Guest PilotWannaBe Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Okay...I know I am not the only one to gripe about this, but here it goes I am sick and tired of you FAIP tools and active duty IPs treating UPT students as inferiors throughout training! Not only am I an officer, but I have earned my right to be here just as you did...what gives? And its not only the IPs that do it, but also many of the enlisted people around the base. I have had countless two stripers completely blow off saluting me just because they don't see wings on my chest. Another example...the MPF "customer service" representatives have been overheard saying "why are you calling him sir? isnt he just a student?" Dont treat us as inferior, treat us as your peers. Your job is to train us as pilots, not to be our drill instructors throughout an already stressful year of our lives. You are no better, just more experienced! Rant switch...off Edited May 31, 2007 by PilotWannaBe
UPT-hopeful Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) You obviously have uber-high SA... Can't imagine why you'd be considered inferior and getting yelled at. Man up like the rest of us and press, dude. Thousands have done it before you. Suggest you keep your personal thoughts of IPs to yourself, though. Edited May 31, 2007 by UPT-hopeful
Toasty Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 PilotWannaBe, you're a student, and being put through the crapper is a part of training. Now, if someone outright doesn't salute or something similar, you should totally pimp them on it and remind them that you ARE an officer. But you should expect alot of people to treat you like a lesser life form for a while. But don't be a dick and act like since you are a student pilot, you deserve recognition and respect. Pay those dues, man.
Vetter Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Huh? All I hear is "Wheh wheh wheh, my pu$$y hurts." Click here for solution. Edited May 31, 2007 by Vetter
brabus Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Troll. And if you're not by the off chance, holy shit, you gotta be the biggest pvssy ever. Go work in finance and demand the respect you "deserve."
WeatherManC130 Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 PilotWannaBe, you're a student, and being put through the crapper is a part of training. Now, if someone outright doesn't salute or something similar, you should totally pimp them on it and remind them that you ARE an officer. But you should expect alot of people to treat you like a lesser life form for a while. But don't be a dick and act like since you are a student pilot, you deserve recognition and respect. Pay those dues, man. Totally agree!!! If an Airmen doesn''t salute you pull him aside and tell them, but as far as getting tossed around in UPT, grow some Bawls! WxMan
Magnum Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 You are inferior, that's why you're in training. If you were a peer you would be sitting on the other side of the desk with wings on your chest. Sack it up because you're gonna be low man on the totem-pole for a while.
Guest PilotWannaBe Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Totally agree!!! If an Airmen doesn''t salute you pull him aside and tell them, but as far as getting tossed around in UPT, grow some Bawls! WxMan Does no one else feel my pain on this one...or is the practice of looking down on an officer just "accepted"? Oh, and thanks for the constructive comment WxMan...im sure you are one of the people i am talking about
jcollins Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 One of the things you will learn as an Lt is people will push the line, to see how much you will give. It happens in every career field, not just pilot trainees. As a full up prior-enlisted officer I have been blown off by airmen. I'm not a dick about it but I corrected them. When I was an airmen I never blew off officers, why should they? By the same token you can't go around demanding respect, especially if you are an Lt brand-new to the military. Work it out.
ChkHandleDn Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) Does no one else feel my pain on this one...or is the practice of looking down on an officer just "accepted"? Oh, and thanks for the constructive comment WxMan...im sure you are one of the people i am talking about By the sounds of it, I'm assuming you just let the Airmen stroll on by while thinking to yourself, "man I should've corrected them," thus further contributing to the problem. As far as UPT is concerned, I'm sure we have it much easier than those that came before. Although being treated like a child sucks, just know everyone else is too. It could be worse. You could be in acquisitions. Didn't you also post this? Sounds like you have some soul searching to do. Edited June 1, 2007 by lagguer
TheGreatWaldo Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Dude!........I mean Sir Quit quibbling and suck it up. You are the epitome of the word SNAP. Like it was said earlier, if someone doesn't salute , pull them aside and correct them. Just loosen up and get a clue that no one cares that you're butt hurt about this topic. My advice would be to let this die before you make some enemies. P.s. If you get mad about the situation you're in...come over to the Navy side of the house and see how a group of 20 airmen can walk by staring you in the face and not a single one pop a salute.
jcj Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 Okay...I know I am not the only one to gripe about this, but here it goes I am sick and tired of you FAIP tools and active duty IPs treating UPT students as inferiors throughout training! Not only am I an officer, but I have earned my right to be here just as you did...what gives? And its not only the IPs that do it, but also many of the enlisted people around the base. I have had countless two stripers completely blow off saluting me just because they don't see wings on my chest. Another example...the MPF "customer service" representatives have been overheard saying "why are you calling him sir? isnt he just a student?" Dont treat us as inferior, treat us as your peers. Your job is to train us as pilots, not to be our drill instructors throughout an already stressful year of our lives. You are no better, just more experienced! Rant switch...off I guess I was expecting to see the date of this message to be April 1st
Guest Turbo Posted May 31, 2007 Posted May 31, 2007 The way I see it, being for a couple years is a very small price to pay for being granted the PRIVLEGE of having the worlds best job. At the end of T-6's, we were treated very well and had more or less earned the respect of our IP's...only to be kicked in the balls again at the beginning of T-38's (as anticipated). Once I earn my wings in a couple months, I'm sure I will have earned the respect of my T-38 IP's...but I'll be ready for more ball-kicking at IFF. Once that's done, more at RTU, and more at my squadron. Regardless, I love flying...even at UPT, and I will continue to love flying, no matter where I fall on the "totem pole." Bottom line, if you aren't willing to pay the price to do the cool sht we do, you probably A) didnt work hard enough to get here, or B) dont enjoy this job enough to be doing it.
WeatherManC130 Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Does no one else feel my pain on this one...or is the practice of looking down on an officer just "accepted"? Oh, and thanks for the constructive comment WxMan...im sure you are one of the people i am talking about My comment was not meant to be disrespectful to you, but I was only trying to say that if an Airman blows you off, pull them aside and correct them. I didn't mean go ape sh!t on them. Walking by without saying anything tells them that you don't care. I may be a new Lt, but I am not a jerk to the people I am supposed to be leading. WxMan
duece123 Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Dude, I am on your side. UPT blows nuts big time, I cant wait to be done. But…………..Next time you get a few mins, call a bud from back home and listen to him when he bitches about how he hates his life because he sits a desk all day everyday and answers the phone or some sh1t like that. You will realize that getting paid to fly a military AC is a sweet gig, hazing or not. Also, I can’t count how many people would kill to trade places with you. The USAF has been doing the hazing BS for 70 + years so it is not going to stop anytime soon. Nut up and take everything with a grain of salt. UPT is a big mind $%&^ anyways.
hindsight2020 Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 It's not that people don't understand where you're coming from, they do, as we all have to go through the gayness. UPT is filled with gayness, and it's a haze, period dot. Some people look at everything with a remarkable sense of stoicism, that's not a virtue as some assume, that's just their perrogative. That said, UPT has also been around for a long time and things will not change, so the best thing you can do is eat the sh$t sandwich for a year like the rest of us and pull chocks out of here as soon as one possibly can. Venting in this forum as you can see will not win you much sympathy. As it pertains to the instructors, they come (sts) in all variances. Some are great teachers, easy to fly with and supportive. Others are d$cks and have personal agendas that make one's life miserable. Again, it's all a day by day affair at UPT. The key is to hold to the finish line, then you're somewhat home free. The gayness should diminish as you go through the pipeline, some have to endure extra a$$pain (IFF and certain RTUs continue to carry UPT-like antics) but in the end it should diminish. There is a practicality to it as some posters above suggested rather callously; quite fittingly, it's the concept of a thick skin. If you have one, great, if not, it is advantageous to develop one. Again, I make a distinction between having a thick skin and being stoic, but a thick skin will be an assest to you as you move to the operational force, and it that sense DO take the previous posters' advice to heart. It's easier for me as a Reservist though, I don't have to look forward to a continuation of the gayness once I peace out of here with my middle finger out the window into the sunset, but a thick skin definitively aids in enduring the circus. As to the officership stuff, yeah I wouldn't let the airman-type slack off on common courtesies, but as an Lt I know that there are plenty of more senior NCO types that have been in the branch for much longer, and in spite of my rank I make sure and act with respect and recognition of their seniority, it's just common sense. I wouldn't get wrapped around the axle about that one. Again, as a reservist, active-duty-isms roll off my back like water on a duck, but you get the jist of my point. Perception is reality at UPT. Make sure you keep these feelings as private as possible (you see the reaction you get when you go public with this), play the part, take the weekends to decompress from the gayness, and hold on 'til the finish. Wings are a great accomplishment once you get there, in spite of the training environment. Good luck.
Guest meatwad Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 OK maybe this is some brutal honety, but someone has to say it. As a graduate of UPT I can look back and say that in Pilot training that you are not equal, you are nowhere near having the SA and piloting skills to being equal to your instructors. FAIPs or AD instructors have a really difficult job of trying to turn you into a no shit real pilot in just around a year (in hindsight it is a much more difficult job than you may think). Just becuase they use their precious amount of time to tell you how you suck and what you can improve on rather than how awesome you are because you are a LT that made it to pilot training, it doesn't mean they are being disrespectful. It is all aimed in trying to make you an awesome military pilot in extremley limited time. Not long after UPT you WILL be asked to do some really important stuff with limited experiece that affects the lives of other people, and there isn't going to be someone in the other seat or right behind you to back you up when you make the wrong decision like there is in UPT. Someday you will be in the real world and will wish for your ACs to give you the real deal debrief on what you can do to improve (sometimes you will get it and other times you will get the classic debrief of "I got nothing for you, do you have anything for me"). Never ever look down upon what your IP has to say. Believe it or not they may just know a little more than you, hard to believe, but it is true. As a student or Co (or AC or IP), if you ever think that you know everything, you are wrong. As for other troops not saluting you or whatever; you are an officer in the Air Force. Do your job if you see something wrong, don't complain about it on a semi-anonymous forum, correct it on the spot. That is what you get paid for.
Mambo Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Okay...I know I am not the only one to gripe about this, but here it goes I am sick and tired of you FAIP tools and active duty IPs treating UPT students as inferiors throughout training! Dont treat us as inferior, treat us as your peers. Damn straight...I may only be enlisted but those damn TI's in basic training treated me the same way! How dare they treat me as an inferior recruit...I worked my ass off to get down to Lackland for 6 weeks. All that yelling and putting that brim of the hat in my face!! That's just demeaning to me as a person. And all those SGT's and A1C's walking around the base yelling at me to march right...just cuz they got a year or two in more than I did...who do they think they are??? Just the Man trying to keep me down! Oh...and if you're not correcting Amn Snuffy on the spot for not saluting or disrespectful behavior, you are in the wrong.
Login Name Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Not only am I an officer.... Oh, and thanks for the constructive comment WxMan...im sure you are one of the people i am talking about pretty sure they were all "constructive comments" towards you. who gives a shit if the base wx guy gives it to you. also, what people are you talking about? as far as being an officer...yes, you are one. congrats. you graduated college and wear some bars. you know what the difference b/w a 2Lt and an Amn is? the Amn has been promoted once already. you're going to get blown off as a 2lt...it happens...it happens as a 1lt too. it'll probably happen when you're an fgo too. the only thing you can do about it is correct the person when they do. try saluting the Airmen and say hi when they walk by you and don't salute you. i bet they'll salute and say "uuhhh, sorry sir" or some bs. this way you can get your salute and not be a jackass by jumping their bones about it. hope this helps.
Stiffler Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 As a full up prior-enlisted officer I have been blown off by airmen. I'm not a dick about it but I corrected them. When I was an airmen I never blew off officers, why should they? Work it out. Just wanted to pull this statement out and allow others to read it again if they missed it. And I will drop a gentlemanly "so to speak."
F16Deuce Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) Dude, you're a fookin' SNAP, quit being a douche. Suck it up and get through it...or SIE, your choice. Either way, you won't get any sympathy from me, or probably anyone else here. You must realize that ball-stomping will be standard. Edited June 1, 2007 by Bull
Guest Hydro130 Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Sack up or get off the train. You are not special. Hydro
Guest Safe&Clear Posted June 1, 2007 Posted June 1, 2007 Any IPs on this forum who can figure out who this kid is and/or which base he's at? He'd better not show up in my ready-room for a brief... That is all. S&C
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