cheap guns.

2

I put pre-1990s or post-2004 Charter Arms snubbies and the Bersa line of pistols in the former category. I use/carry/possess both and trust them to work every time. They are not going to last 10,000 rounds, but they do the job without breaking the bank.

[Breckey]

Gun safe or gun cabinet? I found a really nice cabinet at an antique store for a great price. Only have 10ish guns, will increase the number in the next couple years but not by M2's standards.

[M2]

Gun safe or gun cabinet? I found a really nice cabinet at an antique store for a great price. Only have 10ish guns, will increase the number in the next couple years but not by M2's standards.

A safe provides much more security, not only from theft but if you get a decent one, from fire as well.

I was just looking at an 80-gun safe this weekend. Time to upgrade!

Cheers! M2

[Learjetter]

I have both. A cabinet for "display" and a safe for "security". Each used as needed. Get a slightly bigger safe than you think you need--it always comes in handy for storing other valuables when on leave, etc. But if you're PCS ing routinely, you might want to avoid the 2000+ lb monster safes--moving companies can balk at moving them, and they are NOT fun to DITY.

[brickhistory]

Not averse to a safe by any means. The security and fire prevention as noted is a bonus. If you are still in the moving every 3-4 years or have a spousal unit who likes to shake things up, that mass is not fun however.

That said, I am going for a really nice cabinet. As this is yet another skill I lack, I am once again exercising my check writing muscle and have forked a fair amount for one being built as I type. I'm hoping I get it in late October/early November.

If I have a fire, then I lose them granted. But that's what insurance is for.

If I get burgled, same thing. I'd lose the sentimental value of Dad's M1 and .45, but the rest is replacable.

I want the whole manly thing of it beside my liqour cabinet that matches. Technique only.

Guns and bourbon.

I love my country.

[M2]

I haven't read through all of it, but this allegedly is pretty accurate...

1911 Buyers Guide

Cheers! M2

[Nineline]

I was doing some gun browsing and ran across this GSG on Bud's: https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/955/products_id/63347

It seems like a good price from what little I know of 'em. Is this one of those traps that need more money thrown at it to make it perform as intended, or is it good to go right out of the box? If you do have one, are you happy with it?

-9-

[HeloDude]

I was doing some gun browsing and ran across this GSG on Bud's: https://www.budsgunsh...oducts_id/63347

It seems like a good price from what little I know of 'em. Is this one of those traps that need more money thrown at it to make it perform as intended, or is it good to go right out of the box? If you do have one, are you happy with it?

-9-

I don't have this one, but like some others on here, I have a S&W MP-22 and truly enjoy it. You can get the basic model for $360 when Bud's has them available on their Law Enforcement section. I highly recommend it.