Ops and Maintenance officially combine

[Right Seat Driver]

Just came across this on af.mil.

Leaders consider returning maintainers to flying squadrons

[Butters]

Just came across this on af.mil.

Leaders consider returning maintainers to flying squadrons

It is the typical AF cycle... Someone needs an OPR bullet so they change things back to the way they were. This is the way they used to do business, if they do change it, give it ten years and they will change it back again.

The are good and bad things about putting MX in the OG.

[Mambo]

About damn time! I'd like to see them bring back the DCM also.

[Guest Boom]

Worst idea ever, and some MX Officers are about to have a shitfit cause there goes their command opportunities.

[Herk Driver]

Change for the sake of change. Again.

[Guest HercengTN]

I think it will deminish the void between mx/ops. In my experience that "void" or middleman between mx/ops has created alot of he said she said BS. If we were one squadron everyone would have to answer to each other and not blame it on the flyers or MX. My two pennies. (this icon needs a right hand so he can salute correctly,technique only)

Edited August 11, 2007 by HercengTN

[Clayton Bigsby]

I think it will deminish the void between mx/ops. In my experience that "void" or middleman between mx/ops has created alot of he said she said BS. If we were one squadron everyone would have to answer to each other and not blame it on the flyers or MX. My two pennies. (this icon needs a right hand so he can salute correctly,technique only)

Having worked both sides of the fence, I agree wholeheartedly. We have enough agencies trying to blame aircrews in the delayed departure game; it might be nice to get Mx back on our side.

[Guest f16wolf]

And...there was much rejoicing!!

[Guest Cam]

And...there was much rejoicing!!

Two. We got A LOT more done when MX worked for Ops instead of the other way around...

[TacAirCoug]

Change for the sake of change. Again.

Not according to the CSAF (3rd paragraph down):

This isn't just change for change sake

Sure, Mike.

[HerkDerka]

Interesting.

I think overall the revert could work. It'd be nice to see and end to the blame game.

some MX Officers are about to have a shitfit cause there goes their command opportunities.

1) E's run the mx career field.

2) Mx officers can't lead their way out of a wet paper bag.

3) Even with CDM positions, there isn't a lot of chance for advancement anway. If you want command opportunities, don't become a mx officer.

HD

[Clayton Bigsby]

If you want command opportunities, don't become a mx officer.

Weren't a very large percentage of the LTs axed under force shaping Mx officers? So it could even be said that want employment opportunites, don't go mx.

Also a good number of those axed were prior E's with the "E" suffix; ie O-2E...the justification by AFPC was that it costs more to pay them in the long term. However, that directly leads to the aforementioned wet paper bag issue, and yup seen that too. Seen some good, but a fair bit bad.

[Dead Last]

Like was previously said, it sure would be nice to get rid of the "Late Take off for MX/Ops/etc..." One of my biggest pet peeves is having someone recording the times for when the E's step to the plane, when the O's step to the plane and who's going to eat the late take off. I wasn't around when Ops and Mx separated so maybe some Old Heads could shed some light on this.

Cheers

[pawnman]

Seems to work for the Navy and Marines.

[JarheadBoom]

Seems to work for the Navy and Marines.

Works VERY WELL for the Marines.

[Dstar]

Speaking from the Marine/Navy way of doing things, it works. Pilots are the Maintenance Division Officers (QA, Flightline, Power Plants, Airframes, etc)in the line Squadrons. The Maintenance Officer in a line Squadron is also an aviator. In every Group (equiv to a wing in the USAF) there is a Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron (MALS), which is commanded by a "professional" Maintenance Officer who started life in a line Squadron as the Maintenance Material Control Officer. MALS provides intermediate level maintenance for all the Group's Squadrons. The other bonus of having mechanics in the Squadron in the helicopter world is the Aerial Observer. They are mechanics that have volunteered to fly as an additional duty on top of performing maintenance. So when you are away from home and you break down, you have a Mech on board the aircraft who can fix the problem and therefore complete the mission.

[Guest Boom]

The other bonus of having mechanics in the Squadron in the helicopter world is the Aerial Observer. They are mechanics that have volunteered to fly as an additional duty on top of performing maintenance. So when you are away from home and you break down, you have a Mech on board the aircraft who can fix the problem and therefore complete the mission.

Tankers and Airlift have those too, known as Flying Crew Chiefs. If it's something that the Chief can't fix and you need a Specialist then the home AMXS will send a Maintenance Recovery Team (MRT) to where you're at to fix it (or get you airborne so you can fly home and have it fixed).

[MKopack]

As an old AGS/AMU guy, I never had the opportunity to work at homebase, 'directly' for a flying squadron, but did get to see a lot of OPS Command vs. MX Supervision standoffs - while we on the flightline were standing around (or more likely riding around in the bread truck...) with broke jets waiting for someone, anyone, to make the call.

On the other hand, when we went from Torrejon to the Gulf back in 90-91 as the first squadron to deploy to Qatar, one of the first things that was done was to throw a lot of the standard chain of command right out the window (or tent flap, as it were...) In doing so we cut out the middleman and there were a lot of times that the lines of communication went directly from 0-5/6 straight to E-4 (and vice versa.) If either of us needed to know something, or needed a quick decision, we were able to go directly to the ones who knew, or could make the call (and as the E-4, I was surprised how many times it was the 'O' asking me, rather than the other way around...)

We're all a team, we have to be - for any of us to succeed, and the 'cleaner' and closer we can make that team, the better for all of us.

Mike

Edited August 12, 2007 by MKopack

[Toro]

It's official. Latest from T. Mike - we're moving MX back under Ops for fighters and CSAR. According to the boss:

I have tasked my staff to realign aircraft mainenance units into fighter and CSAR flying squadrons between July and November 2008...simultaneous with the fighter and CSAR AMUs move to the flying squadrons, the Maintenance Groups across the Air Force will deactivate and, in their place, Materiel Groups will stand up. The Materiel Group will enhance logistics enterprise integration at the wing level and contain the Logistics Readiness Squadron, Aerial Port Squadrons, and the remaining maintenance squadrons.

The wheels on the bus go round and round...

Reorganization_of_Wg_Maintenance_and_Logistics_CSAF_memo.pdf

[P-3FO]

Speaking on terms of the Navy, at my wing we just switched to a combined maintenance organization. All of the maintenance will be handled out of one office run by the Wing, which sounds a little bit like what the Air Force is moving away from. I just hope the P-3 Navy isn't making a huge mistake going to a system that takes the maintainers out of the squadrons. Only time will tell.

What was interesting was seeing all of the empty spaces in the hangar where the maintenance folks had their offices. I see a tremendous opportunity for installing a pool table or two, and maybe a few kegerators.

[bomber1]

Here we go again. I spent time in maintenance under both Ops and MXS. They both had their pros and cons. Crew Chiefs were organized under Ops when I was a FCC and it was great. Orders were easier to cut and the maintenance funding seemed a littler better. The Ops guys really took care of their Chiefs. When the first reorganization of Chiefs dropped shit changed over night. The FCC program went down the crapper and our 12 hour duty days quickly turned into 15 hour days. MXS only has one thing on their mind...fix the plane no matter what the cost. However I did notice several cons while Chiefing for OPs. The Ops CC had little knowledge on how heavy scheduled maintenance worked (Phase, ISO, Depot....) Also, communication with the other Maintenance Squadrons was limited. To tell you the truth, I don’t really care if I’m working for Ops or MXS. The mission is the same.

And as far as the whole Maintenance Officer thing goes...I'm still trying to figure out what their job is.

[Guest Boom]

I wish that, instead of 2 loadmasters in a C-130, we had 1 load and 1 crew chief.

Put a little of that AFSO21 garbage to work

Why the hell would you need a Crew Chief flying when you have a FE?

[Fontus]

Why the hell would you need a Crew Chief flying when you have a FE?

Please tell me that cat flies J Models!

Fontus

[spectre56]

I wish that, instead of 2 loadmasters in a C-130, we had 1 load and 1 crew chief.

Put a little of that AFSO21 garbage to work

That's the way the Marines do it: 1 load, 1 flying crew chief, 1 engineer...

Why the hell would you need a Crew Chief flying when you have a FE?

The crew chief is the FE's bitch.

[HerkDerka]

Why the hell would you need a Crew Chief flying when you have a FE?

FCC's take care of the plane on the road. FE's don't play mx unless they have to.

HD