Grayout

[Guest ENJJPTStud]

Is it extremely uncommon for someone to grayout a fair amount when pulling ~4.5 Gs in a G-ex for the first time when trying an AGSM?

Thanks for the info.

[Guest thefranchise]

sounds like a bad agsm or low g tolerance. your body will respond to Gs better over time so those first couple rides could wear you out. If you are holding your breath or straining too late before G onset, you could gray out early on as well.

[B-O-double-Z]

You will probably acclimate to it. DO NOT tell anyone that you grayed out at 4.5 g's.

If you fail to be able to cope with g's, it will become an issue in the long run. For now, on your first exposure in the aircraft, don't worry about it. Anticipating the g's is the most important thing. It is easier to withstand the onset if you are flying the aircraft. When somebody else is flying, you can get behind on your straining, because you don't anticipate it as well.

If your IP is worth a shit, he'll know that is it normal and keep his mouth shut, anticipating that you will adapt. If you get the medical folks involved or tie the flight commander's hands...good luck.

[Guest ENJJPTStud]

How common is it to have a "low g tolerance" that can't be overcome? I'm in pretty good shape and am not overly tall or anything. I was straining, but not as hard as I could. I was expecting it, but another guy in my class did 4.5 on the same day and wasn't expecting it and started to have narrowed vision. We did 4 a few times before that and I didn't notice anything negative and was quite comfortable throughout the maneuvers.

Thanks!

[FUSEPLUG]

I had grayout issues on nearly every flight in the Tweet. During contact, to max perform the jet, instead of "pulling the to tickle," I would "pull to the tunnel." I strained the best I could, and felt that I had a good technique going, but I just had no tolerance. It usually started right around 4 G's. I wasn't too concerned about it because I knew from my second or third flight that I wanted to go heavies, but there was a time or two where I was about a half second from hitting the stick to knock-off the instructors cloverleaf demonstration. Never G-LOC'd though.

Keep on top of the strain maneuver and if the problem continues past midphase (do they still have that checkride?) I'd go back and talk to the folks in Flight Physiology. I guarantee they will be more than happy to sit down with you for an hour and work on your AGSM.

[Guest EN_STUD]

I have just about every disadvantage working against me when it comes to Gs...tall, skinny, and low blood pressure.

At the beginning of Tweets, my G tolerance seemed really low. After a while, I found out that my problem was all in the strain. I was straining mostly with my calves and hamstrings. When I started straining more with my thighs, ass, and abs my tolerance got much better. Once I got the straining fixed, I was able to work on my breathing and it only got better from there.

Your tolerance is directly related to how hydrated you are, so keep up on the water. Also, try using the rudder pedals to help give you something to strain against.

[Dead Last]

I have just about every disadvantage working against me when it comes to Gs...tall, skinny, and low blood pressure.

At the beginning of Tweets, my G tolerance seemed really low. After a while, I found out that my problem was all in the strain. I was straining mostly with my calves and hamstrings. When I started straining more with my thighs, ass, and abs my tolerance got much better. Once I got the straining fixed, I was able to work on my breathing and it only got better from there.

Your tolerance is directly related to how hydrated you are, so keep up on the water. Also, try using the rudder pedals to help give you something to strain against.

Hey atleast it wasn't a brown out...

All seriousness I had the same issue with the narrowing vision until I found my personal technique for the agsm. but it never got bad enough that I gloc'd. Now all the g's I pull are a whooping ~2 g's in the Herk

[brabus]

With a bad strain, you can actually screw yourself and you'd be better off just sitting there and not straining at all, seriously. It wouldn't be a bad idea to go ask the Aero Phys dudes for some tips on your G-strain. I honestly didn't know shit until I went to the fuge and really found out how much is actually involved in a G-strain. Most people have a resting G-tolerance of around 4-4.5. Yours may very well be down around 3.5...but that's not really a huge issue. If you have a proper strain, get on the strain before you're playing "catch up" you'll be fine. Drink a shitload of water. Fatigue and dehydration massively lowers your G-tolerance. I was tired as shit and definitely pissing yellow today before my 2nd flight...5.5 felt like 9. Some days you're just not as good b/c of those two factors mostly. So, you just have to strain harder than usual at a certain G to compensate. Biggest tips are work on your G-strain, don't just blow it off like 99% of us do/did in Phase II. Get as much rest as you can (probably the least in your control) and drink a lot of water all the time, especially in the summer when it's hot as shit...like now. You'll get more tolerance naturally as you go on, so don't worry too much...but definitely don't start telling people you're graying out all the time...at least unless it becomes a serious safety factor down the road.

[Guest ENJJPTStud]

Thanks for the input. Yeah I didn't black out or anything..the maneuver just peaked at 4.5 for a second or two and I went from fine to mostly gray to fine all in the matter of a few seconds at most.

I'm in pretty good shape and am more than happy to work on my AGSM. So long as it isn't something that can't basically always be overcome, I'm not worried. That was just my main concern. Any more input would still be apprecciated.

Thanks!

[brabus]

Just another quick tip...my biggest problem I had to overcome was you need to relax your upper body while straining (besides your abs). Your shoulders, neck, arms, etc. should be relaxed just like when you're flying 1G. It was really hard for me to overcome this b/c it's just natural to tense up your whole body, but in reality you need to squeeze the shit out of your legs, ass and abs. Close off the airway and breath properly and that's it. Let your shoulders, arms, neck relax and that'll help you...it definitely helped me.

[Guest ENJJPTStud]

Thanks. I'm pretty sure that I only strained my calves and maybe my quads (whichever muscles you tense by "pretending to squeeze a beach ball between your legs") and maybe my abs slightly. Hm.

[brabus]

The fuge aero phys dude said your calves actually don't really do much at all, but you squeeze them b/c it's a natural way to lead the rest of your lower body into the g-strain. So if you're only squeezing w/ calves and just a bit of leg, that's definitely a big part of the problem. Don't forget your ass...that's actually a pretty big muscle and the only big muscle that's not covered by your g-suit, so if anything, squeeze that shit like you're sharing a room with

[Guest ENJJPTStud]

Haha, thanks. I'm just a bit worried, that's all. And as a sidenote, my vision never really got gradually like a "dark tunnel", it just seemed to almost immediately get blurry. I'll practice the strain. I'll be performing a few G-ex's tomorrow.. Although you typically only do that to 4gs, which as I mentioned, was nothing but a good time.

[brabus]

I'll admit I still have a bit of gray here and there...usually due to fatigue/dehydration, which generally leads to a weak strain. The whole point of the GX is to show you what your limits are. Some days you'll feel like a champ and can take 69 Gs, other days you wish you could just do 3G wing work and call it good. It's not unusual to have a little gray on the outside when you just didn't get on your strain quick enough or strong enough. You have no reason to worry and just need to acclimate to the high G environment. I can't speak for dudes w/ a lot of experience, but maybe Toro, Rainmain, etc can chime in to share their experiences. I'm willing to bet they've had the slight gray happen a ton of times over their career. There's a big difference b/w a little graying where you just strain harder and it goes away and the no shit you can't see anything b/c the tunnel just closed up. If you're not the latter, you really shouldn't worry.

[Cappy70]

It's all about knowing your personal limits. Sometimes going gray isn't a bad thing, it tells you to increase your strain. As long as you start the maneuver with a good prep breath and strain then you won't go from seeing everything to an instant GLOC. Your vision will probably start to tunnel and that is a clue to strain harder or KIO.

I've always been concerned with G's starting in the T-6, the 38, and then the Viper. It's no joke and needs to be taken seriously. I GLOC'ed in the fuge during the Viper profile and it was definitely something I won't forget and I'm glad I got that kind of training. Being hydrated like other people have said is to me the most important aspect of G tolerance. As the for the AGSM itself I always think of squeezing a giant medicine ball between my legs, as gay as that sounds. This helps me ensure that I strain my upper legs and abs, which are easy to overlook if not consciously thinking about them.

Anyone who says they have never had vision loss during BFM or something is probably lying their ass off. Don't sweat it and with more experience you will learn how your body handles G's and be able to call a KIO if your body isn't working right that day. You won't be looked down upon and you might save your life.

[Guest ENJJPTStud]

Thanks for the info, Cappy. So long as my "personal limits" aren't 4.5 Gs....I should be okay...heh....I don't think that's even possibly anyway. Right?

Edited August 24, 2007 by ENJJPTStud

[Guest awfltdoc]

Is it extremely uncommon for someone to grayout a fair amount when pulling ~4.5 Gs in a G-ex for the first time when trying an AGSM?

Thanks for the info.

No, I don't think it is uncommon. I do think it is under reported.

You experience is likely typical. And let me start this by saying you will do fine with G loads after figuring out how to properly perform the AGSM.

Some background:

There is a study of "several hundred" ACC pilots using 100% partial light loss (greyout) to determine resting G tolerance at the Gradual G onset rate of typically 0.067 to 0.1 G per second. The span of G-tol was 2.5 to 8.4 (wide variation due to factors that likely include age, body type, etc. Remember, these were trained ACC pilots. The median was 5.0-5.4 and the majority fell between 4-6.4, which is well within two standard deviations.

So, if your graying out at 4.5 you are not alone. At least if the AGSM is not performed or performed badly.

I have seen student pilots in Phase II in the clinic because they "grayed out" at 4.5 Gs. All of them were able to overcome this barrier by having the aerospace physiolgy folks "tutor" them one on one in the AGSM.

As a flight doc, I focus on getting the student to properly learn and perform the AGSM, not to weed out those that have a temporary difficulty with performing the maneuver.

On a more personal level, I have a resting G tolerance of 3.3 Gs. I am 6'3" and 166# (beanpole). I do gray out when I don't perform the AGSM well, usually do to not flying often enough. I have not G-LOCd in the past fortunately but I know its entirely possible with a really bad AGSM.

BTW, adaptation to Gs will occur quickly, your performance of the AGSM will improve with exposure, and the recommendations to stay hydrated and limit fatigue will go a long way to help you become the G monster extraordinaire

I could go on about G stuff but I will spare you the agony.

Edited August 24, 2007 by awfltdoc

[F16Deuce]

If you're really worried about it, I'd add legs to your workout routine at the gym (I know there's not much time for the gym as a stud, but its worth it). Leg presses, squats, and other leg exercises will pay off dividends to you. I GLOC'd in the friggin 38 fuge on the check 6 at 6 for 10 sec (which is after the 7.5 for 15sec) for not really straining. I figured, hey I just did 7.5, this next one will get cake. Goodnight. Made for a funny video anyways. Since then I've been working legs and more abs into my workout pretty religiously. When I went back for the Viper profile (and hadnt been flying for over a month) I had no issues at all. If I can do it, anyone can.

[Bronco130]

Thread revival:

I've read the thread and it seems like G-tolerance is something that can be worked on (which is reassuring), so I my question is if anyone knows 6'2'' pilots that can sustain 8 g's? I have low blood pressure, 6'2'', and just for some additional information of my blood flow, my leg will fall asleep if I rest it on my other knee while sitting down in a minute or so. I am 203 lbs so I have that on my side, but since i'm heading to enjjpt this has been on my mind...

thanks.

[B*D*A]

Thread revival:

I've read the thread and it seems like G-tolerance is something that can be worked on (which is reassuring), so I my question is if anyone knows 6'2'' pilots that can sustain 8 g's? I have low blood pressure, 6'2'', and just for some additional information of my blood flow, my leg will fall asleep if I rest it on my other knee while sitting down in a minute or so. I am 203 lbs so I have that on my side, but since i'm heading to enjjpt this has been on my mind...

thanks.

I'm nothing close to an expert and am only replying because I'm 6'2" 210 so we're around the same size and I have slightly low blood pressure as well, which I've been using my casual time to fix with cigarettes, booze and red meat . I got a couple bucket rides in the Viper as a cadet including a couple high aspect flights where we maxed around 8.5Gs and I got some peripheral graying but that was all. I was squeezing like a mother ######er though (no homo). Honestly, don't stress about it until you actually pull some G and see how it affects you.