Beaver Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 "I expect you to take it into the dirt and..." I think that's a better way to put it than the old standby.
Hacker Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 What then? Then you assign the buffoonery where it belongs and call it what it is. Simple. I have never been a fan of excusing pilot error. I've also never understood people who defend a pilot who screwed up and act like it's a cardinal sin to do so. I'm in the same boat as you are, Rainman. Don't misconstrue my comments to mean that I was somehow against an accusation of pilot error. My point WAS that regardless of who you are or what you have done, shit happens in high performance aviaton. Nobody is immune to that.
HuggyU2 Posted August 3, 2007 Author Posted August 3, 2007 What then? Then you assign the buffoonery where it belongs and call it what it is. Simple. I have never been a fan of excusing pilot error. I've also never understood people who defend a pilot who screwed up and act like it's a cardinal sin to do so. Merriam-Webster: "buffoonery": foolish or playful behavior or practice. If these guys did an unbriefed maneuver, and one that is generally prohibited at Oshkosh, then that's foolish, and it's a flight discipline issue. Now, I don't know this is the case, so don't assume I do. However, I've got enough tailwheel time to know that you can do your best, and still have things get away from you on the runway. If that happens with another aircraft in close proximity, folks will get hurt and fabric will get torn. Did #1 drift in front of #2 on this landing? It's hard to tell from the video, and I don't know the answer. As for "excusing pilot error", that's bit of a misnomer. We've been down this path before, but the bottom line is that many pilots have died, and those of us still alive have had the luxury of sitting back and saying "If they only would have done it this way, it would have been ok." I've seen jets get bent and folks hurt --- and so have you ---- in situations where I wouldn't call it "buffoonery". Other times, it occured when pilots did things that were not very smart: I suppose you could call it "buffoonery". Me, I do excuse pilot error, at least with professional pilots. I don't "make excuses". I recognize that God didn't make me, my mobile, or my wingman perfect,... and that they will err. We debrief it, learn, and move on. To not "excuse it" implies that I take it personally. Unless it's someone doing something unprofessional and undisciplined, I'll let it go after it's debriefed. However, if it's a flight discipline issue, then the story just begins to develop.
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I'm in the same boat as you are, Rainman. Don't misconstrue my comments to mean that I was somehow against an accusation of pilot error. My point WAS that regardless of who you are or what you have done, shit happens in high performance aviaton. Nobody is immune to that. Fair enough. I agree shit happens and most people are not perfect. I'm just saying when that "shit" is the fault of the pilot you call it exactly what it is. I think we're aligned on that but there are lots of people who act as if they took an oath to defend the pilot whenever there's a mishap. Fighter pilot's prayer: "God, I don't care if I die, just don't let me screw up."
Guest Rainman A-10 Posted August 3, 2007 Posted August 3, 2007 I've seen jets get bent and folks hurt --- and so have you ---- in situations where I wouldn't call it "buffoonery". Yes, I've seen mx related mishaps where the jet goes out of control and there was nothing the pilot could've done. Mx related mishaps where things went wrong but could've been handled by the pilot but were not...buffonery. Me, I do excuse pilot error, at least with professional pilots... We debrief it, learn, and move on. To not "excuse it" implies that I take it personally. Noted. I agree that you debrief it but I'm not sure what you mean by "move on." If there is no real harm, like an untintentional release that hits somewhere on the range, sure. If you hurt someone, no way I can just "debrief it and move on." You can say that's taking it personally if you want. I call it holding people accountable.
HuggyU2 Posted August 4, 2007 Author Posted August 4, 2007 (edited) Yes, I've seen mx related mishaps where the jet goes out of control and there was nothing the pilot could've done. Mx related mishaps where things went wrong but could've been handled by the pilot but were not...buffonery. Noted. I agree that you debrief it but I'm not sure what you mean by "move on." If there is no real harm, like an untintentional release that hits somewhere on the range, sure. If you hurt someone, no way I can just "debrief it and move on." You can say that's taking it personally if you want. I call it holding people accountable. No argument there, Rainman,... you're right. I think you and I mean the same thing ---- 90% of the time anyways,---- it's just "semantics" or the way we type things out on the keyboard. You tend to be a bit more "hardcore" on this type of thing than I do: not that that's good or bad, just different, and probably a function of our aviation upbringing. Like I said, after re-reading this, I think we just word it differently. Edited August 4, 2007 by Huggyu2
Whitman Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Anyone going this year? I imagine the crowd will be smaller than normal with avgas hovering around $5-6/gallon. I'm gonna try to make my way up there for the weekend.
Stiffler Posted July 29, 2008 Posted July 29, 2008 Ill be there 31 July to 4 Aug with the lovely tanker. My last TDY as a dual qualified pilot, till I take a new position....so...gonna be fun
MilitaryToFinance Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 I have friends who go every year. Look for Cincinnati Miss and they usually take either Tweety, a yellow AT-6, or a blue TBM-3 Avenger, don't remember its name. I've gotten to fly in the P-51, absolutely amazing. If somebody could find a way to legally get the owner up in a pointy nosed jet I bet he would reciprocate with some time in the Mustang. He's a pretty cool guy.
Guest Buzzkill Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 First off, I got owned at work today asking my buds if they heard about the 'stang crash at Oshkosh. LoL Second, did you already know how to fly a mustang? That looks like a single seat..
MilitaryToFinance Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 It's actually 2 seater. They removed all the shielding and some other things from behind the pilot's seat and added a second seat and basic instruments/controls. Unless you see inside the cockpit or see two people in it you wouldn't know the difference. I've watched it transform from being just a body with no wings to this state and its been a pretty incredible restoration. They've had an FG-1 Corsair all stripped down to be restored for a couple years now but keep getting sidetracked. Bought a B-25 that was supposed to be in flying condition but when it showed up it was spewing oil all over the place so they had to fix it up a bit. Life is just rough for some people isn't it?
Guest Buzzkill Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Huh, that's pretty cool although how do you get into the back seat? Must be an akward climb in there!
MilitaryToFinance Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 It is kind of awkward getting in and out but I certainly wasn't complaining.
Insubordinate & Churlish Posted July 30, 2008 Posted July 30, 2008 Anyone going this year? I imagine the crowd will be smaller than normal with avgas hovering around $5-6/gallon. I'm gonna try to make my way up there for the weekend. My dad's got the Cessna 140 parked in the Classics section and says that the crowds looks as large as usual. Wish I could be there.
Guest Buzzkill Posted August 3, 2008 Posted August 3, 2008 It is kind of awkward getting in and out but I certainly wasn't complaining. Hey we have a P51 out at my work right now with a back seat in it! I would have never known except I watched a guy get in the back. It even had the fuel cap for the aux tank that should have been there.
Nineline Posted April 17, 2009 Posted April 17, 2009 Any early planners out there for AirVenture 2009? I've deconflicted my calendar so that I can make the trip up this summer, and I'm curious if anyone else here is considering going too. Also, this will be my first time flying a GA plane into Oshkosh (I went a few years ago, but I drove instead.) If I flew in mid-week, would I run into any problems than if I flew in prior to day 1? Does the place ever fill up to where they won't let anymore planes in? Maybe those of you who've flown in before can offer some lessons learned from your first visit... -9-
AC-172 Posted April 17, 2009 Posted April 17, 2009 I'll be there, never flown in though. One day though. Just learned today though that the A380 will be there.
StoleIt Posted April 17, 2009 Posted April 17, 2009 Any early planners out there for AirVenture 2009? I've deconflicted my calendar so that I can make the trip up this summer, and I'm curious if anyone else here is considering going too. Also, this will be my first time flying a GA plane into Oshkosh (I went a few years ago, but I drove instead.) If I flew in mid-week, would I run into any problems than if I flew in prior to day 1? Does the place ever fill up to where they won't let anymore planes in? Maybe those of you who've flown in before can offer some lessons learned from your first visit... -9- I've heard that its really helpful to fly there with someone who has done it before. They use lots of landmarks for aircraft to circle over then they just call out "yellow Cessna cleared to land, red dot" or something along those lines. They have three large dots on the runway and thats your aim point. They land 3 aircraft simultaneously on the same runway. I'd say there should be an FAQ or a phone line you can call about the logistics of getting there early.
rv10 Posted April 17, 2009 Posted April 17, 2009 Also, this will be my first time flying a GA plane into Oshkosh (I went a few years ago, but I drove instead.) If I flew in mid-week, would I run into any problems than if I flew in prior to day 1? The answer is, it depends...... What aircraft are you flying in with? If you are flying in an experimental, warbird, or a vintage (older than 1970) parking is usually not a problem. Although last year Area 51 (RV parking) almost filled up. If you are in a current model spam can, then it's a roll of the dice Sunday through Wednesday. Usually a good number of folks start to leave Wednesday morning, which opens up parking. Does the place ever fill up to where they won't let anymore planes in? Yes, but like I stated above, it depends on what you are flying. You could also go to Appleton or Fond du Lac and take a shuttle. You can request the notam on eaa.org, which explains what you need to know. Also, make sure you have somebody in the right seat too. You'll need the extra eyes.
kapilot Posted April 17, 2009 Posted April 17, 2009 (edited) Any early planners out there for AirVenture 2009? I've deconflicted my calendar so that I can make the trip up this summer, and I'm curious if anyone else here is considering going too. Also, this will be my first time flying a GA plane into Oshkosh (I went a few years ago, but I drove instead.) If I flew in mid-week, would I run into any problems than if I flew in prior to day 1? Does the place ever fill up to where they won't let anymore planes in? Maybe those of you who've flown in before can offer some lessons learned from your first visit... -9- Ninline They're right a lot of it depends, but if your going in a day before the event starts you'll prob be ok. Last years attendance was a slightly down (or at least it seemed) beacuase of the economy and parking wasn't as much of an issue. I would advise take someone with you whos done it before also, but if not no big deal. You can fly in and out during the event but only at certain windows throughout the day otherwise you'll be turned back. You need to get on the airventure website and start reading. It is almost ridiclious how organized this event is. Also order the airventure NOTAM as soon as you can and start studying landmarks and procedures for your aircraft. Between the NOTAM and their website all your questions should be anwsered. https://www.airventure.org/flying/ Edited April 17, 2009 by kapilot
HuggyU2 Posted April 21, 2009 Author Posted April 21, 2009 I'll be there again, flying in. Wouldn't miss it. There's an IFR slot reservation system you can use too, but can't remember much about it.
Nineline Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 After doing some initial planning on my trip to Oshkosh this year, it looks like I may have an open seat in the airplane that I'll be taking up there. Are there any BaseOp'ers here who live in or near Missouri who want to go to Oshkosh and would like to cost-share? I'll also consider dudes who live along the route (GPS direct from Missouri to Oshkosh) and those who don't live near Missouri but can travel at their own expense to somewhere near me. PM me for more info. If you're taking my offer seriously, please include your .mil email address and the closest GA airport to you in your PM. -9-
isuguy1234 Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 After doing some initial planning on my trip to Oshkosh this year, it looks like I may have an open seat in the airplane that I'll be taking up there. Are there any BaseOp'ers here who live in or near Missouri who want to go to Oshkosh and would like to cost-share? I'll also consider dudes who live along the route (GPS direct from Missouri to Oshkosh) and those who don't live near Missouri but can travel at their own expense to somewhere near me. PM me for more info. If you're taking my offer seriously, please include your .mil email address and the closest GA airport to you in your PM. -9- Where in MO are you leaving from?
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