Fear of flying?

[Guest ggg308]

In several threads I've noticed pilots mentioning a "fear of flying" and "controlling the fear". Could you guys elaborate on what you mean by that? Is it fear of the ability to control the jet at it's limits, fear of the enemy, both? Just curious, thanks.

[HerkDerka]

Mission hazards. (Enemy action, aircraft emergencies, t-storms, etc.)

HD

[Guest Hydro130]

"Fear of flying". I suppose the posts you are talking about here have to do with the "I did IFS or I am a little bit into UPT or I am actually currently operational and I have discovered that I don't much care for this flying stuff, what do I do?". Those are people who have found that flying creates too much apprehension and stress in their life, for whatever personal reason or circumstance. They need to find a different occupation. If flying makes you unduly apprehensive everytime you do it, it's not the career for you.

"Controlling the fear" gets at stress management. Military flying is an inherently hazardous occupation. Whether it's a checkride you have, a busy training sortie, or a combat mission, there will be stress (sometimes a lot of it) - I wouldn't blanketly call it "fear", but too each their own... A moderate amount of stress is a good thing, it's what keeps us sharp and prepared. Everybody has (and needs) stressors - keeping them in check is the challenge; folks who do that well will excel. Folks who don't will hook checkrides, fail training, and generally be ineffective.

Cheers, Hydro

[M2]

I have a fear of heights, but that didn't stop me from stepping out of a helicopter at 1800'...seven times!

Fear is a normal emotion, be it spiders, flying or Rosie O'Donnell; God gave us the ability to identify things that may be life-threatening.

The trick is not to let your fears overcome you, you have to control them; but fear itself is helpful for keeping everything in check.

Or, in other words, what Hydro said!

Cheers! M2

[Guest ShineR]

2 on what M2 said.

I think its also important to distinguish between true fear (eg fear of death), fear of fvcking up and being embarrassed all of the time (b/c you suck), and apprehension of something that is different than what you are used to.

If it is true fear, you wouldnt even be able to get into the airplane, and if you did, barely function. I know a guy who that happened to at UPT, its much like Ricky Bobby in Talladega Nights where he thinks hes on fire and crippled. If you had this problem you would be long gone into Space and Missiles.

If its fear of messing up or doing something stupid or crashing because of something youve done or the equipment youre using, then you have a confidence problem. You need to double check what youre doing and grow a pair or get out, because its not just yourself you might kill if you screw up. And dont worry about ridicule, it come with the job.

If its just you getting kind of tense before each flight or during certain parts of the flight, doing particular maneuvers, etc, then I would say that is normal as a beginner and most people are dealing with the same thing. You just need to go out, fly your ass off, and have fun while learning.

Anyways, lots of factors can contribute to fear, its different for everyone. Most people grow out of it or quit. Why do something youre scared of?

[Guest ggg308]

Thanks guys. I can understand how it can happen in IFS and UPT (I even see it here at JSUNT), I was wondering more about the guys that are already winged and flying operationally. I assume it's very uncommon, but it's mentioned here and there in some posts (I tried to find some examples but they are escaping me at the moment). I don't think someone would make it through UPT with a confidence problem, so what would cause them to develop one once they've already gone through all the training?

[Guest Rainman A-10]

If it is true fear, you wouldnt even be able to get into the airplane, and if you did, barely function.

Not exactly.

True fear will be present in true combat flying when the wx sucks, it's dark, shit is flying both ways, a single switch error or missed radio call will get the wrong people killed and put you in jail (if you live) and/or all of the above.

Function or die.

[Guest ShineR]

Rainman,

True, though I meant it as an attitude toward flying in general that would prevent you from getting into the cockpit again, like after a near-fatal flying incident.

ggg,

For old timers, I guess fear would develop just in the instance Rainman just described, in combat or scary as sh1t scenarios that no one would like to be in.

[pawnman]

Seems like that would be a fear of the total situation, not necessarily flying. Sort of like you'd be scared if you saw a mack truck merging into your lane on the highway, but that doesn't make you fear driving. Not that having a mack truck merge into your lane is in the same league as flying in the goo in combat, but you catch the drift.

[HerkDerka]

I think this old aphorism is relevant:

"A pilot may earn his entire year's pay in one minute...during which he would gladly give it up to be somewhere else."

The second part is for laughs, but the first part is very true. Military flying is not flying around the flag pole on clear blue days. Military flying is dodging wx at night on nogs through high terrain with a +30 temp dev to get to an objective area while people are purposely trying to kill you. Military flying is the most inherently dangerous flying we know. There WILL be situations, where your decision-making ability and control will be the determining factor is a successful mission and safe flight.

You have to be able to perform when it's your call. That's what Rainman is getting at.

HD

[Guest Rainman A-10]

flying in the goo in combat

I'm not talking about flying in the goo at >25K.

I'm talking about flying through the goo to rejoin with the tanker in the wx at night, refueling on the goggles, letting yourself down below a 2K ceiling, 1nm vis, people shooting at you and you leading your flight and putting ordnance down inside 500m from friendlies on non-illuminated targets, landing at an FOL for mor gas/ordnance that is nothing more than a strip of highway in the desert and then going back to the target. The prospect of trying to do something like that is too frightening for most people to even attempt it. However, that's the mission and it needs to get done.

Those are things that you don't train for in peacetime because of training rules. Those are the types of things most people wouldn't try to do because it is too frightening and they can hide behind the skirt of "I tried to get in there but the wx was too shitty" or "there was a Roland 1 nm from the target and I couldn't operate below a 2K deck and no one will question it because they don't want that set as the new standard. People can only get past that fear if they have thought about it beforehand and they have a plan when the situation arises.

Poise under pressure keeps you from taking a stupid penalty, jumping offsides on the one yard line with 4 seconds left on the clock and wasting SA on dealing with fear so you have enough left over to get the mission done and survive.

[Steve Davies]

...I was wondering more about the guys that are already winged and flying operationally. I assume it's very uncommon...

It is uncommon, but it does happen.

I recently heard of an Eagle guy who used to get out of the jet as white a sheet. Flying the Eagle in BFM just scared the crap out of him (and IFF and the B-Course had not picked that up). In the end he asked for, and was granted, a transfer to heavies.

[busdriver]

The scariest moments of my flying career thus far have had nothing to do with getting shot at, and everything to do with flying in shitty visibility and limited power situations in Afghanistan. I know a bit about some of Rainman's experience in Iraq and from what I've been told, the vis was just as shitty plus they were getting shot at by some nasty stuff. I still think crappy vis and low illum is scarier than the enemy. I guess the difference from my perspective is that when the WX is ass, you have plenty of time to think about it. When you get shot at, you just react and in the end the engagement only gets scary when you have time to look back on it and think(assuming you live). Rainman, does this jive with your experience?

[pawnman]

I'm not talking about flying in the goo at >25K.

I'm talking about flying through the goo to rejoin with the tanker in the wx at night, refueling on the goggles, letting yourself down below a 2K ceiling, 1nm vis, people shooting at you and you leading your flight and putting ordnance down inside 500m from friendlies on non-illuminated targets, landing at an FOL for mor gas/ordnance that is nothing more than a strip of highway in the desert and then going back to the target. The prospect of trying to do something like that is too frightening for most people to even attempt it. However, that's the mission and it needs to get done.

Those are things that you don't train for in peacetime because of training rules. Those are the types of things most people wouldn't try to do because it is too frightening and they can hide behind the skirt of "I tried to get in there but the wx was too shitty" or "there was a Roland 1 nm from the target and I couldn't operate below a 2K deck and no one will question it because they don't want that set as the new standard. People can only get past that fear if they have thought about it beforehand and they have a plan when the situation arises.

Poise under pressure keeps you from taking a stupid penalty, jumping offsides on the one yard line with 4 seconds left on the clock and wasting SA on dealing with fear so you have enough left over to get the mission done and survive.

And that's the point I was trying to make, although you did it much more eloquently. There's a difference between the fear that comes with that situation, and an actual fear of flying straight and level when its CAVU.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Rainman, does this jive with your experience?

I can't tell you how many times I have heard guys say "The only time I felt like I wasn't going to die tonight was when I was rolling in or when I was threat reacting. I would rather get shot at from T/O to landing in good wx than fly another sortie in that shit."

That is a bit of overstatement. Everyone sucks up seat cushion when they know they are being targeted. The biggest difference is that you are under control. Nothing feels better than threat reacting and then killing the guy that just shot at you and/or your wingmen. You have no control over the wx. I know I would personally rather be shot at than have to land 100/1 on a blacked out landing surface. However, if you are confident that you can do a self set-up GPS approach you can just fly the "procedure" and know that you'll see the box and one at 100/1 (and not before) so you can just relax instead of panic. Fly, don't panic.

You gotta do what you gotta do.

My point is about poise under pressure that comes from being prepared, mentally, to do the things you can't practice in peacetime but know will work.