Cap-10 Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Right, but those same maneuvers (Shorts, softs, steep spiral, Chandelles, lazy-eights, and eights-on) come up again in the CFI checkride... Why not use the commercial rating to nail them? Practicing on my own dime is one thing...using the SE-COMM checkride to "practice" is another. Cap-10 Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App! 1
Dupe Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 My personal view is the commercial standards are "fluffier" than ATP standards. The commercial maneuvers are all graded based on being controlled and coordinated and are really qualitative. That said, bust the MDA on the ATP, and it's over. The SE-commercial is a ride that 20-year olds without college degrees pass at a very high rate. Besides, most DPEs are incredibly supportive of the military. Getting the DPE on your side is half the battle.
HuggyU2 Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) Why even get a SE-ATP at all? Totally agree.Why? 1. Because it is a professional certification for pilots. I happen to be a professional pilot. 2. Because I enjoy flying. And if I'm going to spend time flying, I see no reason not to brush up on the FAA/ Civilian part of things, and get the rating. It was a great time. 3. Because I get to opportunity to learn something from the IP and the DPE that I worked with. 4. Because it gives me another opportunity to interact with my local FSDO. As it turns out, my FSDO is made up of a great group of inspectors, and I have a very good rapport with them. 5. It gave me the excuse to get checked out in another aircraft. I like that. I'm up to about 95 different types that I've flown. I'm a better pilot for it. 6. I could list more, but you get the idea. But if it's too much of a hassle for you, don't bother. I guess. Edited March 31, 2014 by Huggyu2 1 1
Dupe Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Why? 1. Because it is a professional certification for pilots. I happen to be a professional pilot. 2. Because I enjoy flying. And if I'm going to spend time flying, I see no reason not to brush up on the FAA/ Civilian part of things, and get the rating. It was a great time. 3. Because I get to opportunity to learn something from the IP and the DPE that I worked with. 4. Because it gives me another opportunity to interact with my local FSDO. As it turns out, my FSDO is made up of a great group of inspectors, and I have a very good rapport with them. 5. It gave me the excuse to get checked out in another aircraft. I like that. I'm up to about 95 different types that I've flown. I'm a better pilot for it. 6. I could list more, but you get the idea. But if it's too much of a hassle for you, don't bother. I guess. All good and noble. I think the bang for the buck just isn't there with the ATP-SEL rating unless you have a specific job you're jumping into. Getting ratings in other categories (rotary wing, glider, weight shift control, powered parachute, lighter than air...) will achieve more of your stated goals and certainly will make you more broad as a pilot than doing a couple of approaches in a Warrior with a DPE present. No doubt, you likely already have a few non-airplane ratings on your Orville & Wilbur card. Nobody yet has said the real reason to get an ATP-SEL... so you can tell the AF to shove it and you start flying in Alaska or the Carribean. That's doubly-true for the ATP-SES. I'll let this thread go back to how military pilots can get their CFI.... There's a ton of value in military CFIs as most civilian CFIs just don't have the depth of experience that mil dudes do. 1
HuggyU2 Posted March 31, 2014 Author Posted March 31, 2014 I think the bang for the buck just isn't there... Aviation, and the experiences that make it what it is, aren't just about "bang for the buck".
Kaman Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 I have to respectfully disagree to the statement about the experience of civilian CFIs...Flying 7-engine approaches in a BUFF doesn't transfer very well to either flying or teaching in a Seminole...
Chida Posted March 31, 2014 Posted March 31, 2014 Dupe: I suggest you go back and re-read. The point of getting the ATP-SEL instead of the Comm-SEL for military pilots who want to get the CFI: there are fewer maneuvers to do on the ATP-SEL check ride. This assumes that the prospective CFI already has an ATP-MEL and is doing an ASEL add-on for the sole purpose of doing an add-on to his CFI ticket (which he already has in the ME class because of military competency). That is the sole reason advocated a least one page back and maybe more.
10percenttruth Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 I have to respectfully disagree to the statement about the experience of civilian CFIs...Flying 7-engine approaches in a BUFF doesn't transfer very well to either flying or teaching in a Seminole... 7-engine approaches are for sissies. We do 6-engine stuff for all the checkrides & 4-engine stuff when we're feeling froggy in CFIC 1
theat6bisasham Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 I have to respectfully disagree to the statement about the experience of civilian CFIs...Flying 7-engine approaches in a BUFF doesn't transfer very well to either flying or teaching in a Seminole... Yea, how could that have any impact on your general ability to fly/instruct an airplane….maintaining SA over multiple hours of flying a cable driven ancient beast across multiple timezones, dealing with MULTIPLE nave at once and trying to put gas in the tanks for 20 mins at a time before trying to put iron on target 12 jdam at a time…yea…how the hell could that EVER translate to being able to fly the mighty ing Seminole…i bow down the lowly CFI at my local FBO... 1
Dupe Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 Dupe: I suggest you go back and re-read. The point of getting the ATP-SEL instead of the Comm-SEL for military pilots who want to get the CFI: there are fewer maneuvers to do on the ATP-SEL check ride. This assumes that the prospective CFI already has an ATP-MEL and is doing an ASEL add-on for the sole purpose of doing an add-on to his CFI ticket (which he already has in the ME class because of military competency). That is the sole reason advocated a least one page back and maybe more. I get it.... I just don't agree with it. The commercial rating is all about smooth maneuvering throughout the flight regime. The ATP is a boring collection of a few approaches. Which will give you a better background to instruct students? The commercial. 1
TreeA10 Posted April 1, 2014 Posted April 1, 2014 After 30 years of flying, a MEL ATP and 12,000 hours a variety of jets large and small, I finally got my SEL in a C-172 via a Commercial Inst check last Saturday. Did the Figure 8 around pylons, chandelle, stalls, short field takeoff/landing, soft field takeoff/landing, power off 180 and normal takeoff/landing. Probably left something off that list. Was it perfect? No, but I passed. The check pilot wasn't expecting perfection, he was expecting safe. Flying small aircraft is dramatically different from the large jets we are used to. If you plan on carrying family and friends, I would highly recommend doing those things that will improve your understanding of how the aircraft performs. It doesn't take much weight or winds to start making large differences in how that thing flies. Adjusting my brain around those ideas took a little time and practice. That, and the fact I'm no longer sitting 15 feet off the ground in the flare. 5
Kaman Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 Yea, how could that have any impact on your general ability to fly/instruct an airplane….maintaining SA over multiple hours of flying a cable driven ancient beast across multiple timezones, dealing with MULTIPLE nave at once and trying to put gas in the tanks for 20 mins at a time before trying to put iron on target 12 jdam at a time…yea…how the hell could that EVER translate to being able to fly the mighty ######ing Seminole…i bow down the lowly CFI at my local FBO... Well, I fly a 25-year old turboprop in the Northeast in crap weather, congested airspace in a jacked up industry...So what? There is a BIG difference between GA and military flying...Whether you want admit it or not...So, get your ego under control, and lighten up a bit, demonstrate that you have a sense of humor. I was just teasing you guys...US military pilots, are the best in the world at what they do...No question. 2
Shaft34 Posted April 2, 2014 Posted April 2, 2014 I know this was pretty much answered earlier in the thread, but I found this fairly simple flowchart on Sheppard Air's website that might be helpful to someone. Even us knuckledragging singleseat types... https://www.sheppardair.com/download/MCI_Flowchart_v02.pdf
sky_king Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 I got my new CFII certificate in the mail the other day and on the back it says: XII: RATINGS FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR ..INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE It doesn't mention ASEL or anything on it. (I've only been an IP in the T-6) Did the FSDO screw this up? They did try to only give me instrument and commercial priviledges for multi-engine and private for single engine, so I don't have a high degree in confidence.
BFM this Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 CFI is a separate card from your pilot license, which will list those privileges. Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!
sky_king Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 Yeah, that's all it lists on the separate card. I looked it up and it appears as if they screwed up and didn't put ASEL on the card.
stract Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 your CFII card only lists what you are authorized to instruct. Your pilot certificate lists what you are allowed to pilot and in what conditions. My Pilot Certificate lists: Commercial Airplane Single-Engine Land & Rotorcraft-Helicopter, Commercial Instrument Airplane & Helicopter. My CFII certificate lists: Flight Instructor Rotorcraft-Helicopter and Instrument Helicopter, since I've only been an IP in the HH-60.
AA Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 What does your pilot certificate say right now? Does it say: Private privileges for Single-engine? If so, thats the reason. If not, re-engage.
Dupe Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) What does your pilot certificate say right now? Does it say: Private privileges for Single-engine? If so, thats the reason. If not, re-engage. Yep... To make that more clear, you have to have "Commercial Pilot ...Airplane Single Engine Land (or Sea)" on your pilot certificate before they'll put "Airplane Single Engine" on your flight instructor certificate. Did you ever do the commercial mil comp? Edited June 29, 2014 by Dupe
sky_king Posted June 29, 2014 Posted June 29, 2014 (edited) I already sent the guy I was working with at the FSDO an email with all the documents he looked at. Like I said, he didn't really understand the whole mil competency thing and it took quite a while to convince him that an E-8 is based on a B707. Pilot Certificate: COMMERCIAL PILOT AIRPLANE SINGLE & MULTIENGINE LAND; INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE B-707 (Looking for that sweet Pan Am gig); B-720; BE-400; MU-300 CFII Certificate: FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE Edited June 29, 2014 by sky_king
GBock Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) Your instructor certificate is worthless. If you showed the FSDO examiner that you were an IP in the T-6, your instructor certificate should say: FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR AIRPLANE SINGLEENGINE INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE The way it currently reads, you can't instruct in a single engine or multiengine aircraft because that category and class doesn't appear on your certificate. You can't even instruct instrument flying in any type aircraft until you have an aircraft category and class on your instructor certificate. 14 CFR 61.195 ( b ) Aircraft Ratings. A flight instructor may not conduct flight training in any aircraft for which the flight instructor does not hold: (1) A pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate with the applicable category and class rating; and (2) If appropriate, a type rating. ( c ) Instrument Rating. A flight instructor who provides instrument training for the issuance of an instrument rating, a type rating not limited to VFR, or the instrument training required for commercial pilot and airline transport pilot certificates must hold an instrument rating on his or her pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft used for the training provided. Back to the FSDO for you! Edited June 30, 2014 by GBock
Dupe Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I already sent the guy I was working with at the FSDO an email with all the documents he looked at. Like I said, he didn't really understand the whole mil competency thing and it took quite a while to convince him that an E-8 is based on a B707. You may want to just pay a DPE to do this for you. They'll charge, but you'll get this solved quickly. Consider the value of your time here... There are some guys who have specialized in turning your stack of Forms 8 and mil comp tests into appropriate pilot, flight instructor, and type ratings. If you're in or TDY to Fort Walton Beach or Boston areas, I can recommend DPEs.
sky_king Posted June 30, 2014 Posted June 30, 2014 I just emailed the FSDO guy that did it the first time. He responded quickly and is going to send me a temp certificate today, hopefully.
Cap-10 Posted August 24, 2014 Posted August 24, 2014 Just did a CFI-ASE add on with "Gordo" Sanders out of JFX (Jasper Al)...highly recommend! Cap-10 Posted from the NEW Baseops.net iOS App!
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