Leather Flight Jacket

[Mike Honcho]

FWIW, my first pair of boots was broken in by a similar method. A good friend that I went to college with told me the Rangers in his batt broke their boots in by soaking them in water and wearing them until they dried.

Different leather, tanning method and cost, but if you're starting with a piece of crap jacket and thinking about going to Mr Lim for one it might be worth a shot. Another recommendation for him by the way, I don't have one but some bros do and his work is top notch.

But Hacker, dude, were all those jackets yours? Damn son.

[Hacker]

But Hacker, dude, were all those jackets yours? Damn son.

Yes, they were all mine at various times over the years. I'm a WWII aviation / warbird geek...can't help it. I've actually owned more than those I listed...those are just the ones I've done the washing machine treatment to,

I currently have two 1999 Avirex A-2s (both USAF uniform wear - the one I was issued, and another I took off a dude who bought a Pop's jacket and didn't want his issue one anymore) and one veteran 1971 Star Sportswear G-1 (which I wear casually and when civilian warbird flying -- way more comfortable than the A-2).

I've endured more than my share of "dead cow" jokes over the years (the A-2s aren't exactly popular in the fighter community...for some obtuse reasons that, unfortunately for most of the haters, they don't even understand or never even affected them). Plenty of, "no self-respecting fighter pilot would ever be caught dead in a bomber jacket."

Suit yourselves, dudes, but I know a real fighter pilot when I see one, and I'm pretty sure I see them riding into Hun territory wearing leather.

[fire4effect]

I'm not looking for a uniform item but I am looking for a black A-2 style with Thinsulate in the lining. I've found jackets with the Thinsulate lining are pretty warm without the bulk which is important in some smaller civilian cockpits. I've owned a fleece lined leather jacket in the past and I found it restricted mobility.

I've seen the LL Bean Thinsulate lined Flying Tiger Jacket but I don't like the way the back is sewn in two pieces whereas US Wings and the like seem to have one piece backs and look better in general though I don't have any idea what kind of insulation they use if any.

Opinions?

[AEWingsMN]

Ok, a few questions about Pop's Mods.

In addition to the liner option baseops mentioned (I have that, it's outstanding), Pops Leather can add a thin inner liner to the jacket - on mine, both the inner liner and zip-out liner have maps of the US. On the inner liner I had them attach a pen/pencil pocket and zippered pocket.

Are you saying you got both the "fur liner" and the "3m Thinsulate liner"? I take they are not both zip out (I see options for each of them to be zip-out)? If not, is that even possible/wise/necessary to have both liners zip out? What about the detachable arms on the liners, any recommendation on those?

Secondly, it asks about a snap secured epaulette, which I assume is not very authentic, but is there a use? It seems pointless...

Third, would the detachable wool collar come in handy? would it be out of compliance with current standards? would the jacket be less comfortable when it is detached? Is it more authentic?

Edited November 13, 2011 by AEWingsMN

[MCO]

Ok, a few questions about Pop's Mods.

Are you saying you got both the "fur liner" and the "3m Thinsulate liner"? I take they are not both zip out (I see options for each of them to be zip-out)? If not, is that even possible/wise/necessary to have both liners zip out? What about the detachable arms on the liners, any recommendation on those?

Secondly, it asks about a snap secured epaulette, which I assume is not very authentic, but is there a use? It seems pointless...

Third, would the detachable wool collar come in handy? would it be out of compliance with current standards? would the jacket be less comfortable when it is detached? Is it more authentic?

Not more authentic. Wool collar is a Navy thing. I know some guys that had it put in, but most do not. As far as the liners, i havn't seen any fur liners inside the main part of the jacket. The "3m Thinsulate liner" is standard and is what I have, and I don't wear it unless its down near freezing because its too warm otherwise.

Do get the fur liner in the pockets. Its awesome and really helps keep your hands warm.

[papajuice77]

Has anyone here ever purchased a jacket straight-up from Pops? I was thinking about snagging one from there since mine is currently shedding its plastic "shell" faster than Penn State could sh*t-can Joe Pa.

Too soon?

[OregonHerc]

I purchased one online (I wasn't going to Turkey anytime soon). Painless process, 2 weeks order to delivery. Jacket was made exactly to measurements.

[MCO]

Has anyone here ever purchased a jacket straight-up from Pops? I was thinking about snagging one from there since mine is currently shedding its plastic "shell" faster than Penn State could sh*t-can Joe Pa.

Too soon?

I bought mine off the rack in Pop's. They have just about every size with every form of the mod's on the shelf. You can also have them measure you and get one custom made.

[smalls0912]

I bought mine off the rack in Pop's. They have just about every size with every form of the mod's on the shelf. You can also have them measure you and get one custom made.

If you know you're going to be passing through Incirlik, definitely wait and go shopping at the store. The prices are better and they can custom make you one in 3 days. If you know you don't have the time, or aren't going to be at LTAG anytime soon, order from the website...they have excellent customer service.

[Stitch]

....the LL Bean Thinsulate lined Flying Tiger Jacket but I don't like the way the back is sewn in two pieces.... Opinions?

I have that jacket. It's warm enough, but yes, the back is two piece and the sleeves could be just a shad longer. But then again I can't bitch too much, only paid $60 at thrift store for a mint condition leather jacket that was $250 brand new.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I purchased one online (I wasn't going to Turkey anytime soon). Painless process, 2 weeks order to delivery. Jacket was made exactly to measurements.

Do you do your measurements with your flightsuit on (to account for the extra bulk of the bag) or off? I'm seriously considering getting one from Pops, I'm just not entirely clear on the process

[OregonHerc]

Do you do your measurements with your flightsuit on (to account for the extra bulk of the bag) or off? I'm seriously considering getting one from Pops, I'm just not entirely clear on the process

I didn't have my flightsuit on, and it fits perfectly without the liner, and quite comfortably with it. I'm pretty sure they make it slightly bigger if you get a mod.

[AEWingsMN]

Do you do your measurements with your flightsuit on (to account for the extra bulk of the bag) or off? I'm seriously considering getting one from Pops, I'm just not entirely clear on the process

From Pop's site:

2. Wear the type of clothing you'll wear with the item. Measure without pulling the tape tight. Do NOT make any "adjustments" to measurements, enter exactly what you measure.

so, they say to do so, but it shouldn't matter since you aren't pulling the tape tight, and realistically the difference between a flight suit and a regular t-shirt fabric is probably in the same margin of error as "how tight is the tape"

Edited November 15, 2011 by AEWingsMN

[Chutdoggin]

If anyone is interested in trying it I took the time to follow Hacker's steps for breaking in a new A-2 over the past couple of days. I was planning on ordering (had already filled out the order form when I 2x checked the forum) a new one from Pop's.

I did exactly what he said to and it worked out beautifully. Used a front load washer on tap cold with no spin and let the jacket "wash" for about 2 hours. The most important step was definitely making sure it laid perfectly flat (I used some rolled up washcloth's to keep it from getting wrinkles in the chest) and wore it twice while the leather was still damp.

It is now infinitely more comfortable than it was before and definitely looks much more broken in. There was absolutely no flaking, peeling, or discoloring of the leather. Im going to give the free issue another shot over the next couple of weeks but I can tell you that I am already much happier with this jacket!

[Hacker]

If anyone is interested in trying it I took the time to follow Hacker's steps for breaking in a new A-2 over the past couple of days. I was planning on ordering (had already filled out the order form when I 2x checked the forum) a new one from Pop's.

I did exactly what he said to and it worked out beautifully. Used a front load washer on tap cold with no spin and let the jacket "wash" for about 2 hours. The most important step was definitely making sure it laid perfectly flat (I used some rolled up washcloth's to keep it from getting wrinkles in the chest) and wore it twice while the leather was still damp.

It is now infinitely more comfortable than it was before and definitely looks much more broken in. There was absolutely no flaking, peeling, or discoloring of the leather. Im going to give the free issue another shot over the next couple of weeks but I can tell you that I am already much happier with this jacket!

Glad to hear that worked well for you.

Don't forget that you can further help the look and feel with the leather conditioner and hand/finger massage trick after the washing machine treatment. Lexol Leather Cleaner/Conditioner is what I usually use, but only because it's relatively easy to find in regular stores (vs in a leather/saddle/tack specialty shop) -- I'm sure that in a pinch any of the other leather care stuff that you'd find at WalMart (even for car interiors) is better than nothing. Spray or wipe on the leather, then roll the leather between your fingers to massage that conditioner in. You can work it a little piece at a time while watching TV or whatever. Over the course of an hour-long show, you can have massaged the entire jacket...it can help to make the shell much softer, and will reduce some of the stiffness that results from the wash and air-dry. I like a collar that stands rigidly up, so I generally just wipe down the collar area with conditioner rather than massaging it.

STS all around, of course.

I'd avoid getting any of the leather conditioner on the cotton liner -- it tends to discolor the liner (not permanently, but can leave an oil-ish discolored area depending on what kind of conditioner you're using).

[hardie9e]

I'm curious if anyone can point out the answer to this. I've noticed on several of the previously mentioned websites there seems to be a few different colors available for the A-2's. Is there a specific color that is considered standard uniform? I like the look of the lighter, russet colored jackets, but everyone I know at my unit has a darker brown. I'm not mission qual'd yet, so I haven't recieved mine. Just interested.

Hacker;

Is there a specific color of the leather that was characteristic of the jackets from the WWII era crews?

-hardie9e

[polcat]

I did what Hacker suggested and it worked very well. Because I have a high efficient top load washer (without agitator), I decided that washing it in the washer would probably not work as well and may in fact damage the jacket. First round, soaked/washed it for a little bit in the bathtub with cold water. Once it was dry, I used a less-than-stellar leather prodcut (aka kiwi). Don't waste your time with cheap leather care products and go with what Hacker suggested. Well after this treatment, my leather jacker had the touch of plastic. So much so that my helmet bags would slip off during the walk out to the plane. Round two. Therefore, I soaked the jacket yet again, this time for an hour, pulled it out and drained the water, rinsed it and then soaked it for another hour with a rinse afterwards. I let it dry for a little bit and then wore it for about an hour afterwhich I let it dry. I couldn't find Lexol around here, so I just ordered it online through amazon. Tonight, I used the Lexol and even massaged the leather and voila, the nicest leather jacket that the USAF will ever issue me. It's no where near the quality of Pops or Mr Lims, but it is much better. I highly recommend this method.

[RescueRandy]

Is there any info out there for people who's unit refuses to buy the damn jacket in the first place? I've been mission qual'd for going on two years now (along with nearly the rest of our squadron) and I still don't have a jacket. It's getting ridiculous and I'm probably just going to get the nicer one from Pop's anyway....

But jeeze, it's pretty ridiculous when they don't mind sending you out to bring 7.62mm and 12.7mm sized holes back in the bottom/sides of your helicopter, but they can't buy you a damn leather jacket to uphold Air Force tradition (whatever that is these days).

Rant off.

[Homestar]

All things being equal, I'd say the mission you fly that brings bullets back in your conveyance is a higher priority to your unit (and the unit of the dudes you pick up from the fight) than a leather jacket. I have a huge amount of respect for the rotor-heads out there, and if a leather jacket is that important to you then I suggest you re-examine your priorities. You won't get any chicks with your jacket anyway.

[RescueRandy]

Nearly three years after getting CMR, finally bought my own A2 from Pop's. For those of you out there thinking about buying your own, do so immediately! We need combat aviators to dress the part again!

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Nearly three years after getting CMR, finally bought my own A2 from Pop's. For those of you out there thinking about buying your own, do so immediately! We need combat aviators to dress the part again!

I bought a Pop's jacket too, and caught a lot of shit from people for "buying something I get for free" until they see the jacket. A jacket from Pop's is worth every single penny. I've compared it to both old and new issued jackets and it puts them to shame.

[SocialD]

It took us 2.5 years CMR to get them and they are a total POS! Most of them starting falling apart w/in a few months of wear. You would be better off selling it and putting that that $$$ towards an A-2 from Pops.

EDIT: Just checked on mine, I've never even worn it and some of the "leather" is flaking off...

Edited November 17, 2012 by SocialD

[Fuzz]

I'm looking at getting my A-2 jacket, and I know the issued ones are crap so I'm going to fork out the money for a nice one off the bat. I've seen here posted several times about getting the jacket once you are mission qual'd is that just in certain communities? The only aircrew in my family was my dad and he was enlisted, so his was a little different and a couple decades ago.

[Azimuth]

When I was in a Herk Sq it was MR'd and after one deployment. In a Tanker Sq it is just after being MR'd.

[Hammer]

Depends on your squadron.