Tops in Blue (TIB) - WTF?

[MCO]

it allows bases to practice team work at a very high level without the high cost. You have to understand that TIB is an immense undertaking at each base. Logistics coordination in of itself gives each base a taste of what it takes to work as a "whole" team to get the mission done. This allows bases to see their logistical weak spots without the cost of a real ops-tempo. Maybe there should be a more open forum for folks to see what it really takes to run a "low cost" high ops-tempo regimen such as TIB. You would be AMAZED at what individual bases would learn from the after-action reports.

You have to be shitting me. I think that is one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard. Instead of practicing like we fight, lets just sing a song and dance, thats basically the same as deploying to a foward location.

[outbreak]

You would be AMAZED at what individual bases would learn from the after-action reports.

That Airman Snuffy can't dance, looks ridiculous in that costume, and one of the back-up singers was a little sharp all night?

Yup, that helps me fly missions. Keep up the good work.

[Steve Davies]

Juan and the team that ran a tight ops-tempo in 1992:

And while Juan gallantly adjusted knobs and switches to make the sound of the TIB sound oh-so-sweet in spite of his ridiculously tight budget, here's the sort of thing that 'whiny pilots' with their lackadaisical ops tempo were doing (contributing nothing to the mission):

Damned pilots and their whining!

Thanks so much for making it easier to just say "NO" to you whiny little bitches...

JuanRamos TIB92

As a civilian employee of the Air Force who has clearly identified himself, is it wise to call your customers 'bitches' in public? My guess is, um, no.

[slacker]

Juan,

Thanks for illustrating the shoe-iness of the Air Force in one post. You have educated many young-uns to the interworkings of a shoe's brain. Because I had to read your post, see your ridiculous picture and the picture of TIB from 1992, 4 kittens will suffer at my hands. It is because of you kittens are punished.

[outbreak]

As a civilian employee of the Air Force who has clearly identified himself, is it wise to call your customers 'bitches' in public? My guess is, um, no.

And it's a small Air Force. Ten bucks says some bitchy whining pilot who is reading this thread could be in your office tomorrow needing help with something. He's gonna look at the name plaque on your desk and know exactly what kind of shoe you are.

[nsplayr]

You have no clue as to how what it takes to even keep you whiny girls qualified to fly planes.

Yes, I'm sure we have no idea about the 69 CBTs, yearly SARC briefs, and TIB-appreciation briefings we're required to box-check in order to do our jobs...

I am going to begin making it my mission to make your lives a living hell on base... Don't bring your whiny concerns to finance, medical, maintenance etc... I have found a new calling! Thanks so much for making it easier to just say "NO" to you whiny little bitches...

Yea, let me know how that works out...ya know why we go to these shops complaining? B/C 95% of the time the people who work there are too f*cking incompetent to do their jobs right the first time. Some support people are great, but you sir are not among them and you give them all a bad name. You are The Shoe Clerk with capital letters.

Also,TIB is more than just a retention tool...blah blah blah

Ya know what is a great teamwork exercise...FIGHTING A GOD DAMN WAR! Maybe if we had more people fighting the war and less people sitting back at CONUS planning team-building TIB exercises some of us wouldn't be on 1-1 dwell with double digit trips to the AOR since 2001. And this isn't even me personally, I'm some FNG lieutenant and I'm this pissed off in place of some of the guys I know who are out there doing the work and don't have time to troll BO.net all day getting butt-hurt. I hope some crusty old gunner puts you in your place one day when he comes to you looking for a little help with a FUBAR travel voucher...

[Vandal]

Wow...

JuanRamos TIB92

Not everyone on here is a pilot type, I and a civilian and think that all of these gay little military touring bands of degenerate homosexuals (ref. Soft Sandy thread) are a complete waste of my hard earned tax dollars. While the TIB and their ilk are prancing away on stage in front of a captive audience of bored Airmen, there are guys who need the money being dropped on your sheer faggotry. You wasteful use of AF dollars, logistics and aircraft to take your show from base to base needs to be reported to the IG as a Fraud, Waste, and Abuse claim. You TIB types are blowing through money that could be used to get the O-clubs back to being a fun place, giving MWR some cash to make life on base a little better, putting gas in jets or bombs through the front doors of people who need a little explosion to brighten their trip to where-ever the fuck the rag heads go. You obviously have no idea what the Air Force's true mission is and I am not talking about that crap the cadets and Basic Trainees have to memorize. Teamwork escapes you doesn't it? Juan, you are the epitome of the self-centered REMF/ TIB douche.

I am in favor of groups like the AF Honor Guard, AF Marching Band, as they have a real purpose and look damn good doing it. TIB is a waste of time and oxygen.

[Guest Sandlapper]

I think making the "behind-the-scenes" logistics effort of TIB would be the death knell of that program...bring it on. I think the average taxpayer would likely be appalled at the cost in man-hours alone, let alone resources that could otherwise be allocated towards the warfighting mission. I wonder how many O & E Clubs could stay afloat without members' dues if we reallocated the TIB budget towards that "retention tool". That's the argument for the TIB program's existence, no?

Leave the "in-theater" entertainment to the USO & NFL cheerleaders.

[HerkDerka]

Not much surprise here.

Wow...

I have to admit...as a retired AF vet...I am ashamed of the pilots writing on this forum. You are a bad example for others to follow

So you're a prance-about, American-Idol wannabe on the taxpayer's dime and you're ashamed of us??? Yeah, good call.

if I knew you were flying me over to Balad or any other place, i would definitely call you out on your vociferous opinions.

If I knew I was flying you to Balad, I would kick you off my aircraft so the space could be used for a medevac.

You folks are clueless to the nature of what it really means to be part of the AF team.

Yeah, noted.

You have no clue as to how what it takes to even keep you whiny girls qualified to fly planes.

And you do? Okay, let's do some basic math:

Poorly sung Backstreet Boys covers required to get a flight of vipers into the air = Zero.

I am going to begin making it my mission to make your lives a living hell on base...

Weren't you just preaching about what it takes to be part of a team? Flawless logic buddy.

You have to understand that TIB is an immense undertaking at each base. Logistics coordination in of itself gives each base a taste of what it takes to work as a "whole" team to get the mission done.

This is the part where I expose the fundamental flaw in your arguement. Copy, it's takes a "lot of work" for the shoe clerks to make TIB happen. The part you need to realize is that TIB isn't a mission. It's a chest-beating circle jerk of self-love and self-appreciation. Meanwhile, the crewdogs, maintainers, intel, and other ops/ops support types are getting the REAL mission down. If you don't have wings, then your mission is to support my mission. TIB has nothing to do with my mission.

You would be AMAZED at what individual bases would learn from the after-action reports.

TIB after action reports? I think I just threw up in my mouth.

Most people that walk away from a TIB show are amazed that the Air Force can even accomplish such a feat as this on such a shoe string budget and tight schedule.

UFB, YGBFSM. El Dorado Canyon, Berlin Airlift, those are feats of accomplishment. You have a dangerously one-sided view of your service. I suggest you go hang with the MX or OPS squadrons for a few days to try and get some perspective. Aside from that, feel free to eat a bowl of dick.

HD

Edited August 3, 2009 by HerkDerka

[ExBoneOSO]

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but the last time I read what the AF Mission was, it was to " fly and fight." No where in that statement do I read any need/reason to "deliver 2nd rate entertainment options..". Then again, as was pointed out in an earlier comment, TIB is an "expeditionary entertainment unit". That must be where they hook into the fly and fight thing..

BTW - tell these two airmen in this story that TIB is more important to accomplishing the mission than anything else.

8/3/2009 - BAGRAM AIRFIELD, Afghanistan (AFNS) -- Two Airmen were injured in a landmine explosion Aug. 2 about 12:30 p.m. at an off-base location near Kandahar Airfield, Afghanistan.

The Airmen were transported to the Craig Joint Theater Hospital here. The Airmen are assigned to the 755th Air Expeditionary Group, which reports to the 455th Air Expeditionary Wing here.

The incident is currently under investigation. Additional details will be provided as they become available

[slacker]

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but the last time I read what the AF Mission was, it was to " fly and fight." No where in that statement do I read any need/reason to "deliver 2nd rate entertainment options..". Then again, as was pointed out in an earlier comment, TIB is an "expeditionary entertainment unit". That must be where they hook into the fly and fight thing..

BTW - tell these two airmen in this story that TIB is more important to accomplishing the mission than anything else.

2nd rate? Juan wishes. TIB is forced crap entertainment, it barely ranks above the BX shelf check that you've done for the last 42 days.

[Toro]

Juan,

The fact that you came here not just to defend TIB, but to call out a bunch of pilots on a PILOT forum just shows what a Class-A fucktard you are. You beat your chest as a veteran and slam on the true mission of the Air Force? You use words like “vociferous” while appearing to be a finance officer qualified as a life support technician who works in the hospital – and able to deny us service at any of the above? You think we contribute nothing to the fight and would seek to make our lives “a living hell”?

You have absolutely no idea and I won’t waste more time to explain why you are wrong. Other than running a soundboard for this ongoing experiment in Fraud, Waste and Abuse, what have you done with your Air Force career? What would you say are the highlights of your time in service? What do you think you have contributed? Answer those questions and I am positive you will only further cement yourself as the epitome of EVERYTHING that is wrong with the Air Force. If shit-for-brains like you were force-shaped, maybe we’d have a fighting chance.

[Guest Bad Intel]

Apparently when TIB came by this deployed location, they bumped some Army folks who were rotating out after their 12 month deployment. They were pissed that they had to come back and check back in with the Mayor cell to get a bunk to sleep in instead of sleeping on a flight out. Thank you Tops In Blue for pissing off the Army folks I work with right now and giving the Air Force an even more shitty reputation with other services.

[navonfire]

Juan,

Last time I checked, the AF was trying to replace you with a couple of shitty web programs. Admittedly, you have attempted to defend a very unpopular program to a very biased community, but to do so in such a classless way is disturbing. The thought that there are people who operators and maintainers depend on to help pay the bills for their families (who are home alone without them 50% of the time) actively trying to screw them is terrifying.

Have you ever been shot at? Have you ever driven a convoy and been blown up? Have you ever been shot down? Ejected? Put your weapon on fire and thought about the fact that you will never see your loved ones again? Have you ever had to sit on a C130 with broken air-condition for 16 hours in the middle of Baghdad in august?

We whine because we hope and pray that this is the toughest part of our job. That coming home and filing a voucher might not take three days and triplicate copies. That we might actually get paid correctly the first time we try, and wouldn't have to waste four more days going back to a building on the other side of base because you are closed for training. Last time I checked, doing your job was pretty good practice at doing your job. We whine because you think wearing reflective belts in a combat zone is a good thing. We whine because at the end of the day, no one suffers except us if you screw your job up. We still have to drop the bombs or haul the flag covered coffins out of danger. Even when we are on hour 16, even when we lie about not being on hour 19. Do you think the maintainers can just shut down the flightline because they all need to do a team-building exersize? Airman snuffy doesn't get paid correctly, or worse, at all, but he is still expected to push that pallet onto the ramp, to load that bomb, or change a tire on a c-17 on a ramp that is 140 degrees in the shade. The only morale we get is knowing that the guy sweating or bleeding next to you has your back. Who's back do you have?

When the war, when the killing and surviving, are the easy parts, and getting your 30 day post deployment health assessment done on the same day your 30 day predeployment health assessment is due is the part that takes the most work and the most energy, it takes the fun out of being on your team.

And to cap it all off, we have it easy compared to the poor bastards in the Army and the Marines.

When you can do your job right the first time without the ego-trip; and replace the operators and maintainers with a shitty web program (Vairlift or Vmedevac), then you can call us whiny bitches, and I will not complain about mandatory attendance of the AF glee club.

Unless you are a MoH winner, then I apologize, and am out of line.

[Stitch]

...as a retired AF vet...

Most people that walk away from a TIB show are amazed that the Air Force can even accomplish such a feat... they would be MORE amazed if they knew the logistics behind it.

Are you f*cking serious? If TIB came to town there's no f*cking way I would tell anyone. I would never want anybody I know to assoiciate my 20+ years of service on mid/swing shift, deployments, TDYs, exercises, etc... mainitaining/servicing/launching/recovering jets in all weather and at all hours to make the mission happen assoicated with that assbaggery. What a f*cking disgrace.

As far as accomplishing a "such a feat" I guess aircrews flying literally half way around the world in cramped cockpits putting bombs on target, airlift crews landing on dirt runways wearing NVGs behind enemy lines, Wild Weasel guys hanging their asses out as live bait to kill radar sites so everyone else can have a pleasent SAM free day and Rescue guys landing helos in hot LZ's to medivac wounded warriors can't compare to the awesomeness that is TIB.

The AF mission is to travel to distant lands, find the bad guys, kill them and break their sh*t.

If you wanna sing/dance etc... then seperate; I'm sure some cruise line is hiring.

[Timbonez]

Juan,

[PirateAF]

Not that I agree with TIB - it does seem to embody the whole concept of Fraud, Waste, and Abuse...

However, in my search to ensure that JuanRamos is not in my neck of the woods (it appears he's at Kirtland) I did stumble on a forum that had many more defenders of TIB - and most of these defenders didn't mock/belittle the operators in the AF.

Supposedly, the defenders of TIB indicate that they are financed by civilian sponsors.

I did like that JuanRamos indicated that TIB runs on a "shoe" string budget.

[Guest Flyin' AF Hawaiian]

Juan,

Many others have already stated several reasons as to why your post was both ill-informed and potentially harmful, in a much more eloquent fashion than I could probably manage. That being said, I'll keep my retort simple:

You (not to mention your attitude) suck. Hopefully you realize that, while you may disagree with some of what is posted here, proclaiming a personal "shoeclerk jihad" is not the proper response.

[contraildash]

The TIB were at Snowfest in 2004. After a long day on the slopes, I wasn't in the best state of mind and actually went to see what they were about. (I had no idea...I wish I did) I left before the first song started, went back to the room and became best friends with a bottle of Cuervo, passed out on the floor.

[Steve Davies]

I did stumble on a forum that had many more defenders of TIB

Too many hilarious responses to quote them all, but here are a couple of gems.

In response to someone who says that as a cadet he was forced to watch a show in order to make up the numbers: "Tops In Blue show as a cadet, it was because your leadership felt it necessary to take you away from the stress and pressures of daily life at the academy and to relax and enjoy yourself for an hour and a half..."

And

"While performing in the desert we are reminded why we are in existance over and over, those men and woman are so proud and honored to be americans, and proud to serve their country, and when we finish our show for them they are renewed able to carry on with their mission with a new found strength and desire to do their best."

Words of wisdom from a 'TIB Mom':

"The Air Force is not ALL about just funding pilots and planes...it is about people... tradition... a mission... a spirit... a TEAM!"

and

"They are in a constant state of deployment, have NO "Life" outside of TIB during their tour and they love what they do".

Brilliant!

[outbreak]

The TIB were at Snowfest in 2004. After a long day on the slopes, I wasn't in the best state of mind and actually went to see what they were about. (I had no idea...I wish I did) I left before the first song started, went back to the room and became best friends with a bottle of Cuervo, passed out on the floor.

When I was in the Nav dorms at Randolph, they did a show between some mx hangars right across the street. I couldn't get away from the crappy, played out folky music. I opened a 30rack and drank till Tops in Blue turned into Green Day.

[flyusaf83]

Don't bring your whiny concerns to finance, medical, maintenance etc... I have found a new calling! Thanks so much for making it easier to just say "NO" to you whiny little bitches...

What an absolute tool. Before now, I've thought that some on this forum are too hard on shoes, but you have shown me how wrong i was. I'm just another FNG Lt but I've already have had some really bad experiences with "support" types. I just assumed they were the exception from the rule. It's so utterly disappointing to see ass clowns like you associated or in the military. I didn't join the AF to watch queers prance around a damn stage. I joined to fight and kill the damn enemy. I don't know why support people believe its underneath them to support the actual warfighters. You should be damn proud of what you do and do it to the best of your ability. You should take pride in enabling the warfighters to do their job without having to worry your job. But instead you despise the people you are supposed to be freaking supporting and vow not to do your job. Congratulations for being and absolute douchebag. I really hope and pray that there are enough better people than you doing your job to make up for your worthlessness. You are a fvcking disgrace.

Edited August 4, 2009 by flyusaf83

[Wolf424]

Because I had to read your post, see your ridiculous picture and the picture of TIB from 1992, 4 kittens will suffer at my hands. It is because of you kittens are punished.

I haven't laughed that hard in awhile, I almost spit beer everywhere. Juan, I would like to thank you for your level of doucheness as it has provided me with more hatred and the desire to make more snide, sarcastic remarks to shoes the world over.

edit: grammar

Edited August 4, 2009 by TheWolf424

[booze]

Too many hilarious responses to quote them all, but here are a couple of gems.

In response to someone who says that as a cadet he was forced to watch a show in order to make up the numbers: "Tops In Blue show as a cadet, it was because your leadership felt it necessary to take you away from the stress and pressures of daily life at the academy and to relax and enjoy yourself for an hour and a half..."

And

"While performing in the desert we are reminded why we are in existance over and over, those men and woman are so proud and honored to be americans, and proud to serve their country, and when we finish our show for them they are renewed able to carry on with their mission with a new found strength and desire to do their best."

Words of wisdom from a 'TIB Mom':

"The Air Force is not ALL about just funding pilots and planes...it is about people... tradition... a mission... a spirit... a TEAM!"

and

"They are in a constant state of deployment, have NO "Life" outside of TIB during their tour and they love what they do".

Brilliant!

Holy shit. I wish I'd never clicked on that link. Skycops and TIB...brothers in arms. Ugh.

Wow!....I dont even know where to start...I have to say I am just...shocked...I am a cop, have been deployed to the desert, and was a member of TIB 2007. To say that TIB is not an uplifting morale booster is ludicrous...and No I dont mean the Rapper...How dense does one have to be to see that? I never really understood what Tops In Blue meant...until I was in a remote deployed location in the Middle East, and wanted SOOO badly to see the '06' (would have been my first one) show...But I couldn't because I was on shift. However, I did get to meet the 2006 team after my shift and after their performance and helped them tear down and get to know them. That single-handedly was enough to boost my morale to finish my tour in the AOR and enough information to know, that I WAS GOING TO AUDITION AND MAKE the 2007 tour. Learn about the program and what it TRUELY stands for Before EVEN ONE....of you is audacious enough to ridicule this program...GO and help them tear down or set up? Or is that to above you to help another human being? Maybe then will you have just an inkling of what you are talking about as opposed to this outlandish slander! We talk about how disconnected we are as a "WHOLE," (meaning human life as we know it,) I grew to know my fellow teammates, my new family so well, and I would die for anyone of them. And its sad to say, but I dont know if I would be willing to do the same for some of my fellow cops....But its because of asinined people who have no clue what they say, and how hurtful things that they say can affect another. ALSO...being apart of a Cop squadron, suprisingly enough, almost ALL of them came and supported myself along with the rest of the 2007 cast when our show came to my base. And Riblett, libby, Mama R. I love you guys....TRUE BLUE through and through...

Nic

Nic · April 11, 2008 09:23 PM

Nic Mama R and I love you as well....I would die for u too You are my Brother forever... Kill them out there and show this world what TIB is in the 08 season, I wish I could be out there beside u!

Love Riblett

[Guest iagra]

Hey Juan, the colonel would like to have a word with you . . .

You too riblett, mama r, libby . . .

Edited August 4, 2009 by iagra