HuggyU2 Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 Anyone here going? If so, look for the guy wearing the "Huggy" nametag, and say hi. After hours, try Fratello's, Acey Deucey, or Charcoal Pit. 1
MT near Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 Anyone here going? If so, look for the guy wearing the "Huggy" nametag, and say hi. After hours, try Fratello's, Acey Deucey, or Charcoal Pit. went a few years ago....good time. Wanted to go and visit the Aviat booth this year, but too busy.
PapaJu Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 went a few years ago....good time. Wanted to go and visit the Aviat booth this year, but too busy. Yep, also went a couple of years ago. Hope to return again soon.
Guest Tertle Posted July 26, 2007 Posted July 26, 2007 Boy do I want to go. If I could rummage together the money for a hotel on saturday night I'd probably be there. I'd love to see an f-22 and su-31 fly on the same day above the same field!
ACCBoomer Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Today was a bad day for 2 ships . The Mustangs mentioned above and the choppers in Phoenix. Jim Cox from the Channel 3 chopper was a friend of mine from the days I was stationed at Luke. He loved flying helicopters... We both used to hang out at the drag races in our off time. RIP buddy...
yerfer Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 Today was a bad day for 2 ships . The Mustangs mentioned above and the choppers in Phoenix. Jim Cox from the Channel 3 chopper was a friend of mine from the days I was stationed at Luke. He loved flying helicopters... We both used to hang out at the drag races in our off time. RIP buddy... Its everywhere here in AZ right now. Sad stuff. I've actually seen one of the pilots out at Williamsfield a few times. RIP
Hacker Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 One great man lost in the Mustang crash, too. A pretty ugly scene.
yerfer Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 One great man lost in the Mustang crash, too. A pretty ugly scene. Were you there? Is their footage anywhere to see what happened?
ACCBoomer Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 What is going on? I hear everything goes in 3's, but to this point we have 5 aircraft and 4 lives lost in 24 hours? Today Jim Leroy passed on while performing at dayton. He will be missed...
Guest FlyingNetminder Posted July 28, 2007 Posted July 28, 2007 (edited) What is going on? I hear everything goes in 3's, but to this point we have 5 aircraft and 4 lives lost in 24 hours? Today Jim Leroy passed on while performing at dayton. He will be missed... 2 This sure has been a shitty weekend for aviation. Oshkosh typically loses at least one per year - with that many planes and some less-than capable pilots in congested airspace, it's bound to happen. Thing is, all of these guys, from Oshkosh to Phoenix to Dayton were experienced dudes. It's especially disgusting that all of them were caught on tape. Edited July 28, 2007 by FlyingNetminder
Herk Driver Posted July 29, 2007 Posted July 29, 2007 This sure has been a shitty weekend for aviation. Oshkosh typically loses at least one per year - with that many planes and some less-than capable pilots in congested airspace, it's bound to happen. Thing is, all of these guys, from Oshkosh to Phoenix to Dayton were experienced dudes. It's especially disgusting that all of them were caught on tape. I disagree--there are lots of airshows that have tons of exhibits and great aerial demos and have no fatalities...it's only bound to happen if the plan doesn't cover the contingencies. I sat through the flying brief at RIAT 2001 at RAF Cottesmore when I had the opportunity to go. The plan had the aerial demo show line over the top of the audience...a clear violation of the rules with respect to placement of the show line to ensure that, IF, something happened that it was less likely that the crash would go into crowd. One of the pilots called BS right then and there and the line was moved to ensure crowd safety. I know that we aren't talking about a crash going into a crowd yesterday, thank goodness, but having rules that everyone acknowledges, understands, and abides by are one of the keys to a safe airshow. As far as I know, none of the crashes yesterday appear to be the result of mechanical malfunction or neccessarily violations of the demo rules. This is not meant to be a critique, in any way, of any of the people that were involved in the unfortunate mishaps from yesterday. I know that accidents happen...that's the nature of flying, but it is not inevitable that someone is going to die at an airshow. I don't think that any airshow organizer goes into an airshow thinking that a crash is bound to happen this weekend, so let's do what we can, but... I've been to airshows in the states, Sweden, England, Germany, Poland, and Moscow and have been fortunate to have not been at one that has had a mishap. Mishaps are not inevitable; most are preventable. Once again, don't take this as a damnation of the folks that lost their lives yesterday, it is not. I just have heartburn with the idea that these mishaps are inevitable and there is nothing one can do to prevent them. Whatever the cause of each of these, here's to the pilots, the crews and their loved ones... A Toast.
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted July 29, 2007 Posted July 29, 2007 I disagree--there are lots of airshows that have tons of exhibits and great aerial demos and have no fatalities...it's only bound to happen if the plan doesn't cover the contingencies. I know that accidents happen...that's the nature of flying, but it is not inevitable that someone is going to die at an airshow. I just have heartburn with the idea that these mishaps are inevitable and there is nothing one can do to prevent them. I agree with you in general, however... Have you ever been to Oshkosh? EAA AirVenture is not like a standard airshow. People crashing is not uncommon there. That place is a madhouse.
Guest AV8RAHL Posted July 29, 2007 Posted July 29, 2007 (edited) Have you ever been to Oshkosh? EAA AirVenture is not like a standard airshow. People crashing is not uncommon there. That place is a madhouse.A total madhouse....approximately 05% of the United States population is represented at the air show, arriving in around 10,000 separate aircraft, with volunteers contributing more than 2,000 hours marshalling aircraft for runway 9-27. Here's some more useless information for you: approximately 1,100 portable toilets are supplied for the event, and EAA estimates that more than 2 million sheets of toilet paper are used. Edited July 29, 2007 by AV8RAHL
flynhigh Posted July 30, 2007 Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) Were you there? Is their footage anywhere to see what happened? Unfortunately, I was there. Sad day... It appeared they were landing in formation and the guy on the wing (Gerard S. Beck of Wahpeton, ND) didn't slow down in time, or the lead (Casey Odegaard) slowed too quickly. Beck then contacted the rear half of Odegaard's aircraft and then rolled and cartwheeled. Footage here... P-51 collision Edited July 30, 2007 by flynhigh
brabus Posted July 30, 2007 Posted July 30, 2007 That place is a madhouse. Definitely is a "non-standard" airshow. Last year (I think), a Corsair's prop "chewed" through an RV-4 while taxing, killing one guy in the RV. Stuff like this unfortunately is much more likely to happen at something like AirVenture than it is at a "traditional" airshow.
StoleIt Posted July 31, 2007 Posted July 31, 2007 I'm no expert, but after watching the video it looks like the 2nd P-51 carried to much airspeed into the landing and just ran into the back of the first one.
HuggyU2 Posted August 1, 2007 Author Posted August 1, 2007 Last year (I think), a Corsair's prop "chewed" through an RV-4 while taxing, killing one guy in the RV.It was a TBM Avenger and an RV-6.I'm no expert, but after watching the video it looks like the 2nd P-51 carried to much airspeed into the landing and just ran into the back of the first one.There's probably a bit more to it than that.
Steve Davies Posted August 1, 2007 Posted August 1, 2007 Interesting that Aero TV tries to justify showing the footage in the interests of 'keeping the rumour mill at bay', when the reality is that showing the footage is actually more likely to fuel that rumour mill, as well it knows. Why can't they just grow a pair of balls and say, 'we are showing this footage because we are a media outlet and that's our job', rather than make excuses? Beaver The centreline may well be a brick wall, but from this angle is it possible to tell who crossed it?
Hacker Posted August 2, 2007 Posted August 2, 2007 Centerline's a brick wall... That's a great briefing item, but you and I both know that midairs have and continue to happen during formation flying regardless of the skill and experience of the pilots involved. Rules are the rules, true, but without knowing the situation it's impossible to pass such simple judgment. We don't know if the flight controls on the P-51A jammed at just the wrong time...or perhaps there was a wind gust...or any number of other factors outside your implication that it was pure pilot error. Even if it was pure pilot error...what, then? I've seen mid-airs during formation work with highly trained and experienced pilots, too. Howzabout the Thunderbird midair last year or the year before in Chicago where #4's right missile rail came off? Ever seen the movie "Threshold", which shows the 1971 Blue Angels in training at El Centro in F-4s and there's a wingtip bent up because #2 and #3 hit each other? These are just examples that happen to be caught on film... So, you can have all the training rules, training, experience, and detailed briefings you want and things like this can still happen.
Beaver Posted August 2, 2007 Posted August 2, 2007 I was just highlighting that "Centerline's a brick wall..." is just another platitude that everyone briefs but doesn't really make any sense. And Steve, it's "centER" not "centRE." I can't understand you when you don't type in American.
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 Even if it was pure pilot error...what, then? What then? Then you assign the buffoonery where it belongs and call it what it is. Simple. I have never been a fan of excusing pilot error. I've also never understood people who defend a pilot who screwed up and act like it's a cardinal sin to do so.
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I was just highlighting that "Centerline's a brick wall..." is just another platitude that everyone briefs but doesn't really make any sense. Makes sense to me. I expect you to take it into the dirt and wreck your own jet instead of running into me and wrecking two...if you have a choice.
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