So there I was...

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

You can't be a SNAP if you aren't a flier. Sensitive New Aged PILOT.

Thank you, I can read. I said "SNAP-ness" (conveying they possess attributes of said SNAPs), not something like "Those MPF weenies are SNAPs". People keep talking about how the shoeclerks must have polluted the flier's minds or somehow changed them into SNAPs. Reality says they were simply shoe clerks in flier's clothing. There have always been great pilots and aircrew, but it starts and ends with the top. If the fliers hadn't tolerated or even propogated the shoe clerk philosiphy, SNAP would just be a phrase from that kid's show

EDITED: Pissed off, deleted some shit

[Stiffler]

Thank you, I can read. But apparently you can't. I said "SNAP-ness" (conveying they possess attributes of said SNAPs), not something like "Those MPF weenies are SNAPs". People keep talking about how the shoeclerks must have polluted the flier's minds or somehow changed them into SNAPs. Reality says they were simply shoe clerks in flier's clothing. There have always been great pilots and aircrew, but it starts and ends with the top. If the fliers hadn't tolerated or even propogated the shoe clerk philosiphy, SNAP would just be a phrase from that kid's show

Wow the booms are pissy tonight!

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

Wow the booms are pissy tonight!

Rough night. And it's not even 9

[WeatherManC130]

The faggotry you displayed in that last post will make you a perfect fit for the Bone.*pun included*Yeah you would think, however I know Captains in my squadron who can't figure out how many stripes a MSgt has. Shit happens and the fact you're a new 2Lt no one really gives a shit either.

Wow to think I liked the tanker/heavy idea because of the comradery. The term pnf is actually starting to appeal to me more and more.

WxMan

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

Wow to think I liked the tanker/heavy idea because of the comradery. The term pnf is actually starting to appeal to me more and more

I don't know about boom, but my sentence in the TALCE/CRW has jaded me to most things AF related. Shoeclerks and SNAPs in this place run wild like gazelles' in the serengeti. The tanker (I'm assuming airlift as well) community is cool. The mobility career path, ie CRW, is anything but.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

....me walking into the BX (SSgt) and newly ex-wife walking out (Captain). The only salute was the bird I flipped her while laughing.

There's something to be proud of.

Class act.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

When I was a 2Lt, I saluted 1Lt's. Was it a big deal. No. It is a military courtesy, and simply a military greeting. Did it hurt me? No.

When I was a 1Lt, if I didn't get saluted by a 2Lt, I didn't say anything. I really didn't care.

Now days, when walking toward enlisted, it seems the new, young airmen are taught to salute within some super close proximity to me. Screw that: when I figure out they're enlisted, and I'm at the range when would say "hey", I give them a salute. It's usually good for a laugh.

2

[Riddller]

The AF has a very different culture among officers/enlisted and how young officers are looked at/treated compared to other services (this comes from my buddy who's a Marine 1Lt). He's noticed that a lot of people, including enlisted, shit on LTs for being those idiots that just graduated college. I'm not complaining; in fact it seems warranted much of the time. His viewpoint is that in the Marines when you're an officer, even as a 2LT, you're held to the same regard/treated as such as say a Capt in the AF. There's just that difference b/w how the other services view rank, and the AF's majority viewpoint is that while a LT is an officer, they still don't know shit and thus are treated accordingly...not saying that's wrong, but that's just one Marine's view...

Another Marine's view: You're not as right as you think you are.

A butter bar is treated pretty much the same in every service, unless people know you're prior-E AND you're not a douche-bag.

And even then there's no gaurantee that you'll be treated a little better.

The Marine's are no different than the AF in this regard.

[HerkDerka]

People keep talking about how the shoeclerks must have polluted the flier's minds or somehow changed them into SNAPs. Reality says they were simply shoe clerks in flier's clothing.

Okay, I got what you were trying to say there.

The tanker (I'm assuming airlift as well) community is cool. The mobility career path, ie CRW, is anything but.

Well put.

HD

[spectre56]

The AF has a very different culture among officers/enlisted and how young officers are looked at/treated compared to other services (this comes from my buddy who's a Marine 1Lt). He's noticed that a lot of people, including enlisted, shit on LTs for being those idiots that just graduated college. I'm not complaining; in fact it seems warranted much of the time. His viewpoint is that in the Marines when you're an officer, even as a 2LT, you're held to the same regard/treated as such as say a Capt in the AF. There's just that difference b/w how the other services view rank, and the AF's majority viewpoint is that while a LT is an officer, they still don't know shit and thus are treated accordingly...not saying that's wrong, but that's just one Marine's view. In my opinion, it's usually not too bad, but there are some NCOs out there that feel it's their job to shit on the new LTs as much as possible...be respectful, but don't just let them walk all over you...you are an officer, act like it.

Another Marine's view: You're not as right as you think you are.

A butter bar is treated pretty much the same in every service, unless people know you're prior-E AND you're not a douche-bag.

And even then there's no gaurantee that you'll be treated a little better.

The Marine's are no different than the AF in this regard.

I don't think too many 2Lts know a whole lot in any branch of service. Yeah, some officers in one branch may be better equipped than others in another branch, but just because all 2Lts are idiots, doesn't give anyone the right or the privelege to shit on them. I saluted officers when I was enlisted because that is just what you do, like it or not. Some officers don't deserve the time of day...do I still salute them? Sure do, but i'm saluting the rank, not the person.

When I finally get commissioned as a 2Lt, you can bet your sweet ass that i'll salute anyone that outranks me, 1Lt and up. They have earned that rank (in my book) so I will give them the respect they deserve. When i'm a 1Lt, (Capt, Maj, etc), will I demand a salute from anyone lower than me? Nope...that's not what it's about. I will let them know in a tactful way that saluting a higher ranking officer is what your supposed to do, but I won't lock anyone up at the POA for it (unless it's blatent).

As far as the Academy grad is concerned, what a tool. That's certainly not how you EARN respect.

Just another Marine/future officer perspective, take it or leave it.

[slacker]

I am pretty sure that i lost a few IQ points reading this thread. Holy crap.

[Login Name]

slacker...i enjoy everytime you post b/c of your avatar. good job.

btw, how/why are we still talking about this? i think i've boiled this entire post down to this....

1. some people demand to be saluted by people they outrank, both pilots and nonpilots

2. some people don't care if they get saluted, both pilots and nonpilots

3. nobody will change their way by reading this post so...

what else is there really to discuss?

[jcollins]

I think a lot of you guys are putting way too much thought into this. I always played along with the Lts don't salute Lts, but mostly for practical reasons - it's hard to see the tint of the bar sometimes, and it's easier just to give a "what's up" to someone you know is your peer anyway. Enlisted folks, I have chided a couple airmen for blatant disregard and blowing me off, but usually I give people the benefit of the doubt. I know the times when I missed saluting an officer when I was an airman were embarrassing enough and I really didn't need to be chewed out about it. As for called NCOs "sir", I don't do it, simply because they earned the title "Sergeant", and they want to be called that. Chiefs especially, I would never call a Chief anything but "Chief" because the fact that they earned that title means more than a hundred "sirs" tossed their way. But that's just my take, you guys are officers, make up your own minds on the way you want to do things.

[Whitman]

Another Marine's view: You're not as right as you think you are.

A butter bar is treated pretty much the same in every service, unless people know you're prior-E AND you're not a douche-bag.

And even then there's no gaurantee that you'll be treated a little better.

The Marine's are no different than the AF in this regard.

I think Brabus was getting at the different expectations that other services have for their 2Lt's. For example, my marine buddies waiting for pilot training were in charge of platoons and had the opportunity to lead troops. You rarely see those opportunities in the AF. While there are some good learning opportunities as a casual in the AF, snako is more prevalent and leadership opportunities are close to zero.

Can we get back to making fun of Academy guys?

[Guest Boom]

There's something to be proud of.

Class act.

Thanks, I thought so myself.

[WeatherManC130]

I am pretty sure that i lost a few IQ points reading this thread. Holy crap.

I lost about 5 points looking at your dancing girl avatar

Wxman

[Guest Fogo]

slacker...i enjoy everytime you post b/c of your avatar. good job.

btw, how/why are we still talking about this? i think i've boiled this entire post down to this....

1. some people demand to be saluted by people they outrank, both pilots and nonpilots

2. some people don't care if they get saluted, both pilots and nonpilots

3. nobody will change their way by reading this post so...

what else is there really to discuss?

Amen.

Horse has been killed, beat, and turned into glue.

[Toro]

btw, how/why are we still talking about this?

Horse has been killed, beat, and turned into glue.

You guys kill me...Stop responding with "I wish this post would die" posts and the thread will die.

[pawnman]

I think Brabus was getting at the different expectations that other services have for their 2Lt's. For example, my marine buddies waiting for pilot training were in charge of platoons and had the opportunity to lead troops. You rarely see those opportunities in the AF. While there are some good learning opportunities as a casual in the AF, snako is more prevalent and leadership opportunities are close to zero.

Can we get back to making fun of Academy guys?

By all means.

I don't have a lot of experience, but in flight school, the folks that were the least helpful to the rest of the class were the Academy guys. They were consistently the whiners, the hoarders of knowledge, the guys who wouldn't pitch in and help out. And it was only the USAFA dudes, guys from the Naval Academy were some of the best guys to have in the class.

[Riddller]

I don't have a lot of experience, but in flight school, the folks that were the least helpful to the rest of the class were the Academy guys. They were consistently the whiners, the hoarders of knowledge, the guys who wouldn't pitch in and help out. And it was only the USAFA dudes, guys from the Naval Academy were some of the best guys to have in the class.

Wow...

Here we go again!

[Beaver]

I think the only thing left to talk about is Stiffler's tendency to chat with naked men in the gym locker room.

[Guest Jimmy]

This is the best thread I've ever read in my life, maybe except for the Deid thread.

[Guest JoeDoc]

Simple:

1. You do not salute the person (man) you salute the rank (Band of Brothers 101st Airborne)

2. Only in dreaded combat: WWI. WWII. Korea Vietnam and now: does a 0-1 rate much.

3. "How" one salutes is the key: main issue here

"How" does one salute?

Softly or "snap one out"?

Trust me one really salutes those ribbons, not the rank: one salutes those with "crows eyes" and the "thousand yard stare'.

The Army has the best 'way', salutes are rendered in "style"

In Army terms a salute without a "salutation" is just protocal: we say "all the way, SIR!", "Airborne"

it is no joke, no game but sincere:

no we do not 'salute" "butter bars" often with anything but reflex.

Sometimes: well it is earned. Obligated.

All lower ranks and that means officers must salute: but "get real" it is not the salute but how it is rendered.

It is "feedback' from the troops: if the salute is "sharp", it means one has promise as an officer.

lead, follow or get out of the way: Officers deserve a salute. PERIOD.

Then they have to earn such.

LT's saluting LT's: that is "incest" and is not a topic for my remarks.

Oh, me? been saluted and did render such.

Tis the military "hell' but if you do it right: it is tradition.

[Guest Xtndr50boom]

Huh? You lost me shortly after Band of Brothers

JK, learning has been had

[JeepGuyC17]

It's "fun" to use "quotes". Wouldn't you "agree"?

J/k, all in good fun