Athletics & Flying

[joshrk22]

Just curious... How many of you participated in sports (specifically college). I've been reading a couple biographies about pilots. What I’ve noticed is that most great pilots have participated in a college sport. More specifically, the fighter pilots that I have read about, all played a college sport. Do you think being involved with a college sport helped them get where they are? It was just an observation; wanted to see what you guys thought. I thought maybe the level of competition helped them develop a mindset of always being a winner and hating to lose.

[brabus]

Playing sports is just good all around. Sure it'll help foster that "winning attitude," but it'll also help you w/ hand-eye coordination (some sports more than others), maybe you need to learn to work on a team better, whatever. But college sports is a different animal. I played intramural stuff and just pick up games for fun, but didn't play actual NCAA sports or something. It's very hard to do school, ROTC and play a Div I/II sport. If you can do it, more power to you, but very few are able to. Back when I started college, I may have been able to play baseball had I stuck w/ it, but it was going to be way too much to play baseball, get a degree, do ROTC and still have time to do the outdoor stuff I loved to do. While I like baseball, the time commitment just wasn't worth it to me...I went to college/did ROTC so I could get a commission and fly, that was my main goal, so I did what I thought was best to help that goal along.

BL: If you're thinking playing a college sport is somehow going to drastically help you become a fighter pilot, it's not. Skills and mindsets that make a good player and a fighter pilot down the line (referring to the dudes in your book) were most likely developed before playing a college sport. When it comes to flying, you either have the drive or you don't, you either have the hands or you don't...whether you played football in college has little if nothing to do w/ UPT or flying in general (w/ the small exception if you had no drive and football gave it to you or something...but that's a little out there).

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Do you think being involved with a college sport helped them get where they are?

Absolutely.

Sports are good. Team sports are better. Team sports requiring a helmet, mouthguard and a cup are best.

Poise under pressure and the discipline learned through doing something physically and mentally challenging (at the same time) while at risk of pain or injury to yourself or your team mates if you fail is something that will automatically train you to maintain SA.

Am I saying you will be a fighter pilot if you do play a sport? Nope.

Am I saying you will help yourself out by through the experience if you play a sport? Yep.

Am I saying you won't be a good fighter pilot if you don't play a sport? Nope.

Does that mean you, personally, will be a better fighter pilot if you play a sport? IMHBAO, yep. Dramatically.

BL: If you're thinking playing a college sport is somehow going to drastically help you become a fighter pilot, it's not.

Wrong.

All due respect to Brabus...but please consider the fact that he is offering advice and has neither played a college sport nor has he been a fighter pilot.

Technique only.

[joshrk22]

Thanks guys. I'm not trying to increase my chances of becoming a pilot by playing a college sport, it was just something that I was curious about. I'm actually going to try and do a college sport (track - high jump) for a D1 or D2 school, but I'm not sure how busy I'm going to be. I guess it's going to depend on how long practices are, how many times a week ROTC meets, and if I can handle my degree at the same time.

Anybody familiar with the flying program at SIU? I'm trying to get a track/academic scholarship to go there. If I do get a scholarship I want to do the flight program. I've heard some bad things and some good things about it.

[Scooter14]

I guess it's going to depend on how long practices are, how many times a week ROTC meets, and if I can handle my degree at the same time.

I played 2 years of lacrosse in college and I was a cross-town (had to cross state lines) ROTC cadet. We were a club team that went varsity my junior year. One of my rommates had played in high school, and he encouraged us to try out. I had a stick growing up, but had never played in an organized game.

24 slots, 24 kids tried out.

Trying to juggle everything was a challenge. My coach was a cock. He had less lax experience than I did. All he cared about was running us into the ground. He was a hoops star at the school from way back. Scholarship, etc. Rah, rah team.

None of us were on a lax scholarship.

We went 2-9 the first year, 1-10 the second.

Often, I had to choose between ROTC and practice. This will happen to you. Remember who will be employing you after college. (Hint, I'm not in the MLL right now). I rode the pine because of this more often than not. I was too dumb to quit the team. I'm too dumb to quit anything. I enjoyed the game, the team (except the coaching), the trips, running full speed into people, great group of dudes. I wasn't going to quit on them, but I had to put stuff in perspective to get what I wanted out of ROTC - the opportunity to fly.

Just one heavy pilot's perspective on balancing ROTC and sports. If I could do it over again, I'd go to a school with ROTC on campus and I'd trade in my lax coach for one that didn't suck. If I couldn't change those two things, I wouldn't change a thing.

Sports are good. Team sports are better. Team sports requiring a helmet, mouthguard and a cup are best.

Two. I'm off to the rink.

[brabus]

Rainman, you're correct. I haven't played a Div I/II sport nor am I a fighter pilot. But, as an honest question, what % of pilots played a Div I/II sport in college? I don't know, but I would guess it's a very small percentage. Many have played intramural, club, etc, but how many have played a no shit college sport. That's the point I was trying to get across. I bet I love sports and am a supporter of playing sports just as much as you are. All I was saying is that doing a college sport b/c it'll improve your chances at flying is probably not the best reason to do so. You should play b/c it's fun, you get to knock the shit out of people and win. Of course there are positive correlations b/w sports and flying, but considering how many pilots played a college sport, it's obviously not a requirement, nor a huge boost. I know you have much more experience in this than I do, but what worked for you is probably not the norm, nor a requirement to get to the same place.

To the orig poster: I would recommend giving it a shot. If you can run track, do ROTC and do well in school...do it! But, if you find ROTC and grades suffering b/c of how much time track requires, you'll have to evaluate your priorities. I'm not saying that will happen, but it might. Go kick ass at track, but make sure you kick enough ass in grades/ROTC to get the pilot slot. Good luck man.

Edited June 15, 2007 by brabus

[Guest Rainman A-10]

...but what worked for you is probably not the norm, nor a requirement to get to the same place.

I never said it was, dumbass.

I did say I believe it will help. I don't think track is going to help much in the ways I was but it is better than nothing.

Actually playing a varsity sport is better than the standard lame ass "well, I could've been a varsity athlete but I decided to concentrate on my grades and play intramural sports instead" world's most commonly used BS comment. That is the precursor to the "I could've gone to weapons school but..." line of BS.

Again, you don't have a clue what you're talking about here. I was polite. You decided to comew back at it with a "Yeah, but..."

I guess that means I'm obligated to repsond appropriately...

STFUYFLSADA

low SA dumbass

[joshrk22]

Thanks for the advice guys.

[brabus]

I was polite as well, I was asking a serious question about the % who played sports. I never said I could have played varsity (sorry, my school didn't have varsity baseball, only a "competitive" club team). Rainman, I respect you for you experience and help here, but hell, I wasn't trying to jump your shit or anything w/ my last post. I think it was just a huge misunderstanding, so just disregard and lets move on. And just curious...I got as far as the "SADA" part, what's that?

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Fair enough.

[Guest JimmyH]

STFUYFLSADA

low SA dumbass

And just curious...I got as far as the "SADA" part, what's that?

Classic!

(sorry for adding nothing to the conversation.. but for what its worth team sports are a great way to learn and get experience as both a leader and follower in a group environment and even in the big airplane world being in good shape is a bonus, if for no other reason than it makes everything easier from dealing with constantly changing sleep schedules to carrying a ridiculous amount of bags to the aircraft.. ha -- i wish i had played more than intermural softball in college and definately would have done it differently if i could go back)

Edited June 16, 2007 by JimmyH

[HercDude]

What I’ve noticed is that most great pilots have participated in a college sport. More specifically, the fighter pilots that I have read about, all played a college sport.

How many of these guys went to West Point, Annapolis, or the AFA - where you are required to play a sport?

[brabus]

Don't know why it took Jimmy's post to figure it out, but I got it. I super smart!

[B-O-double-Z]

I'm not sure if playing a college sport makes you a better fighter pilot, but...

There is a lot of similarity between being on a serious sports team and being in a fighter squadron. I don't think you have to play sports at the college level, but being good at some sport, at some level, especially a team sport, seems to be a good primer for success in a fighter squadron.

It is competitive environment. There is a lot of peer expectation and accountability. You have to be confident and display grace under pressure. It helps to not be a pvssy.

I don't think that many civilian workplaces compare to being in a fighter squadron. In a way, it is a refuge from ever really having to grow up. If you have a good boss, you can (and should) conduct yourself like a kid on a sports team. You have a very similar dynamic and ethos. There are your natural leaders, your talented slackers, your hard-working over achievers, your locker room lawyers, your quitters, your steady solid contributers, your cry babies, your guys who are just doing it for their dads, your pretty boys, and your crazy bastards. In fighter squadrons, there are some great teams and some sh!tty ones.

...and by the way, Robin Olds (who was a pretty good fvcking fighter pilot) was a standout football player at West Point.

Him, Him.

[Beaver]

This is just my observation but I know a ton of fighter pilots that played varsity sports in college. Just off the top of my head I know a couple swimmers, soccer player, water polo, football, javelin, golf. The golfer is a patch wearer. Go figure. I also know a guy who was a semi-pro skate boarder. He's also a patch wearer.

[Guest sleepy]

I have noticed that many good pilots also play some kind of musical instrument.

There are, of course, countless one-liners that can follow that. I'll spare mine for the time being.

[Guest Liger]

i ran varsity track in college and the LTC who interviewed me for my pilot slot played varsity soccer-- it definately gave us something in common to talk about...

[pcola]

Thanks guys. I'm not trying to increase my chances of becoming a pilot by playing a college sport, it was just something that I was curious about. I'm actually going to try and do a college sport (track - high jump) for a D1 or D2 school, but I'm not sure how busy I'm going to be. I guess it's going to depend on how long practices are, how many times a week ROTC meets, and if I can handle my degree at the same time.

Anybody familiar with the flying program at SIU? I'm trying to get a track/academic scholarship to go there. If I do get a scholarship I want to do the flight program. I've heard some bad things and some good things about it.

I don't know anything about the flying program at SIU, but I do have first hand knowledge of the ROTC program and track team. I was a middled distance runner at SIU, a ROTC cadet, and an EE student. Let me answer your question about how busy you'll be. Extremely. Here's a sample of my days when I was at my busiest:

4:30 AM - wakeup, eat, study

5:30 AM - hop on the bike to ride to AM practice.

6:00 AM - stretch, bullshit with the team, prepare for the morning run (anywhere from 3-8 miles, 6 min/mile - 4:30 min/mile pace)

7:00 AM - shower, dress, sometimes ICE/STEM/Stretch with the trainers for the tendonitis pain

8:00 AM - 2:50 PM - school, study, eat, BS

3:00 PM - 6:00 PM - Afternoon practice/weight training. Usually things like plyos, hills, sprints, interval work, speed drills, etc.

6:00 PM - Bike back home to eat, study, shower, sleep, etc

Many times spent Thursday evenings traveling to Meets, competing on Friday/Saturday, usually only had a 10 mile run on Sunday and used the rest of that day to catch up on EE projects/ROTC stuff.

It was a very demanding and busy schedule. Fortunately for me, the ROTC Cadre at the time were very understanding of my schedule and I was for the most part a "ghost cadet." I tried to make it to the Tuesday night lead labs, and always to class, but thats really about it. I never did anything extracurricular with ROTC, and was exempt (duh) from attending the PT sessions. It didn't hurt me, I still got a pilot slot.

Your schedule will vary as a jumper. I don't remember for certain, but I'm pretty sure the jumpers didn't have morning practices. Also, if you are an aviation major (vs an EE) you won't have to spend as much time studying. However, its still going to be difficult, but in the end, worthwhile. You also mentioned trying to get a track scholarship. You may know this, but having a scholarship will cover your tuition and room/board, but it won't cover the flying related fees (which is the majority of the cost.) If you do get a scholarship, it will still cost a lot of money to get your flight ratings.

[Scooter14]

Looking back on my post and pcola's post...

It was a very demanding and busy schedule. Fortunately for me, the ROTC Cadre at the time were very understanding of my schedule and I was for the most part a "ghost cadet." I tried to make it to the Tuesday night lead labs, and always to class, but thats really about it. I never did anything extracurricular with ROTC, and was exempt (duh) from attending the PT sessions. It didn't hurt me, I still got a pilot slot.

Unfortunately, this was not the case for me. I grew up in a year where there were 100 pilot and 100 nav slots nationwide and most of the class that graduated a year ahead of me got to fly a hole in the ground and turn keys. I also did not have the understanding cadre or an understanding coach. Each thought their program was the A #1 thing I should be doing. I had to put more into ROTC to get that commanders ranking to get that slot.

You will have to gage your situation when you get there, but now you have many perspectives. Good luck and have fun. Manage your time wisely.

[Guest alfakilo]

I'll toss in a word that I haven't seen used yet.

Aggressiveness. The willingness to get in there and mix it up.

A quality necessary for success in flying fighters or playing sports.

[yerfer]

Question.

I've been climbing competitively since I was 12 and still do it today (22 yrs old). Even though its a sport thats not team oriented, will it still be viewed as something like a college sport?

Its taken years and years of constant training (strength, technique, discipline) to be a good climber/competitor.

I've also coached many climbers over the years (leadership recognition)

Just wondering.

Thanks.

Edited June 18, 2007 by yerfer

[B-O-double-Z]

I'd be more interested to see how many people were part of a Division I major conference football/basketball/baseball team.

I played 4 years of college football in Div 1A. We won 36 games including three bowls. Beat Texas, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, etc. I've started flying A-10s nineteen years ago and I'm still at it.

Like I said in my post in this thread...sports don't make you a better pilot, but beig in a fighter squadron is a lot like being on a sports team. Having a strong personality and lots of confidence will serve you well in the long run. You can develop those things playing sports. If not in college, many of the top guys I've flown with were successful athletes in high school. I don't want to overstate the case, because there are certainly a lot of highly successful fighter pilots who have never played sports. It seems like a lot of fighter pilots were good baseball players too.

[pcola]

Whenever I see that someone here "has played a varsity sport", it's always something odd or low-exposure like lacrosse or crew. Or maybe something like track or swimming at a really small school.

I'd be more interested to see how many people were part of a Division I major conference football/basketball/baseball team.

Hey bonehead. SIU = Southern Illinois University = D1. Not "really small." Reference the basketball team. And I'd wager to say that being a Cross Country/Middle distance Track runner is one of the toughest things going. Probably not as physically demanding as football, but much more so than baseball or basketball. Try running 20 400M laps each under 60 secs with only a 200M walk as a rest between laps. Those were the hardest workouts of my life, really makes a person question their will to continue. There are also very few athletes more disciplined and competitive than a D1 cross country runner. Running at that level takes a god-given talent and an incredible tolerance for pain. I understand you said you weren't knocking anything, but I'm not really sure what the point of your post was.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Whenever I see that someone here "has played a varsity sport", it's always something odd or low-exposure like lacrosse or crew.

Ugh.

How much do you know about lacrosse? Or crew?

It's is ok to have an opinion but if you don't have any experience your opinion is not worth much.

I thought the original question "...the fighter pilots that I have read about, all played a college sport. Do you think being involved with a college sport helped them get where they are?" was a good one.

However, this thread will quickly become another turd that needs to be flushed down the Baseops shitter if we keep going down this track.

My daughter, an all state lacrosse player, has just turned down several scholarship offers and is not even going to play lacrosse in college. I am more bummed about her never playing again than I am about having to foot a $45K/yr college bill with no financial aid. She will always be one of those people who says "Yeah, I could've played lacrosse in college blah blah blah..."

She is choosing to miss a great opportunity. My three boys behind here are more flabbergasted than I am. They seem to get it, which is good.

I will say again, I believe a sport (varsity) where you have to work as a team and there's risk of personal injury to yourself or others if you fail to play your position properly develops many of the skills required as a fighter pilot. I think the varsity part is important because it involves an entirely different level of commitment. If you've done both varsity and club/intramural you know what I'm talking about. If you haven't, you don't.

I believe anyone who has the opportunity to play any varsity sport at any college level will get those benefits. We're not talking about someone having the Chad Hennings Outland trophy/Superbowl ring level of talent. We're not talking about the .0069% of the population with professional athletic ability. We're talking about the opportunity to develop certain skills through an athletic experience. That opinion is shared by several other people who have experience, either personal as former college varsity athletes or anectdotal as observers in fighter squadrons where there seem to be a lot of former college jocks.

Pretty simple. Every jock is going to tell you their athletic experiences in college helped them. It may be true, it may not. What really matters is that they all believe it helped and none believed it hurt. Very few people would argue that it doesn't help, especially since they would have a hard time convincing anyone they knew what they were talking about.

BL, we're not going to prove anything here one way or the other.

Question answered.

Take it FWIW and lets move on.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Try running 20 400M laps each under 60 secs with only a 200M walk as a rest between laps.

No need to convince me, I wouldn't try walking one lap.