Stuttgart Info

[Toro]

I'm currently looking at a choice between Ramstein (USAFE) and Stuttgart (EUCOM). I've been to Ramstein many times and am familiar with the area, but know nothing about Stuttgart or EUCOM other than what I've been reading on Wikipedia and globalsecurity.org. If anybody here has been there - preferably in the last 6-9 years, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the location, culture, community, etc.

[Guest ShineR]

Its great!

Plenty of history and things to do, sites of interest are pretty close, great local breweries, HUGE beer festivals (the only bigger one is in Munich which is only a few hours away), many vineyards nearby, small community on the outskirts of the actual city, newly renovated officer housing (which is very nice on the inside), commute to BX/PX among other services (kinda sucks), International Airport close - HLX is based out of there so you can fly pretty much anywhere in Europe for dirt cheap, overall I love it there.

EUCOM is its own beast though...

[brickhistory]

Did an AEF (YGBFSM!) to EUCOM last winter.

Except for the weather which was 99% wet and gray during Jan - Apr, it was great! Lots of places to live, both on and off post with advantages to both. Buds stationed there did both options.

As noted, way easy to travel anywhere from the airport which is 15 mins from Patch Barracks.

EUCOM is very Army-centric from their staffing to their treatment of people, however, except for the special ops guys, the staff hours were bankers's hours.

Between Ramstein and Stuttgart, I'd pick Stuttgart.

[LJ Driver]

Location wise, either one is awesome. Ramstein has MANY more Americans then Stuttgart, so if your family or you wants more of the American feel and influence that's your place. You could go there and very easily not speak one word of German if you chose not to. Stuttgart is much more German, pretty much Bavarian actually and has an incredibly rich history. Great city center and lots of things to do. Munich is very close and the Porche factory is right near the city. My recommendation is to live off base and immerse yourself in the culture, but if your family doesn't want that then on base may be a better choice. Overall, I think you will be very happy at either place!

[Baseops.Net]

Stuttgart - hands down!

My bro was stationed there recently (and I went to visit) - fantastic area - truly a big city feel to it, but NOT the big military-town atmosphere that K-town has. Lots of stuff to do, excellent transportation system. One of the best Christmas Markets in all of Germany. Plus, more centrally located than Ramstein - so you are closer to Garmisch, Munich, etc. I would give one of deez nuts to get over there... Not to mention the joint staff credit at EUCOM (but, as I always say, location trumps all...)

[M2]

Toro

I am in Garmisch right now but heading to Innsbruck this morning to fly back to Texas. I go to Stuttgart on a regular basis, not only know but when I was stationed in Europe, and as BaseOps said it is better located for travel to the "better" parts of Europe (Black Forest, the Alps, etc). And with the new AAFES facilities at Panzer Kaserne, you don't have to head to Ramstein to shop. Either would rock, and as you know I did four years at Ramstein; but my bottom line is anywhere in Europe is a lucky break nowadays. Heck, I'd even go back to SHAPE given the opportunity...

Cheers! M2

[zrooster99]

Finally, a post I can reply to intelligently. Stuttgart is where I met my wife (an AF reservist), so my view may be skewed in the positive a bit. Stuttgart is actually in Schwaibia (some of the best heffewiese I've ever tasted), and though Ramstein (Landstul/Kaiserschlautern) has more Americans, Stuttgart is a bigger city with (as previously stated) more culture and more to do. Stuttgart was heavily bombed during the war, so there is actually an entire hill constructed from the rubble with a memorial (called rubble hill by the Americans). There are three former Wehrmacht barracks located in the city...Patch Barraks (where I spent my time), Panzer Kasern, and Kelley Barraks still in use by the US. So, there is a good bit of curio if you're a history buff. Lots of good beer halls, snitzel, and some of the best Thai food I've ever had (and I've had a lot) there as well. The other obvious advantage (if you care about the career aspect) is that EUCOM is a joint command. I still have POCs there (in SOCEUR, not EUCOM) and can send you pix if you're interested in more details. Slightly buzzed (still celebrating my 14 days off after my first 120 as a pilot), so apologize for the spelling.

TR/GD/SW

[Herk Driver]

Toro,

I'm at EUCOM now. Been here about a year. Most of the highlights were hit above. One correction, there is no "commute" to the BX/PX anymore; they just finished a new one at Panzer (6 months or so ago). The location is awesome. The job; not so much, sometimes. As was said, this is the Swabian area of Baden-Wurtemberg, but more Bavarian in feel than ETAR. Lots less Americans (16K or so versus the nearly 50K at ETAR). Much more of a big city feel versus the country atmosphere around K-town. Stuttgart is a very industrialized area (Porsche, IBM, HP, Mercedes) and therefore many more of the locals speak English than in some other areas. The summer has been dreary and wet, but the sun is back out and the rest of the summer to go, but the winter was mild this past year. I have been told that is not typical though. Unless you want in on the ground floor, I would avoid AFRICOM like the plague, right now. PM me with/for specifics. Not sure what job they are looking to send you to, but that may tip the scales for you from here to ETAR or vice-versa. The "joint" tour definitely has its drawbacks with the Army running this joint (pun intended). Unless you are up for CC after you get here, you will most likely serve out the entire 36 month tour versus leaving in 22 months.

Most on-post housing has been or is being renovated. It isn't bad but you can get a much larger place off-post and the OHA ceiling is fairly high. You can find a lot of nice places, that are not a bad commute, for at or under your OHA ceiling. If you have specific questions or need any more help, let me know.

FYI, If you PM me, I won't get back to you until Monday sometime since I'm headed out of town.

[Toro]

Awesome info so far, keep it coming. One thing I can't figure out is the actual configuration of the base(s)/post(s). I read something about "four facilities" that seemed to imply there were four different 'compunds'. Anybody smart on the facilities?

Also, how are the (DoD?) schools there? I'll have a first grader by the time I get there.

[Baseops.Net]

There are three former Wehrmacht barracks located in the city...Patch Barraks (where I spent my time), Panzer Kasern, and Kelley Barraks still in use by the US.

These are the three "posts" where our guys are stationed at (in different parts of the city).

[brickhistory]

Awesome info so far, keep it coming. One thing I can't figure out is the actual configuration of the base(s)/post(s). I read something about "four facilities" that seemed to imply there were four different 'compunds'. Anybody smart on the facilities?

Also, how are the (DoD?) schools there? I'll have a first grader by the time I get there.

From last year, my info:

Patch - compact base, EUCOM's HQ. If you've ever been to Osan, it reminded me of that. Yes, there are DoD schools on Patch - one of each (or was as of last May). To me, Patch was too condensed and crowded, but the family housing, from visiting with a friend and family, seemed pretty nice and newly renovated. Typical PX/Commissary/gas station/food court stuff. Gym closed at 2200 M-Th, 2000 on F-S. Library was pretty good. Easy bus transportation to train station then into Stuttgart itself. Lots of suburb towns from gate almost all the way to Kelley (see below). Advantage is a 5 min walk to work and back.

Panzer - new PX complex was being built, understand it's pretty mondo-sized now. There's at least an elementary school there. Don't know of other grades. Easy 10 minute drive to Patch.

Kelly - where I billetted in their hotel. Tiny commissary, decent gym, and that's it. It is primarily all family housing with lots of renovation going on at the time. Quite area for family with lots of hiking/walking/biking trails. Small villages nearby, airport as well. If I were going to live on base, I'd pick there. About a 20 minute drive from Patch. Upscale entertainment complex about 1/4 mile away - casino, Irish pub, nice restaurants, theatre, shopping, etc. Mercedes World HQ is there; their museum is downtown. The Museum is way cool

However, if I were to PCS there, I'd live off base. As noted above, some great houses available for rent around the area. The area is also big for horses if you're into that (sts).

Robinson Barracks is/was also in the area, but across town. Never went there.

Edited to add: The Schwabian food is fantastic; it is meat and potato or dumpling heaven. Discovered German red wine there as well. Obviously, the whites like Reisling, etc are well known, but the local red wine is amazing. If you like a sweeter wine, try it, it rocks!

Edited July 14, 2007 by brickhistory

[zrooster99]

Right, RB (Robinson Barracks) is the 4th post, and the one that I didn't mention. RB is housing only, and where my wife actually stayed while she was there. Therefore, I know a lot of the restaurants in that area...Jager Hoff...very good venison, a pub with HUGE schnitzels (and very good), hunder hut, good Chinese, some good Italian etc... As mentioned, there is a Porsche assembly plant there, and along with it a small Porsche racing museum (not bad, but very small). Very easy to travel by rail around the area, but a car is highly recommended for a long stay...of course you could buy a brand new BMW, Mercedes or Porsche tax free and for a discount ($60,000 for a base Carrera when I checked 3 years ago).

[M2]

Actually, doesn't RB still have a somewhat large shoppette? But it is a long commute from Patch (45 min?), and not one I would bother with during the week.

Also, there is a small one on Kelly, at least there still was when I worked Flexible Response there in Oct/Nov 05.

And where the BX at Panzer is a great improvement over the old facilities on Patch, I would only consider it an "average" AAFES facility. The two major BX/PXs in the KMC offer a much wider selection of goods, and is only a two-hour drive away. Plus Heidelberg is only an hour or so, and there is/was a mid-sized PX there as well.

As for schools, Patch has an elementary school. I don't have any firsthand experience with DoDDS at EUCOM, but if you need more info let me know and I will see if any of my EUCOM buds can provide some gouge.

Cheers! M2

[Herk Driver]

All my comments are in italics, in the text.

From last year, my info:

Patch - compact base, EUCOM's HQ. If you've ever been to Osan, it reminded me of that. Yes, there are DoD schools on Patch - one of each (or was as of last May). To me, Patch was too condensed and crowded, but the family housing, from visiting with a friend and family, seemed pretty nice and newly renovated. Typical PX/Commissary/gas station/food court stuff. Gym closed at 2200 M-Th, 2000 on F-S. Library was pretty good. Easy bus transportation to train station then into Stuttgart itself. Lots of suburb towns from gate almost all the way to Kelley (see below). Advantage is a 5 min walk to work and back. The area you will work on if assigned to EUCOM. PX here is closed, due to Panzer PX opening. I have to disagree with M2 on this one. We were going to KMC once every month or two originally to get those things we couldn't find on post or in the local economy. We don't have to do that since the PX opened. Probably average compared to an AF base BX stateside, but fairly good for over here. Gym is average but has been renovated in the past two years or so. Shoppette here is open 24 hours and one of two places AAFES has gas (other is Kelley). Food court has stayed due to the workforce being here. Newly renovated theater with stadium seating. For Army standards this is top of the line. Patch has an Elementary and High School. Commissary here is closed on Mondays, but other outlying commissaries are open M-F.

Panzer - new PX complex was being built, understand it's pretty mondo-sized now. There's at least an elementary school there. Don't know of other grades. Easy 10 minute drive to Patch. Panzer has Boblingen Elementary and Middle School. Of all the schools, BEMS is probably the best of them all. I'm sure there are others who will disagree. The MS was added last year and is still up in the air as to whether it will stay or not. Older gym here. Also, a shoppette along with clothing sales. Small commissary that is open M-F.

Kelly - where I billetted in their hotel. Tiny commissary, decent gym, and that's it. It is primarily all family housing with lots of renovation going on at the time. Quite area for family with lots of hiking/walking/biking trails. Small villages nearby, airport as well. If I were going to live on base, I'd pick there. About a 20 minute drive from Patch. Upscale entertainment complex about 1/4 mile away - casino, Irish pub, nice restaurants, theatre, shopping, etc. Mercedes World HQ is there; their museum is downtown. The Museum is way cool. Kelley is the new HQ for AFRICOM and NATO SOF Center. Lots of people are moving over there. All housing here is shut down for renovation, so can't live on base there. At least not right now. Very close to the airport (5-10 min), but where I live in Boblingen, I am only 15-20 minutes to the airport and 10 minutes to work (Patch). No schools here. Small Shoppette. All facilities have very limited hours after normal duty hours. Kelley has the only other AAFES gas pumps. You can buy coupons and use them at any ESSO. Commissary is small but open M-F.

However, if I were to PCS there, I'd live off base. As noted above, some great houses available for rent around the area. The area is also big for horses if you're into that (sts). If you live off base here, where you live determines which schools your kid/s will attend; not where you work. There is a .pdf file that shows the breakdown. I will try to find it and PM you with it.

Robinson Barracks is/was also in the area, but across town. Never went there. Robinson Barracks is about 45 minutes across town. It has public roads running through it. It has a Consolidated Exchange (BX/Commissary). We had to go a couple of times to find Christmas presents before the new BX opened. Haven't been there since. Robinson also has an Elementary and Middle School.

Edited to add: The Schwabian food is fantastic; it is meat and potato or dumpling heaven. Discovered German red wine there as well. Obviously, the whites like Reisling, etc are well known, but the local red wine is amazing. If you like a sweeter wine, try it, it rocks!

[pcola]

Also, how are the (DoD?) schools there? I'll have a first grader by the time I get there.

I'm currently at Ramstein and travel to Stuttgart frequently. I don't really have much else to add about the location. Pretty much concur w/everything else said.

One more thing for you to consider. First grade is the perfect age for you to immerse your child in the local culture. Throw him/her into the German school system, he'll pick up the language in no time. A guy in my squadron went through the exact same thing. His parents were mil (neither spoke German) and they put him in a German school around the first grade. He spent 6 years in Germany as a kid before moving back to the States and still speaks German like a local. If you're interested, you can PM me and I'll give you his .mil email.

[Guest SPO]

Anyone stationed at Stuttgart? I'm deploying to AFRICOM for 6 months and looking for some info on what to bring, where to stay, etc.

Thanks!

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Anyone stationed at Stuttgart? I'm deploying to AFRICOM for 6 months and looking for some info on what to bring, where to stay, etc.

Thanks!

Are you going to Headquarters or the Horn? You rate Per Diem and that all that matters.

[brickhistory]

If staying TDY in Stuttgart, press HARD for a rental, and work to get to the Kelly Hotel on Kelly Barracks (Kelley?). 20 min drive Kelly to Patch.

The TDY dorms on Patch suck, plus they can/have cut per diem since there's an Army chow hall on post. Then you have the hassle of missed meals, etc. It's way convenient to be on Patch, but depending on your work cycle, it can suck.

I've heard Panzer is also good, but never stayed there. Also close to Patch. Avoid Robinson.

Rental car is the key.

[Herk Driver]

If staying TDY in Stuttgart, press HARD for a rental, and work to get to the Kelly Hotel on Kelly Barracks (Kelley?). 20 min drive Kelly to Patch.

I've heard Panzer is also good, but never stayed there. Also close to Patch. Avoid Robinson.

Rental car is the key.

If you are going to AFRICOM, you will work on Kelley, not Patch. I guess there are a few people working at Patch, but probably not you. If you get a non-A, try to stay at the Millennium. Super nice hotel and close to Kelley (less than a 10 min walk).

Panzer has no TDY lodging.

Ditto on the other info.

I'm at EUCOM and multiple things at AFRICOM are changing on a daily/weekly basis. Probably better to get info directly from someone at AFRICOM and there are several on this board.

[Guest SPO]

Thanks fellas. I appreciate the info.

[brickhistory]

If you get a non-A, try to stay at the Millennium. Super nice hotel and close to Kelley (less than a 10 min walk).

2

Uber $$ though. Nice restaurants (good Irish Pub as well), casino, theatres (if you sprechen), some open fields/hiking trails/woods. Again, two year old gouge - hence no clue on the AFRICOM at Kelley, sorry for the bum steer.

Get the rental car, however.

[dmeg130]

For all you future AFRICOM-ers:

SPO-hope you'll get regular billeting; Kelley Hotel not bad, but Millenium and SI Suites rock. Except I've heard rumors that incoming TDYers may be getting shacked up together in apartments, ala Khobar (for you old guys). There's a ton of people coming in right now, and not many places to put them. And we don't have any more money. Kind of sucks, but I'm sure we can find somebody at Balad who'd be willing to trade.

Things to bring: 1) a laptop. Wireless is expensive as hell in the hotels (except Kelley, where it's free), but most of the bases have free wireless at the BX/bowling alley/etc. 2) A jacket. It's going to be cold as hell in about two months. Plus you'll want to go skiing. 3) An extra liver. Oktoberfest starts 20 Sep. The Stuttgart Cannstatter Volksfest starts the week after that. Then the Christmas markets. Then Springfests. 4) flight suit or ABUs. Have yet to see/hear anybody take any grief over any unifrom stuff here. Only time I've ever ever seen a reflective belt was Army PT formation running on Patch.

I'd like to personally extend an invitation to anybody in town to PM me or Herk Driver; we'll do what we can to make you feel welcome (dimed you out, G). I'll also make a plug for AFRICOM: we are working our asses off, and probably will for a long time. If you want a chance to come to Europe and actually do something productive (instead of occupying space over at EUCOM), we need all the help we can get. Particularly those with tac/strat air and SOF experience, or previous joint staff experience.

[Herk Driver]

I'd like to personally extend an invitation to anybody in town to PM me or Herk Driver; we'll do what we can to make you feel welcome (dimed you out, G).

That's alright. No problem with helping a brother out. I'll be back from CONUS just in time to hit Volksfest.

If you want a chance to come to Europe and actually do something productive (instead of occupying space over at EUCOM), we need all the help we can get. Particularly those with tac/strat air and SOF experience, or previous joint staff experience.

Although that was a little bit of a low-blow. You must have been hanging out with Col Martha McSally.

4) flight suit or ABUs. Have yet to see/hear anybody take any grief over any unifrom stuff here. Only time I've ever ever seen a reflective belt was Army PT formation running on Patch.

2. Plus the CoS over there is a war-fighter not a queep producer.