Being treated poorly as a student in UPT

[Toro]

PilotWannaBe, you're right -- I think your IPs should be counseled on this matter. Why don't you PM me with your real name, base, and class number and I'll get in touch with some of your IPs. I'll make sure they are all aware of your plight as a UPT student and ask them to consider your feelings and have them take it easy on you.

Choke yourself, SIE immediately, and go sign up for finance OIC.

[Bergman]

Okay...I know I am not the only one to gripe about this, but here it goes

I am sick and tired of you FAIP tools and active duty IPs treating UPT students as inferiors throughout training! Not only am I an officer, but I have earned my right to be here just as you did...what gives?

You had to have known what response you'd get around here when you lead off with that sentence! Making blanket generalizations about FAIPs and folks in general isn't really a great idea. I agree that some IPs "just don't get it", but you'll find people with a small picture in any career field, at any base.

And its not only the IPs that do it, but also many of the enlisted people around the base. I have had countless two stripers completely blow off saluting me just because they don't see wings on my chest. Another example...the MPF "customer service" representatives have been overheard saying "why are you calling him sir? isnt he just a student?"

It sounds like this is a friend of a friend heard from a friend that some A1C said such-and-such. If you are the person that actually overheard this, a simple "Excuse me...I may be a student, but I am still and officer" type comment would have been sufficient.

Dont treat us as inferior, treat us as your peers.

Sorry, but here is where you lose me. You are not my peer. Once you get your wings then, in some sense, we will be peers.

Your job is to train us as pilots, not to be our drill instructors throughout an already stressful year of our lives.

Adding stress to your life IS part of their job! If you can't handle stress in the flight room at groundspeed zero, how will you ever handle it in an airplane that is on fire??

You are no better, just more experienced!

In the pilot world, typically, experieced=better. Not always true, but the 80% rule certainly applies. Especially for student pilots vs. IPs. You may not think so, but you have NO skill compared to most of the guys who are teaching you. Even the FAIPs.

[Guest Ghost63]

you know what the difference b/w a 2Lt and an Amn is? the Amn has been promoted once already. you're going to get blown off as a 2lt...it happens...it happens as a 1lt too. it'll probably happen when you're an fgo too.

Dude, people like you are a cancer. Show me a Chief who talks down to a 2lt. Give up? It won't happen. The few that make it to Chief, as a rule, are nothing but professionals and will teach a smart young officer everything they know - but understand that it IS the military and will saulte smartly and call him sir. I address a Chief as Chief, an E-8 as Senior, and E-7 as Master Sergeant and show the respect they deserve. But if you're the Airman who is blowing off (sts) Lt's, then hope it isn't me one day. I will crush your nuts. And to tell you the truth, this entire thread is a prime example why the other services mock us constantly. We have an unnervingly high number of folks that match *everything* they say. For f*ck's sake, we have 19 year old traffic cops walking around with a band on their arm that says "SF." (Not that they have any idea of who SF is or what they do.)

As far as the UPT thing goes, I've been quite disappointed honestly. What I've actually been taught here (phase III) could have been done in about 3 months. Then add three months for gradebook/TIMS/formal brief/stand up/shotgun/no actual EP training horse dung and there you have six months of UPT. I think the post originator went a little overboard, and dude - yeah, you come across (sts) as a whiner. I never expected to be treated as an equal while being a student. It's the nature of of a military formal training course. I did not, however, expect to be treated like a child and truly wonder where flight instruction fell on the priority list. That's the same critique I offered the DO in a sit-down chat. He told me to drink the kool-aid and press, so I said yes sir and did. Getting yelled at is fine. The attention to detail required at IFF is great, and I have had my b*lls stepped on in a debrief and will continue to do so over the years when I screw up. RTU will be a bitch, fine. I just hope that it's all due to training and not AETC faggotry.

Adding stress to your life IS part of their job! If you can't handle stress in the flight room at groundspeed zero, how will you ever handle it in an airplane that is on fire??

Bergman, I have to disagree with this one. But it is a good question, because the answer is - who knows? Standing at a table while "time is frozen" is ridiculous. I've actually had to bite my tongue to keep from laughing out loud listening to this in the flight room. Stress is fine, but what does any of this have to do with an emergency in an aircraft?

In the pilot world, typically, experieced=better. Not always true, but the 80% rule certainly applies. Especially for student pilots vs. IPs. You may not think so, but you have NO skill compared to most of the guys who are teaching you. Even the FAIPs.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. Even about the FAIP's. (With the exception of them giving checkrides. Can you imagine stan-eval in your squadron full of Lt's?)

Edited June 1, 2007 by Ghost63

[Login Name]

Dude, people like you are a cancer. Show me a Chief who talks down to a 2lt. Give up? It won't happen. The few that make it to Chief, as a rule, are nothing but professionals and will teach a smart young officer everything they know - but understand that it IS the military and will saulte smartly and call him sir. I address a Chief as Chief, an E-8 as Senior, and E-7 as Master Sergeant and show the respect they deserve. But if you're the Airman who is blowing off (sts) Lt's, then hope it isn't me one day. I will crush your nuts. And to tell you the truth, this entire thread is a prime example why the other services mock us constantly. We have an unnervingly high number of folks that match *everything* they say. For f*ck's sake, we have 19 year old traffic cops walking around with a band on their arm that says "SF." (Not that they have any idea of who SF is or what they do.)

dude, i'm an o, not an e. i've seen plenty of chiefs talk down to a 2lt. i've seen it happen to captains. sit in on a meeting at an amxs, mxs, or muns sometime when you're done w/upt and it'll happen sooner or later. you're right, the good ones will teach you everything you need to know. the good ones will also close the door on you sometime and put you in your place.

also...you can tell a lot by what that snco thinks of you if he addresses you as Lt or Lieutenant.

[capt4fans]

Okay...I know I am not the only one to gripe about this, but here it goes

I am sick and tired of you FAIP tools and active duty IPs treating UPT students as inferiors throughout training! Not only am I an officer, but I have earned my right to be here just as you did...what gives? And its not only the IPs that do it, but also many of the enlisted people around the base. I have had countless two stripers completely blow off saluting me just because they don't see wings on my chest. Another example...the MPF "customer service" representatives have been overheard saying "why are you calling him sir? isnt he just a student?"

Dont treat us as inferior, treat us as your peers. Your job is to train us as pilots, not to be our drill instructors throughout an already stressful year of our lives. You are no better, just more experienced!

Rant switch...off

Rant switch on....

Grow a pair, stfu and sit down and listen to the men who have flown is sometimes for almost as long as you have been alive on this world and think you might learn a little.

It's a humbling experience gonig to UPT as a LT....a little bit more as a Capt. Espically a prior rated Capt. I suggest you do the following and things will go a lot smoother.

1. Sit down

2. Shut up

3. Color

4. Repeat until you're through with UPT and have wings.

Or here's the better option.....

SIE and go be a REMF or a shoe clerk so we can really make fun of you.

PS that other thread you started.....LMAO....I'm missing my anniversary for the 5th time in 10 years and my kids first birthday this deployment, so go f#ck yourself you sh!tbag!!! :flipoff:

Rant switch...off

Edited June 1, 2007 by capt4fans

[Guest Ghost63]

dude, i'm an o, not an e. i've seen plenty of chiefs talk down to a 2lt. i've seen it happen to captains. sit in on a meeting at an amxs, mxs, or muns sometime when you're done w/upt and it'll happen sooner or later. you're right, the good ones will teach you everything you need to know. the good ones will also close the door on you sometime and put you in your place.

also...you can tell a lot by what that snco thinks of you if he addresses you as Lt or Lieutenant.

Fair enough - then don't let it happen to you, either. That's the other half of the problem. I've sat in those meetings in an mxs on the other side of the fence. Even more candid are crew debriefs with a 4,000 hour MSgt letting a 5 minute 2Lt copilot have it (sts). But in both cases, the Lt screwed up and/or dropped the ball on something important and deserved it. But there were a lot of "sir"'s mixed in with the @ss-chewing, and both acted professionally to one another after the fact. There at the end was the biggest point - if an experienced SNCO has something that needs to be addressed, it should be behind a closed door. (Flight debriefs are not included, may cause nausea and vomiting or drowsiness, void where prohibited...)

[Guest LoadChik]

Okay...I know I am not the only one to gripe about this, but here it goes

I am sick and tired of you FAIP tools and active duty IPs treating UPT students as inferiors throughout training! Not only am I an officer, but I have earned my right to be here just as you did...what gives? And its not only the IPs that do it, but also many of the enlisted people around the base. I have had countless two stripers completely blow off saluting me just because they don't see wings on my chest. Another example...the MPF "customer service" representatives have been overheard saying "why are you calling him sir? isnt he just a student?"

Don't treat us as inferior, treat us as your peers. Your job is to train us as pilots, not to be our drill instructors throughout an already stressful year of our lives. You are no better, just more experienced!

Rant switch...off

First and Foremost....Your name says it all.

Secondly, if your bitching about someone not saluting you, then speak up to the individual. If it goes uncorrected, then you are in the wrong. There is no reason to make an ass of yourself and earn a reputation as a tool, but be my guest. If you are short on salutes, drive back through the front gate a few times.

Not only am I an officer, but I have earned my right to be here just as you did

Granted that you and I come from two separate worlds "training" wise, but what have you done other than complete OTS and start your Pilot training? As an "E" that has been around the block a few times ~ reading your post is a joke. There will ALWAYS be individuals in life, let alone the AF, that have the type of mentality you described.

What kills me is that you already sound like a wet blanket and you have not even f*ken finished Pilot training!! I would HATE to be on a crew with you for a deployment, let alone a TDY.

Your job is to train us as pilots, not to be our drill instructors throughout an already stressful year of our lives.

Wow

A very close friend of mine (previous Spooky Gunner) just finished his pilot training and got F-16's. Yes he was stressed but not once did I hear him moaning and groaning about his treatment as an officer. He was thrilled to get a slot and be in pilot training!

GROW A PAIR! once you finish your training and actually get your Wings.....then you can state that you have EARNED your right to be here!

Even though I may only be a lowly enlisted gal, I have no problem saluting, but respect is another. You would not get a "sir" from me, but I would def. address you as Lt.

Respect......now that is something that is EARNED.

Again...just an "E" perspective

/rant off

Edited June 1, 2007 by LoadChik

[Rocker]

This thread is just stupid. Enough already.

[Guest ShineR]

For your sake I hope the IPs at your base or your classmates do not find this thread and figure out someway it is actually YOU. If you think its bad now, the IPs will literally crush you and when they know they have broken you at the end of each day they will say "Now go home and cry about it on baseops, bitch!" Your classmates will also disown you, sadly enough. Also based on your other post, trying to find an AC that doesnt deploy much, good luck. You say you are thinking about fighters, good luck. Of course those are empty words of encouragement because I see you either SIEing or being last in your class. Just my perspectives...its never too late to change. And I hope you do change, because we do not need anymore shoeclerks. Plus, officers are not supposed to be whiners, they are supposed to be leaders and get sh1t done. And right now, even though you wear bars on your shoulder, you are a STUDENT and at the bottom of the food chain. Certainly respectfully demand the mutual respect from Es since you are a LT, but to other officers you are garbage!

Annecdote: If you think you have it bad as a student, try being an MX officer. They have it just as bad if not worse, everyday. You are expected to actually lead and be accountable for 100+ amn and know exactly what is going on with all the jets. With that, each day you will be briefing many officers and SNCOs, including O-6s. And trust me, these people are not happy...ever - especially the O-6s. You will get torn to shreds in front of everyone everday, even if you are SH one day. Be glad you have the priviledge to be yelled at while in UPT.

[Guest Boom]

I am sick and tired of you FAIP tools and active duty IPs treating UPT students as inferiors throughout training! Not only am I an officer, but I have earned my right to be here just as you did...what gives?

Breakaway Breakaway Breakaway....they've earned the right to "train" you to be a pilot because they ARE military pilots. Something you ARE not (yet).

And its not only the IPs that do it, but also many of the enlisted people around the base. I have had countless two stripers completely blow off saluting me just because they don't see wings on my chest. Another example...the MPF "customer service" representatives have been overheard saying "why are you calling him sir? isnt he just a student?"

Then correct the individual on saluting/respect issue. You not correct the behavior when you see it is worse than the individual doing it. Plus it just means it'll happen again.

Dont treat us as inferior, treat us as your peers. Your job is to train us as pilots, not to be our drill instructors throughout an already stressful year of our lives. You are no better, just more experienced!

They are well aware of their jobs, they've been doing it longer than you've been in the Air Force. Your job is to STFU, study, and absorb information. Most importantly about the flying community is be humble. Or someone will make you be that way through humiliation.

Return to Precontact and hold for Force Shaping Board.

[brabus]

Choke yourself, SIE immediately, and go sign up for finance OIC.

Exactly my thoughts. Someone needs to lock this crap. BL: He's a pvssy and anyone w/ that attitude in UPT does not deserve wings, does not deserve to be there and needs to get the fvck out and join the REMFs ASAFP. Point's been made...lock.

[Mambo]

Exactly my thoughts. Someone needs to lock this crap. BL: He's a pvssy and anyone w/ that attitude in UPT does not deserve wings, does not deserve to be there and needs to get the fvck out and join the REMFs ASAFP. Point's been made...lock.

I concur with the gentleman from Vance...all in favor? AYE!!

[HerkDerka]

If you want to join the club...you have to pay your dues.

'Nuff said.

HD