Switching from heavy to bomber

[MD]

Originally posted by ClearedHot:

Rainman,

B-1 & B-52 studs do track T-38's.

Reason unknown.

Yeah, it's changed a couple of times. Back when I went through in 37s, the bombers were still coming out of 38s. When I got to 38s, they switched the bombers to the T-1 side of the house for about 10 or so months. Bombers were again given back to the 38s after that, and I think have stayed there ever since. Circa mid-98

[ 01. August 2006, 14:47: Message edited by: MD ]

[Toro]

Rainman,

B-1 & B-52 studs do track T-38's.

Reason unknown.

Ditto MD.

In three years as a T-38 IP, I saw the B-1 and B-52 change so many times it was ridiculous. When I started, they came from the T-38 track. About a year later, they went to the T-1s -- but they came over to T-38s when they were complete for a 'top-off' to fly formation and low levels. It was an asinine program. Shortly after that they came back to the T-38s and sometime after I left they went back to T-1s. Apparently now they've come back to T-38s.

:rolleyes:

[Hacker]

Originally posted by Toro:

they came over to T-38s when they were complete for a 'top-off' to fly formation and low levels. It was an asinine program.

Introduction to Bomber Fundamentals, right?

:rolleyes:

[Guest PhantomII]

I certainly wish bombers would come back to T-1's.

I don't start SUPT until Aug. of '07 (on casual at Hurlburt right now), and I really would like to fly B-1's. Problem is that just about everyone I've ever asked wants fighters so unless I'm first or second in my class I've got little chance of ever flying the Bone.

That's not to say I'm down about it because i've got an idea of what I'd ideally like to drive for each of the four tracks. Of course the Air Force might have a different opinion no matter which track I go....lol.

[brabus]

Or you could always work your ass off to get in the top few of the class and get 38s...not to mention you never know what your class will be like, some classes the majority of the guys want something other than 38s. You never know unless you work hard and try, right? A winning attitude could make a big difference.

[Guest ShaneTrain24]

DISCLAIMER: I did search for this and it only came up dealing with switching within the guard...

I was watching a history channel show on the B-2 and one of the pilots mentioned that they have pilots from all over the AF. He specifically said they had tanker and heavy dudes that have switched over to fly the B-2. I know switching from a heavy to a heavy is not unheard of (KC-135 to a C-17 for example), but does switching from a heavy to a bomber happen often? I guess I'm just curious.

[usaf36031]

Second hand info, but...I know of a guy who swtiched from C-17s to B-2s. Apparently it can happen. B-2's seem to be a special case.

I'm certain somebody on this forum knows more about this than I do.

[WeMeantWell]

Heavy to Bomber program existed, used to be able to cross flow to fighters as well. Most of them have ceased, the B-2 cross-flow stopped a few years back (03?), I think it was one bad apple ruined the program for everyone else. I think B-2s would take 1 per year from AMC... The main push might have been from the T-1 purchase, AF bought the T-1 for heavy and bomber pilot training, they have since taken bomber pilots from the T-38.

[Guest ShaneTrain24]

Delete this thread, and bite your tongue. You don't even want to go down that road, especially now. Stay in your tanker or cargo if you want to enjoy your life at all.

I think you're a little misunderstood. I'm not trying to wriggle my way out of a heavy or tanker; I was just wondering if it does happen based on what I heard on the show. Just a little curiosity, and not a big deal...

[Nineline]

Typically the B-2's only take FAIPs (T-38 tracked) or former fighter/bomber dudes. Once upon a time, they were taking any and all applications, but have since restricted it. However, recently (within the past year or so), they've taken two RC-135 dudes, both of whom were T-1 trained.

Considering that these two are the exception to the norm, it probably helped that Offutt's wing king is a one star and a previous B-2 pilot....

-9-

Edit: What 123abc was probably referring to in the post above was the enhanced nuke emphasis that the B-2's and B-52's are currently receiving.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Nineline

[afnav]

I know you guys are pilots, but I switched from E-3s to B-52s as a nav in 1999, going straight to the left seat downstairs. No crossflow board or trade was involved. I was released from the R guys to the B guys, since recon was fat for about five minutes.

The only thing that kept me from going to B-1s was the shortage of EW school slots, or I would have gone there instead.

I'm sure the pilot community would put restrictions on you that don't apply to navs/ewos, but it seems like the "B-2 wall" is starting to crumble as the plane gets older. There used to be restrictions on SR-71s/U-2s/F-117s back in the day.

[theat6bisasham]

Okay, no more 5-20 year old info...here is the 100% CURRENT situation.

There is no normal crossflow between tanker, bomber, fighter - at all - in any direction! Period Dot. This does not account for the 1 in a million, 3-star's aid, or reserve/guard exception or some green-door afpc mistake.

All B-52 & B-1 pilots TODAY come from the T-38 track. Reason? They tried the T-1 track back in 98-99 and DID NOT LIKE THE PRODUCT. Period dot. Agree or disagree, that's the reason. Realisticly it's used as a AFPC cushion for fighter slots. It allows JSUPT to have a better chance of getting top guys into fighter slots...but even that is old news - try getting an ACTUAL fighter slot out of JSUPT today (I'm a T6 IP)

B-2's ? This current years message says ONLY Fighter/Bomber or Fighter/Bomber FAIPS are eligible. It's been that way for 2 or 3 years now. Don't waste your time, we've had tanker FAIPS in my squadron get reminded by the AETC/CC to STOP applying. Read the message and you'll actually see a new section that tells you that the Fighter/Bomber issue is NON-WAIVERABLE.

Please don't tell us about how you did it 5 years ago, or how your buddy did it 10 years ago, or some other fictional crap. Might as well talked about sitting nuc-alert in the buff 7 days a week....it's all ancient history.

[Guest tonio]

I know you guys are pilots, but I switched from E-3s to B-52s as a nav in 1999, going straight to the left seat downstairs. No crossflow board or trade was involved. I was released from the R guys to the B guys, since recon was fat for about five minutes.

The only thing that kept me from going to B-1s was the shortage of EW school slots, or I would have gone there instead.

I'm sure the pilot community would put restrictions on you that don't apply to navs/ewos, but it seems like the "B-2 wall" is starting to crumble as the plane gets older. There used to be restrictions on SR-71s/U-2s/F-117s back in the day.

If you were willing to wait was there a possibility of going B-1's? I'm asking for the Nav perspective on making the transition.

[Cooter]

I know 2 Recce pilots that have gone to B-2s in the last year or so. Just sayin'.

Cooter

[FlyinGrunt]

Okay, no more 5-20 year old info...here is the 100% CURRENT situation.

There is no normal crossflow between tanker, bomber, fighter - at all - in any direction! Period Dot. This does not account for the 1 in a million, 3-star's aid, or reserve/guard exception or some green-door afpc mistake.

All B-52 & B-1 pilots TODAY come from the T-38 track. Reason? They tried the T-1 track back in 98-99 and DID NOT LIKE THE PRODUCT. Period dot. Agree or disagree, that's the reason. Realisticly it's used as a AFPC cushion for fighter slots. It allows JSUPT to have a better chance of getting top guys into fighter slots...but even that is old news - try getting an ACTUAL fighter slot out of JSUPT today (I'm a T6 IP)

B-2's ? This current years message says ONLY Fighter/Bomber or Fighter/Bomber FAIPS are eligible. It's been that way for 2 or 3 years now. Don't waste your time, we've had tanker FAIPS in my squadron get reminded by the AETC/CC to STOP applying. Read the message and you'll actually see a new section that tells you that the Fighter/Bomber issue is NON-WAIVERABLE.

Please don't tell us about how you did it 5 years ago, or how your buddy did it 10 years ago, or some other fictional crap. Might as well talked about sitting nuc-alert in the buff 7 days a week....it's all ancient history.

Kudos to you for giving current gouge- but the worst they can say is no, right? You won't know unless you try, and personally, being told "don't waste your time" and "you don't have a chance" only piss me off to try harder.

But no, I'm not applying for B-2s. ever.

[afnav]

If you were willing to wait was there a possibility of going B-1's? I'm asking for the Nav perspective on making the transition.

My situation was ten years ago, and they kept me from going to B-1s because they had no extra EWO slots. With the schools closing/moving at random, I doubt there has been much change in the availability of schools.

With the consolidated CSO course opening at Pensacola soon, that will probably allow a "universal" CSO going back and forth between the specialties.

And no, I will not anyone that does that school a nav.

[WeMeantWell]

Okay, no more 5-20 year old info...here is the 100% CURRENT situation.

Obsolete the moment you pressed "add reply"... we have all heard that line before. By all means, keep applying. So many times I have heard"It will never happen" "There is not way they will approve it", etc... in 2002 with stopless going on, I saw a guy get Palace chase approved, after everyone in his chained non-concured and told him it was 100% not possible. The same thing with VSP, "There is no way they are going to let you out" half the squadron later we are still wondering wtfo? I honestly believe you 100% and am sure there is not much we can do about it. If you are not happy with the weather in the AF wait about 5 minutes.

[Butters]

And no, I will not anyone that does that school a nav.

2

I was thinking the same thing.... Oh, wait, what the hell did you say?

[brickhistory]

Yoda, sometimes the darnedest things you say...

[theat6bisasham]

Obsolete the moment you pressed "add reply"... we have all heard that line before. By all means, keep applying. So many times I have heard"It will never happen" "There is not way they will approve it", etc... in 2002 with stopless going on, I saw a guy get Palace chase approved, after everyone in his chained non-concured and told him it was 100% not possible. The same thing with VSP, "There is no way they are going to let you out" half the squadron later we are still wondering wtfo? I honestly believe you 100% and am sure there is not much we can do about it. If you are not happy with the weather in the AF wait about 5 minutes.

Huh? WTF? Explain to me the process for applying for a non-existent program. You might as well tell some MPF bubba to "keep on applying to get that Raptor assignment"...

This has nothing to do with VSP's and palace chase - it has to do with big blue and his view on the fighter mafia and training. It's the same BS why every assignment i can't switch aircraft. When I get back from AETC I need a entire FTU program, so why couldn't I just attend FTU in some other airframe? Because big blue said so..

[pbar]

If you were willing to wait was there a possibility of going B-1's? I'm asking for the Nav perspective on making the transition.

I know two RC-135 navs who came over to the B-1 about 7 years ago and the way they did was 1) get released by their RC-135 AFPC bubba 2) constantly talked to the B-1 AFPC bubba about taking over the EW school slot of someone who washed out of nav school. In both cases, they slid into the EW school slot of some Lt who washed out late in the program at Pensacola. I've seen one Buff EW cross over too but since those guys I personally don't know of nav who transfered into the B-1. The FTU pipeline for B-1 WSOs was backed up for a long time (not sure about current status) and so I don't think it would be possible to try the aforementioned trick now. Still, it might be worth talking to the bomber AFPC bubbas.

[pawnman]

If you were willing to wait was there a possibility of going B-1's? I'm asking for the Nav perspective on making the transition.

When I went through the FTU, we had 1 BUFF EWO and 1 RJ EWO in the class behind us. I don't know why they don't put more folks looking for Bones through EWO school...it's not exactly crowded. I would think they'd have more than enough capacity to meet their 12-person (or whatever it is now) quota for pipeline guys, and add additional slots to that. But then, it would only make sense to put 20 guys in a room with 25 chairs...

[nsplayr]

When I went through the FTU, we had 1 BUFF EWO and 1 RJ EWO in the class behind us. I don't know why they don't put more folks looking for Bones through EWO school...it's not exactly crowded. I would think they'd have more than enough capacity to meet their 12-person (or whatever it is now) quota for pipeline guys, and add additional slots to that. But then, it would only make sense to put 20 guys in a room with 25 chairs...

From what I understand the class size is limited because of the new sims...there are only X number of sims and they can't just push more people though because they could theoretically fit in a room. As for pipeline students most classes have 5 slots for EWO out of a class of 15-20 studs. Plus you have foreign students who frequently take up 1-2 slots.

From my class that graduated 17 overall, there were only 5 pipeline kids that tracked EWO. The rest of the slots were taken up by 2 Canadians, 2 strike eagle dudes, and 3 bone WSOs. 12 is the max total class size and if there were more WSOs going through, there'd be even fewer opportunities for pipeline kids to track EWO (which was fine by me b/c I wanted nav but if you wanted EWO you hoped for a class that had fewer outside students filling up the potential slots...sts).

Of course all of this will change with the new CSO school so opportunities might be more available if they still run a EWO top-off course for already winged WSOs.

[BossHogg]

In the Air Force, "NO" only means two things.

1. You are not asking the right person.

2. You are not asking at the right time.

[Butters]

In the Air Force, "NO" only means two things.

1. You are not asking the right person.

2. You are not asking at the right time.

3. She wants it.