CFI (Certified Flight Instructor) info

[itsokimapilot]

RCB,

I have over 1500 hours as a loadmaster and more than that now as a pilot. There is no way that I would ever try to get that load time to apply to a pilot rating. Nav time is nav time just like load time is load time. So what, if FEs can get credit for an FAA rating. I wouldn't seek out a pilot job based on my experience as a loadmaster. Sure, it will help my resume but I will never equate that to "pilot" time. I do think that my military pilot time should equate to the civilian sector, why, because I am a professional aviator that makes me a peer to civilian pilots. So, your logic that AF IPs can't teach civilian aviation is flawed. I would never profess that I'm ready to go be a 172 instructor. But, I am an instructor with a wealth of experience. I shouldn't have to start at the ground level to become a 172 instructor. I should be able to do a short course to become proficient in that aircraft and then be qualified to teach.

Currently, any 152/172 instructor can go be an CFI for a guy that has a brand new SR-22 right. Do you really think that fresh CFI with 250 hours is more capable at teaching in that aircraft? I would say any smart aviator should know their limitations and teach what they are capable of teaching.

One of the greatest things I have learned in my military training is recognizing and accepting my limitations and not exceeding those limitations.

[HuggyU2]

For a military IP to get his CFI equivalency, you should have (and I think some of this is or may be regulation already)

1. For an MEI: 15 hours PIC in a PISTON multiengine, non centerline thrust. For safety/familiarity.

2. For a CFI: 10-15 hours PIC in a PISTON single, can credit up to ten hours of turbine single time (T-6). Just have 10 or so on top of that or something. Really, that's like 6-8 flights guys.

3. For an AGI: Pass the FOI like everyone else.

4. For a CFII: #2, but under the hood.

5. Pass the CFI written. You gotta get at least a little GA knowledge.

#3 and #5 are required, under the proposal. In fact, you'll have to pass the FOI for the CFI/CFII/MEI certificate.

Proposal #2: How about if the FAA requires every new CFI to get 10 hours in an AT-6/SNJ or Stearman? That's where I'm going to try to use my CFI rating. So, should Mr 20-year old CFI have to do that??

Your "Fair Proposal" is moot. The "good idea" timeline has expired: this new Part 61 goes into effect in 10 weeks.

[BFM this]

[...]There is no way that I would ever try to get that load time to apply to a pilot rating. Nav time is nav time just like load time is load time.[...]

That has to be the dumbest thing I've seen posted on this board since that 11yo stopped trolling last year.

Caveats: former Nav (3k), GA pilot/CFI (2k), now Mil (<1k). Yes, I've got a dog in this thread.

I'm not against loads, some of my best friends are the gear-up-feet-up types, but when was the last time, performing your duties as LM, did you give two fvcks where the plane was pointed after you left the chocks? (other than AD missions) There's the difference, right there. When I arrived at certain midwestern university with avaition program, I had something that is only now blossoming in the noggins of my now regional-flying peers: air-sense. The lack of SA and decision making capability, beyond simple if-then logic, in my instructors was alarming, at least as alarming as it could get when it took 30 seconds to cover a mile.

While we're on the topic of missing the point,

[...]You earned your wings too, but this isn't the 30's and we aren't flying Pan American Clippers across the Atlantic and Pacific. The age of the Nav telling the pilot/pilot(s) where to go is at an end. We have GPS and are trained to do it on our own. As a consolation, pilots are also on the way out but you need to give it 30 years and we will start bitching also.[...]

WTF does this have to do with the future viability of NAV as a career field? The point was that as far as experience req's go, PT61 isn't just about monkey-skills, otherwise there would be an autopilot prohibition for ATP. 1500TT, 500XC: what if NAV time counted for 500TT/250XC? Do you think you'd have a diluted product? I don't think so; NAV is specifically about getting from A-B while meeting mission objectives. It would work, but the forces against it is that there is no longer any NAV representation with the Feds, having seen their last working NAV 30 years ago.

Back onto the original topic: Lets say that you have a CFI who, for the past 6 years, has been mil flying and has only rehacked his CFI with an online test every two years. How's his quality stack against Johnny-CFI, or recently retired Captain Fearless?

Me personally, I think 5 hours dual recieved is the minimimum before I'm ready to be of any use as a CFI again. However, it's the structure of military instruction that brings something valuable to the civilian table.

Skip FOI? Yes.

Skip the oral? Sure.

Skip the practical? Eh, I'm not so sure.

If there were no min dual logged requirements, just taking a prac would be a minimum check/balance to be sure the applicant is ready for this new trick.

Skip the written? No: no value saved for the applicant, and it's a quick QC to make sure they know the rules of the road.

[tac airlifter]

If you knew what it took to EARN AF pilot wings and become an IP you would shut your cake hole.

Agree. I don't think IP's are "given" anything they haven't earned. The idea behind these FAA equivalency ratings is that you've already met or exceeded the level of training and competancy necessary for the qual, so the FAA is giving you what you've earned in the military. As for the CFII thing, you've already earned a portion at IP, so you go back and meet the other requirements and get your rating. There is only a problem if you think IP school is somehow less rigorous than civilian training. Having just completed IP school, I can tell you that it's much more difficult than anything I've ever done on the civilian side.

As for the loadmaster saving the crews in tankers, nothing against loads but any pilot who tries to land gear up should recieve a Q3. That is totally unaccepatable. In hercs we have our Load verify the gear is down because it is possible, although unlikely, that you could have a down and locked indication in the cockpit with a gear not actually locked into position; so its a safety check. But the idea of having loads double check that we didn't forget to put the gear down is just crazy.

[Flare]

Updated info from SheppardAir:

https://www.sheppardair.com/milip.htm

Read that, and also click on the "Click here for CFIMIL Fact Sheet."

[busdriver]

MIL physicals will count towards FAA? AWESOME, I haven't flown GA since IFT since I haven't felt like forking over the cash to get yet another physical. This is great.

[Whitman]

MIL physicals will count towards FAA? AWESOME, I haven't flown GA since IFT since I haven't felt like forking over the cash to get yet another physical. This is great.

Sweet, I was just about to ask that question. Now, aren't you required to fly with your medical certificate in hand? Would that mean that you have to fly with your 10 page FC II folded up in your pocket?

[Guest Cap-10]

All,

The Fact sheet from Sheppard Air states: "Bottom line, if you're a current or former military IP (any service, any aircraft), you can:....."

So does that mean that even though I am not presently current (damn staff tour) in an airplane, I can still take the tests?

ACSC and CFII thru correspondence in the same year? Double threat guy!

Cap-10

[Flare]

Hoser

I believe you are correct. I talked to the Mike at SheppardAir tonight....he said that the whole thing is about 90% straightened out as of now, but there is still a few small things that the FAA hasn't ironed out. I'd shoot him an e-mail and ask him.

Your biggest problem is going to be that you have to visit a FSDO to get the actual rating (not sure about taking the tests from your current location either)....he said that you have to visit a FSDO in person to do any certificate action, so either way, you're going to have to be back here in the US before you will be able to get your updated tickets.

Also, to anyone interested, I'm going to take the CFII test Thursday morning after prepping with the SheppardAir software. I'll let you know if it works.....though I'm sure it will since it was so great for my MilComp test.

[MD]

Question for anyone that might know off the top of their head: If I have a CFI/CFII that has expired, would I need to retake the FOI (since I already completed it once). And will Mil Comp-ing an MEI from having been a Multi-Engine IP also rehack the previously expired CFI/CFII?

[SocialD]

Question for anyone that might know off the top of their head: If I have a CFI/CFII that has expired, would I need to retake the FOI (since I already completed it once).

§ 61.199 Expired flight instructor certificates and ratings

(a) Flight instructor certificates. The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may exchange that certificate for a new certificate with the same ratings by passing a practical test as prescribed in §61.183(h) of this part for one of the ratings listed on the expired flight instructor certificate.

(b) Flight instructor ratings. (1) A flight instructor rating or a limited flight instructor rating on a pilot certificate is no longer valid and may not be exchanged for a similar rating or a flight instructor certificate.

(2) The holder of a flight instructor rating or a limited flight instructor rating on a pilot certificate may be issued a flight instructor certificate with the current ratings, but only if the person passes the required knowledge and practical test prescribed in this subpart for the issuance of the current flight instructor certificate and rating.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997, as amended by Amdt. 61–104, 63 FR 20289, Apr. 23, 1998]

If you can understand that, you should find your answer.....goodluck!

I always thought that you just retake the practical, but the section (2) has me confused. To answer to the second part of your question, you can only renew your CFI, by adding an additional rating, if your certificate has not expired. Check 61.197.

For all you guys considering getting your CFI, they are required to renewed every 24 calendar months. I would recommend reading Part 61 subpart H. There are a few different ways to update these but I would suggest American flyers. You pay $125 once and can renew every two years thereafter. For a little more they will take care of all the paperwork for you, which is nice if you don't have a FSDO nearby. I used this program while I was in UPT and it worked great. There are a few other companies out there that charge you that price every time you update. A Flight Instructor Refresher Course (FIRC) is another way to renew your CFI, but usually run around $150 and consists of two 8 hour days, and again that charge is every time you attend one.

Edited September 10, 2008 by SocialD

[HuggyU2]

Update. I spoke with FAA HQ today.

- 10 Nov 08 is the release date, but it won't get "implemented" for an additional 30 or 60 days. He couldn't remember off the top of his head, but thought is was 60 days. Some sort of Federal requirement.

- If you already have the written for the CFI or CFII complete, you pretty much meet the intent of the rule. However, you might have to get an exception to allow these tests in lieu of the new tests coming out. He didn't think it would be a huge problem, but said no one had asked him that question yet.

- Military medical: they hadn't determined what they wanted military pilots to carry when they flew to prove they had a military medical certificate. More to follow.

- yes, if you were a "former" IP, you should be good to go. So sayeth the FAA.

[stract]

- Military medical: they hadn't determined what they wanted military pilots to carry when they flew to prove they had a military medical certificate. More to follow.

recommendation: 1042 (AF), 4186 "Up Slip" (Army), 5410/2 "Up Chit" (Navy/MC/CG).

[Flare]

New info: confirm what Huggy said about taking the tests now....basically, they might write new FOI, FIA, and FII tests solely for the mil comp guys, and they might not. If they do, and you've already taken the any of the above old tests, they might work.....or they might not. Standby to standby...

[HuggyU2]

I called Mike at Sheppard Air this morning and told him what I knew. He sounds like he's been engaged, and this new change surprised him. I just looked at their website, and they've pulled their test prep software until the FAA makes a solid determination.

It seems the problem is that the HQ FAA guys in DC are a different group than the OK City FAA-guys that make the tests.

[JarheadBoom]

It seems the problem is that the HQ FAA guys in DC are a different group than the OK City FAA-guys that make the tests.

FAA is HQ'd in OKC... isn't it??

Biggest problem I've seen with the Federales (in my limited, A&P mechanic experience) is that one FSDO can tell you one thing, but another FSDO can tell you something 180* out, and STILL be correct by the FAR's. Too much interpretation...

[HuggyU2]

FAA is HQ'd in OKC... isn't it??

Not sure, but the address of what I'm referring to is:

US Dept of Trans - FAA

800 Independence Ave, SW

Washington DC, 20591

[zrooster99]

If you knew what it took to EARN AF pilot wings and become an IP you would shut your cake hole.

Had 160 hrs of GA time when I started UPT...knowing what I know now, some of those CFIs I flew with were scary. I'll take a mil IP any day.

[DeHavilland]

§ 61.199 Expired flight instructor certificates and ratings

(a) Flight instructor certificates. The holder of an expired flight instructor certificate may exchange that certificate for a new certificate with the same ratings by passing a practical test as prescribed in §61.183(h) of this part for one of the ratings listed on the expired flight instructor certificate.

(b) Flight instructor ratings. (1) A flight instructor rating or a limited flight instructor rating on a pilot certificate is no longer valid and may not be exchanged for a similar rating or a flight instructor certificate.

(2) The holder of a flight instructor rating or a limited flight instructor rating on a pilot certificate may be issued a flight instructor certificate with the current ratings, but only if the person passes the required knowledge and practical test prescribed in this subpart for the issuance of the current flight instructor certificate and rating.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997, as amended by Amdt. 61–104, 63 FR 20289, Apr. 23, 1998]

If you can understand that, you should find your answer.....goodluck!

I always thought that you just retake the practical, but the section (2) has me confused. To answer to the second part of your question, you can only renew your CFI, by adding an additional rating, if your certificate has not expired. Check 61.197.

For all you guys considering getting your CFI, they are required to renewed every 24 calendar months. I would recommend reading Part 61 subpart H. There are a few different ways to update these but I would suggest American flyers. You pay $125 once and can renew every two years thereafter. For a little more they will take care of all the paperwork for you, which is nice if you don't have a FSDO nearby. I used this program while I was in UPT and it worked great. There are a few other companies out there that charge you that price every time you update. A Flight Instructor Refresher Course (FIRC) is another way to renew your CFI, but usually run around $150 and consists of two 8 hour days, and again that charge is every time you attend one.

I'll second the pitch for American Flyers. I have used them 3 times now to renew my CFI with their on one course. I paid the one time $125 and they let me on their site every 2 years to renew it. I also have paid the few extra $ for them to process the paperwork.

[Guest TacAirDrvr]

I have also been asking these questions in Little Rock, my FSDO laughed at me when I asked, they hadn't heard of the new proposals. So with that said, I am here in OKC and I am going to stop by and ask the question and get the answer from the horses mouth and post the answers here!

BYW, I think all of the flying, hard work, IP school, AIS, etc, has earned me the right to get a CFII. Will I go fly a C172 and try to teach someone as soon as I get it, hell no, that would be stupid!! I would get training myself. But I deserve the ratings, I put my time and study in already, I don't need to pay an FBO to get ratings I have already earned! My FBO wasn't the local type it was the 8th FTS at Vance!!!

[HuggyU2]

You might be wasting your time: Mike at Sheppard Air already IS talking to the belly buttons on both the testing side, and the certification side of the FAA. He posts updates as he gets them.

I occasionally speak to the certification side, and there's really no other information to provide. The FAA will figure out how they are going to run the testing, and they will let us all know between now and 10 Nov.

[Guest pavedickey]

Question for anyone that might know off the top of their head: If I have a CFI/CFII that has expired, would I need to retake the FOI (since I already completed it once). And will Mil Comp-ing an MEI from having been a Multi-Engine IP also rehack the previously expired CFI/CFII?

You have to take another practical, but no further tests. Once it is expired, the only way to get it renewed is another practical. This will also apply when it comes time for this new mil CFI to get renewed if you let it expire as well. (every 2 years for those not familiar with CFI requirements). As far as getting it renewed with the new Mil Comp, we'll have to wait and see what the FAA finally rules on that, but as of right now, it will require another practical with either an FAA examiner or a DPE ($$$$$$).

Edited October 17, 2008 by pavedickey

[Guest pavedickey]

For a military IP to get his CFI equivalency, you should have (and I think some of this is or may be regulation already)

1. For an MEI: 15 hours PIC in a PISTON multiengine, non centerline thrust. For safety/familiarity.

Check the FAR's. In order to instruct in a Multiengine aircraft the IP must have logged a minimum of 10 hours as PIC in make and model in which they are intending to instruct.

2. For a CFI: 10-15 hours PIC in a PISTON single, can credit up to ten hours of turbine single time (T-6). Just have 10 or so on top of that or something. Really, that's like 6-8 flights guys.

Sorry, the FAA doesn't require any PIC time in make and model for single engine...BUT there isn't an FBO in the country that will rent you an airplane without at least an hour or two checkout to make sure you're not a total dough-cranium.

3. For an AGI: Pass the FOI like everyone else.

Absolutely the most useless rating ever! Only for guys that can't hold a medical. FOI is or should be covered at either PIT or AITC so that test is not necessary.

4. For a CFII: #2, but under the hood.

Have a nut, but not necessary for instructing instruments.

5. Pass the CFI written. You gotta get at least a little GA knowledge.

Totally agree! There are a few civilian items that do not correlate with military flying...especially their VOR instrumentation and interpretation.

Edited October 17, 2008 by pavedickey

[HuggyU2]

Typical gov't bureaucracy: they have to wait until the very last day,... and then not really finish the job.

Looks like it's going to go tbrough,... but don't plan on getting your certificate issued before mid-January.

https://www.sheppardair.com/milip2.htm

[HuggyU2]

The mechanics of the implementation haven't been decided yet.

For example, if you are ex-military, and your last Form 8 checkride was 4 years ago, is that the date they put on your certificate? If so, you'll get issued a certificate that is already outdated. And if that were the case, you'd need to accoplish the checkride,... although it wouldn't be an "initial CFI", so you could use a Designated Examiner for the redo.

Also, they haven't figured out how to implement the provision that allows your military flight physical to be used in lieu of the Class II/III form.

More to follow...