Classic Thread - Pilot poser on Corvette Forum

[HerkDerka]

I was also gonna send out some props to Atilla for some mad Photoshoppin' skills; but the way he covered up the nametag in that photo is shit!

Look Attila! I can do it too!

HD

[Guest Scribe]

First off, I never claimed to be 'pilot' Whiterock.

But I was not a pilot, and never claimed to be, and could not let anyone think otherwise that I was lying about it.

That's it, folks. Have at it.

OK, you asked for it. I went back over to Corvette Forum and here's what YOU wrote in YOUR profile:

Biography:

First Vette; many F-bodies--most recent 2000 Trans Am Ram Air, and Regal Grand National. Former Air Force Fighter pilot.Currently Program Manager at Schriever AFB Colorado Springs, CO. LOVE the Vette!!!! Picked it up 6/9/06 and can't get grin off my face!!!

You also posted this:

USAF 1971-1976. F-4 driver; 366 days in SEA.

Then I did a Google check and found you saying same thing on a Car Wax forum:

I was a Fighter Pilot (F-4s) for the Air Force in Viet Nam, and currently am a Program Manager for them as a civilian. Live in Colorado Springs and love it here!

Google also shows this on a Ferrari forum:

I'm a former USAF F-4 Phantom Pilot, Vietnam Veteran and Deputy Director of an Air Force Space Command Program Management Office.

Similar claim made on ColoradoMuscle.com:

Hi. I'm a new guy, Whiterock1. Name's Mike and I'm an Air Force Program Manager at Schriever AFB. Was a Fighter Pilot on active duty--long time ago, and flew combat in Viet Nam.

Then there's ColoradoVette.com:

Hi. Just signed up. Name is Mike and I'm a Program Manager for the USAF at Schriever AFB Colorado Springs. I live in Peyton (Falcon actually) and am a new owner (June) of a 2006 Z51, manual, black on black coupe. I absolutely love it!!!! Have had many Pontiac performance cars, going back to my first, a '69 GTO. My last was a 2000 WS6 T/A, arrest me red, A4. Loved it, but wanted a Vette for years. Kids on their own now, just me and the wife and she said go for it! She drives an '87 Buick Regal Grand National, btw, so performance cars run in the family! Used to be an Air Force Fighter Pilot, Vietnam Vet, so love speed. Always have. Raced cars back in the day growing up in the Chicago area. Glad to be here and looking forward to hearing from other Coloradians. Just moved here last Sep from VA.

Unless this is the work of the nefarious Blackstar from your computer, I suggest you reconsider your statement, never claimed to be 'pilot' Whiterock.

Edited September 4, 2007 by Scribe

[HerkDerka]

Alright Whiterock, what's your story now?

Bunk22, Scribe, and Alfakilo have all produced evidence that you're a fake. Not to mention that we are on version 4 of your story.

This is your chance to man-up, apologize, and press on.

HD

Edited September 4, 2007 by HerkDerka

[brickhistory]

Well, I'll give you the credit for finally answering and, except for the F-4 preflight which I'm not qualified to judge its validity, did pretty well for either google or a 35 year old memory.

Notice I had to put the caveat in there.

I don't think you are genuine or if you are, are anyone that I'd wanna drink with, or go to war with.

Ta...................

[MD]

Some were given a lot of stick time, myself included, and called, as I recall, Category 2As. I took off, flew mission legs, delivered ordnance and landed the bird many times, and having had exceptional hand-eye coordination--and easily corrected to 20-15 vision, was a good "stick."

I did the same thing in the stinkbug. I think we were referred to as Category 5Cs.......akin to WSOs with landing currency; since the jet did everything else. lol

Is this like the 1A flying category that the flight records people refer to us as? I'll have to ask our 1CO tomorrow what a 2A is, I'll clear it us for us.

Edited September 4, 2007 by MD

[Guest Whiterock]

OK, you asked for it. I went back over to Corvette Forum and here's what YOU wrote in YOUR profile:

Biography:

First Vette; many F-bodies--most recent 2000 Trans Am Ram Air, and Regal Grand National. Former Air Force Fighter pilot.Currently Program Manager at Schriever AFB Colorado Springs, CO. LOVE the Vette!!!! Picked it up 6/9/06 and can't get grin off my face!!!

You also posted this:

USAF 1971-1976. F-4 driver; 366 days in SEA.

Then I did a Google check and found you saying same thing on a Car Wax forum:

I was a Fighter Pilot (F-4s) for the Air Force in Viet Nam, and currently am a Program Manager for them as a civilian. Live in Colorado Springs and love it here!

Google also shows this on a Ferrari forum:

I'm a former USAF F-4 Phantom Pilot, Vietnam Veteran and Deputy Director of an Air Force Space Command Program Management Office.

Similar claim made on ColoradoMuscle.com:

Hi. I'm a new guy, Whiterock1. Name's Mike and I'm an Air Force Program Manager at Schriever AFB. Was a Fighter Pilot on active duty--long time ago, and flew combat in Viet Nam.

Then there's ColoradoVette.com:

Hi. Just signed up. Name is Mike and I'm a Program Manager for the USAF at Schriever AFB Colorado Springs. I live in Peyton (Falcon actually) and am a new owner (June) of a 2006 Z51, manual, black on black coupe. I absolutely love it!!!! Have had many Pontiac performance cars, going back to my first, a '69 GTO. My last was a 2000 WS6 T/A, arrest me red, A4. Loved it, but wanted a Vette for years. Kids on their own now, just me and the wife and she said go for it! She drives an '87 Buick Regal Grand National, btw, so performance cars run in the family! Used to be an Air Force Fighter Pilot, Vietnam Vet, so love speed. Always have. Raced cars back in the day growing up in the Chicago area. Glad to be here and looking forward to hearing from other Coloradians. Just moved here last Sep from VA.

Unless this is the work of the nefarious Blackstar from your computer, I suggest you reconsider your statement, never claimed to be 'pilot' Whiterock.

Quote:

"in certain circumstances when asked what I did, I do say fighter pilot--but only to people where going into the distinction between a fighter pilot and fighter gator isn't worth the time, if questioned by someone worth going into it, I do, then if I'm guilty of not following the battle and if that makes me a poser, ok.." Maybe you missed that post.

Intros on car forums qualify for the above statement, which I made here earlier. On the CASBAR, TLC or any other--including this, forum where the distinction can be made, I do it. During the CF period and on here, find a statement claiming I was a pilot and I will gladly own up and apologize. As far as apology in general goes, I thought I'd already made it. If not, then I do now. It was never my intention to deceive as to my status as a Vietnam veteran or what I did as an aviator there. When it appeared that I had, I posted today to clear it up. As I said, there was no need to, and as I consider Scribe an honest man, he can affirm the thread would have been over with no one the wiser. Except me. That's why I posted. What I said before about defending my service in SEA hasn't changed, and if you expect an 'apology' for that, don't hold your breath. But, as I've said several times before, I should have seen the most important issue--here--as being a poser pilot, not a fake VN Vet, and made it very clear from the start. To me, that has the priority reversed, but it's your forum.

[Guest alfakilo]

"in certain circumstances when asked what I did, I do say fighter pilot--but only to people where going into the distinction between a fighter pilot and fighter gator isn't worth the time, if questioned by someone worth going into it, I do, then if I'm guilty of not following the battle and if that makes me a poser, ok.."

God Almighty...KIO. OK?

It may not make you a poser...but all of this sure as hell has made you look like a weak dick. Now that's a 14 carat old F-4 saying that I'm sure you understand. Just take your insecurities and pack it in...you've embarrassed yourself enough.

[stick]

Holy ****, stop feeding the troll. Whiterock, I don't give a **** who you say you are, especially after all the excessive explanations you offer. No aviator I know talks like you.

Hang around and offer insightful, entertaining, and knowledgeable tidbits on the way the F-4 flew the defensive egg position or the usefulness of the gouge in UNT, and you might one day be taken seriously. Please stop the manifesto-esque descriptions of yourself.

Mods, can we lock this? I think the validity of this guy's claims can be justified one way or another by the current contents of this thread.

[HerkDerka]

Mods, can we lock this? I think the validity of this guy's claims can be justified one way or another by the current contents of this thread.

I'd rather give Whiterock a chance to own up. Still waiting.

HD

Edited September 4, 2007 by HerkDerka

[Guest A.M.F.]

Sometimes I can't remember if I was the pilot, nav, or loadmaster.

Sarcasm aside, a quick look at your LES under 'EOM pay' should clear up the LM confusion. Or if you've got child support going out to the phillipines

For the record, I was a pilot guy on F-119s, B-42s, P-51s, F-14s, the space shuttle, and the SR-71. Now, I'm a KC-10 boomer, ~ E-4/5. Lesson in all this?

Don't get a DUI on base!

[Hacker]

Again, it's been a long time, but I think you're referring to the 130s that were the predecessor to AWACS as airborn command posts. They were EC-130s and called in Pave Spike/Nail laser guided bomb missions. We used Crown, College Eye, and another whose name escapes me, plus Nail and Misty (fast) facs, as well in Cambodia.

EC-121, maybe?

Connie, Herk...what's the diff.

PLEASE don't lock this thread. This is Baseops.net history in the making right here...one of the best in a long time.

[HuggyU2]

EC-121, maybe?

Connie, Herk...what's the diff.

PLEASE don't lock this thread. This is Baseops.net history in the making right here...one of the best in a long time.

Yes, don't lock it. Personally, I'm done reading it, but it seems like great entertainment for a bunch of folks. Let 'em play!

[Scooter14]

Wow, how have I missed this golden thread? Too busy running from baby laden spiders (and baby-fat laden country girls) here at Altus maybe.

Our sim guy was an OV-10 guy in SEA for a while. He's the guy you want for sims, because instead of him droning on for hours about some minute details or re-hashing stuff you already know, he usually tells war stories and talks about guns, fishing, carpentry, etc. Then, when you get in the sim he'll happily punch the compund EP buttons to give you all sorts of eye-opening catastrophic failures as he laughs till he almost falls over, but you learn a ton because it's all hands on.

Anyway, I recall a story about them using the "Nail" callsign on their OV-10 FAC missions. Hardly a fast FAC, but a FAC nonetheless.

Nail, Misty, 220, 221, whatever it takes. We read Vietnam books, too.

[Guest copenhagen]

D!ck Licker posted:

"in certain circumstances when asked what I did, I do say fighter pilot--but only to people where going into the distinction between a fighter pilot and fighter gator isn't worth the time, if questioned by someone worth going into it, I do, then if I'm guilty of not following the battle and if that makes me a poser, ok.." Maybe you missed that post.

It was never my intention to deceive as to my status as a Vietnam veteran or what I did as an aviator there.

You are an absolute INSULT to every nav that pushed on to go to UPT. You don't get any points from me for being a vet if you "posed" whilst describing aforementioned service. STFU and GTFOH

[Guest TheBurt]

Shameful, pretending to be something you are not, especially from those that sacrificed so much. God bless the internet and those of you who outed this poser. Poser corvette guy, you must feel like that dude from India on "To catch a Predator" with Chris Hanson, he goes into the house to meet the 13yr old girl and takes his clothes off and starts eating a cookie, Hanson walks into the kitchen and confronts him, the Indian guy just sits there making up about 5 different stories of why he is there, "I came to counsel her", all the while sitting in front of the cameras like no one notices he is bare ass naked.

If you were spouting off about flying Herks, Hogs, Gunships, Mudhens in the middle east, it would have taken 6.9 posts to expose you, this took a little longer because of the different era, THANK YOU to those that persisted in outing this honor stealing fraud. He makes me sick.

TheBurt

[Guest AFtoCiv]

Dear Whiterock,

Surely you have heard of the acronym KISS.

Keep It Short and Simple [KISS]

Clearly, you can not do such. When asked direct questions (several times, mind you, by several veteran board members), you have continuously skirted obvious answers and offered nothing more than boring conjecture that anyone can find via Google. Nothing you have posted to date has given you any shred of credibility. If anything, your responses have furthered your dishonesty and certain need for attention. You have ######-footed the main issues that any flyer would have no problem answering within a heartbeat. Ironically, you ID’d yourself in your CIV job. Holy heck, man. Why on earth would you do that?! Hopefully that's another one of your lies, but more than likely, it isn’t (and if it is, I truly feel pity for you, in addition to your coworkers and potential subordinates). Your house of cards will certainly fall. And honestly, dude, did you not realize that we live in an internet-based society where we can find out almost anything on anyone?! Are you that daft?! It's called Google, Yahoo, et al. Yikes. Then again, you don't really exude common sense....

As far as Whiterock is concerned, the more he lies, the more he believes his own sad story to be true. And a sad story this is. He has woven a web of lies so great that he actually believes it. This is standard for pathological liars. This dude has a pattern of behavior and propensity to BS people, not only on this forum, but on others, all the while using a common guise, as he has so evidently and clearly proven to do as such. He has dug his own grave on baseops.net, but will more that likely still pose to those who are unknowing and unwitting to the certain details that this particular crew has knowledge of.

It must take so much effort and energy to pose as such a pitiful (oh, I'm sorry, prideful) story as his, because by doing such he tarnishes the integrity of those who have faithfully and honorably served, especially during Vietnam. Imagine how much time he must spend on the internet researching this crap he attempts to regurgitate on this forum and others. How sad and tasteless.

Perhaps we should find this nut a therapist. It sounds like he needs someone to help him get beyond these delusions of certain grandeur. Edit for sarcasm. Whiterock, you're in CO, right? I have some friends out there. I'll find you some peeps....I'll consider it my contribution to the greater society for the year by doing so. Really. it's no problem. :-) My pleasure! Consider this my yearly contribution to volunteerism. Viva Whiterock!!

Or maybe he should be cut off from the internet. Whiterock, are you still living in mom's basement?! ;-) You have officially made a fool of yourself, and should you be bold enough to refute what has been posted since your last comment, surely no one will give you more than due pity. Get over yourself.

In the infamous words of Mr. T, "I pity the fool!"

Yes, sir. That fool is indeed you. Eat it, and go away. Please. Go look in the mirror. What do you see? Clearly it’s not the famed pilot you claim to be. Must be tough, huh? No, it's rather sad. For you.

Edited September 4, 2007 by AFtoCiv

[fossilsarge]

BTW...earlier, you said something that made it sound like you and your AC flew strafing passes at low altitude. Is that your claim? If so, why did you violate the standing 7thAF restriction against operations below 4500'AGL? We had Es at Ubon and the only guy I knew who violated this got his nuts cut off.

[Steve Davies]

Seeing as this thread is going to go down in the history books as Baseops' best yet, I needed to get a post in here to say I was part of it.

Nice job Bunk, AK and Scribe on busting this guy.

[brickhistory]

For the record, Moonbeam, Cricket, Alleycat and Hillsboro were callsigns for ABCCC - an EC-130 with a radio-stuffed capsule in the back used to control and allocate ground attack sorties.

I will give him credit for finding that on google and/or asking his Dad.

[Steve Davies]

For the record, Moonbeam, Cricket, Alleycat and Hillsboro were callsigns for ABCCC - an EC-130 with a radio-stuffed capsule in the back used to control and allocate ground attack sorties.

I will give him credit for finding that on google and/or asking his Dad.

Brick

I think that most of your questions could be answered by anyone who has read Michel's excellent book, Clashes.

[Guest alfakilo]

Would this be the Tree Killer who RTBd to Ubon in March/April 1973 with enough foliage in the wings to film a Tarzan movie?

If ever I wished I had a camera in my AF career it was that day.

I'm not too sure about the tree part...but it was Ubon, 497th TFS. There were a couple of F-4E squadrons at Ubon who were there TDY from the States (Seymour-Johnson, IIRC) and their aircraft were shared among the Ubon permanent party squadrons (who were assigned F-4Ds). From one day to the next, we didn't know what model we were going to fly...it didn't make much difference when it came to flying the thing, but the cockpit switch positions could be changed a bit. Ubon had a long history of air-to-ground weapon development and consequently, a number of our jets had some rather unique cockpit set-ups.

Anyway, this guy ran across a bunch of trucks out in the open which was a rare sight...usually all we saw was the proverbial 'troops or trucks in the tree line' as described by the FAC. We worked with Nails who were based at Ubon or Cambodian ground FACs who we were never quite too sure about. He got clearance to expend and went after the trucks using the more conventional low angle pass that was not permitted under the 4500'AGL restriction (in place to minimize the small arms fire threat). It was a license to steal and I have no doubts why he went after the trucks like that...but, regardless of the ROE, he did and got some excellent BDA from the FAC.

Unfortunately, his means to this end became known back at Ubon, and he got two weeks on the ground or something like that. I remember being somewhat disillusioned about why such ballsy work had to result in a public drubbing...but it was my first tour in fighters and I had a lot to learn!

We had a display case in the squadron building and in it were some karst rocks and tree remains that had come back to Ubon embedded in a jet. Many of the 497th missions were night missions over some pretty wild territory and there a number of losses that were written off to ground collisions . In one of my first missions, I had a backseater who was an IP and he was checking me out at night. We went after some 37mm AAA using the Dive Toss delivery method (an early automated release system). I was completely unfamiliar with DT since the F-4Cs that we had in training didn't have that system. A successful DT pass required the pilot to hold a reasonably stable dive angle while the backseater maintained a radar lock on the ground return...being the hamfist that I was, I miserably failed the 'reasonably stable' part because of the difficulty in keeping the target in sight when coming down the chute...I kept banking back and forth trying to get the target into the gunsight.

What this did was break the radar lock and the backseater had to relock...all of which took time...so there we were, in a 30 degree dive bomb pass that seemed to take a long time. At some point, something made me wonder what our altitude was and when I looked at the altimeter, I got the shock of my life. It said that we were on the ground...so I yanked the pole back, over-gee'd the jet badly, and buried the IP in the scope (he still had his head down trying to get that lock-on. I was badly frightened because all the altitude indications were that we should have been dead...but luck won again.

I never again used DT at night.

Edited September 4, 2007 by alfakilo

[Mambo]

Now that is a great story AK....and since you've been verified on baseops.net as NOT a poser, a great believable story

As with Steve, had to get in on the historic thread.

[Guest alfakilo]

Brick

I think that most of your questions could be answered by anyone who has read Michel's excellent book, Clashes.

That is THE book to read for a discussion of the SEA air war. He just tells it like it was without any need to pat himself on the back as is too often seen in other books on the subject.

[Guest bunk22]

Not that it matters now but Whiterock never sent me anything via my NMCI account. His lies, stories, general BS has come full circle.

Pretty good summary, Scribe, but let me add a few things to it.

1> I sent the original email quoted 2nd party by him to Bunk wed--to the Navy address he gave me from my AF address at Schriever.

2> I today sent him another, taking him at his word as a Naval Officer that he didn't receive the first one. This second one shows a pic of me in the cp of a Phantom--at Udorn in revetments, with my Panther Pack helmet on the canopy, in a 13TFS work suit from ~ june of 1973. I sent him a pic of my 13TFS coffee mug, wall plaque and certificate, 13TFS patch on it, for a "Fighter tour in the F-4 D and E aircraft in SEA" signed by all my squadron buds and my then CC, and dating it '73-74. If someone here would like a copy of these pics--and message, send me a pm or post your email on the block. I would appreciate a Moderator doing so who could then post them for everyone to see.

3> I was Dimestore--a frag name for '5 and 10' what we old guys called it, and a bomb load of 500 and 1000" bombs.

Edited September 4, 2007 by bunk22

[brickhistory]

No, I'm Spartacus....err, whiterock..........!!!