HUD question

[Guest Dirt Beater]

When flying a jet with a HUD I was curious how much of your time is spent actually looking through the HUD, as opposed to off to the forward-side. I was thinking maybe the symbology could maybe be a nuisance at times and you just look around it?

What about during BFM and SAT?

[BFM this]

It depends. With a full-up HUD like the T-38C, I'd be as likely as not to forget to turn the MFD on during a given sortie.

In the A-10, the HUD is still pretty damn useful, till you start flying instruments. Then you realize why it's not a primary reference: all the nav data is down on the panel. I had to break my HUD habit like the crack addict that I was.

The most useful thing I've found about a HUD (aside from weapons delivery) is that you can nail level flight or desent angles (IE 3 degrees for a precision approach). Flying around VMC, I'll snap my scan to my HUD to get the vector back on the horizon--beats the hell out of scanning your VSI (lags), altimeter (also lags), etc...

Oh, yeah, always recover on the round dials. (foot stomp) Esp at night. Y'know, incase they don't get that beaten into your cranium from the start. Life might suck for the moment or two that it takes for you to dig that nugget out of your clue bag.

I'm just sayin...

[Toro]

I rarely find the symbology to be a nuisance. If you're trying to look through the symbology, you're probably looking for a target - either A/A or A/G. In either case, you're likely to have designation symbology around it that will help you pick up a tally. If it does get in the way, it's easy for us to either turn it down or even declutter certain items from the HUD.

HUD is great for BFM - I don't have to take my eyes off the bandit (If I'm offensive) to cross check altitude or airspeed.

[EvilEagle]

HUD is $$$. It doesn't bother you once you get used to it. Then, they throw a total of two HUD's at you (JHMCS), but you get used to that also. Then, you wonder how you ever did without it.

[Guest Hoser]

With a Hud you also have the option to declutter certain things. Most guys will use the full up HUD, but do know of a few guys that will declutter some options, especially during BFM, to clean up the picture a little bit.

Hoser

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by BFM this:

Oh, yeah, always recover on the round dials. (foot stomp) Esp at night. Y'know, incase they don't get that beaten into your cranium from the start. Life might suck for the moment or two that it takes for you to dig that nugget out of your clue bag.

I'm just sayin...

When we are doing night TF Loft recoveries, we are required to have an ADI up in each cockpit.

Hoser

[ 05. December 2005, 11:53: Message edited by: Hoser ]

[Guest TomandFle]

Slight revival...

I'm wondering if HUD symbology for ground collision avoidance has been updated at all in recent years. For those of you who fly with a HUD, could you describe what type of audio warning and/or visual symbol is used on your A/C for ground avoidance? Do you think it's effective, as far as providing enough information for you to safely execute an avoidance maneuver? Or would something else work better?

Thanks

EDIT: for clarity

[ 02. May 2006, 15:14: Message edited by: TomandFle ]

[Guest rumblefish_2]

In the Viper you'll get a break X and I believe you have three seconds to initiate a recovery. I've only seen it on occasional strafe passes. You can also set an altitude in the ALOW that will give you an audible "altitude" warning if you go below it. The Viper also has some TF "whiskers" you can put in the HUD that get closer together if you are approaching terrain, but I'm not too familiar with that since I never use it. Everything I've used so far is plenty effective for not hitting the ground.

[C17Driver]

TomandFle,

In the C-17, the HUD shows TERRAIN flashing along with an aural cue "TERRAIN TERRAIN" (which the loadmasters hate hearing, especially if no one aknowledges it)

[Toro]

The Strike Eagle has a GCWS (Ground Collision Warning System) that has both an audio warning and HUD warning. B!tchin' Betty to give you a 'Pull Up' Warning and you'll get a huge arrow in the HUD telling you where to put your lift vector to avoid the ground.

There are some bugs in the system - the only time I've ever had it go off was when I was nowhere near hitting the ground. I've had it go off when I'm straight and level in the 20s.

[Guest 92T0Jackal]

Toro

When you were in the 20's did you pull up anyway?

We've had a few guest speakers that flew for the airlines and we hear CONSTANTLY about how we should "never second guess the aural directions and simply do what they tell you".

Like I said, seems silly to pull up at 20 something but Im wondering what the gut reaction was - trust the machine or trust your SA.

[ 02. May 2006, 22:59: Message edited by: Carnal ]

[EvilEagle]

C models don't have any ground avoidance/warning system. We don't even have a radar altimeter.

[Guest Hud Cripple]

HUDs are like crack. The C-130J HUD is pretty damn cool. All kinds of info.

BTW- The J HUD is certified as the primary flight display.

[Guest Hoser]

Originally posted by Carnal:

Toro

When you were in the 20's did you pull up anyway?

We've had a few guest speakers that flew for the airlines and we hear CONSTANTLY about how we should "never second guess the aural directions and simply do what they tell you".

Like I said, seems silly to pull up at 20 something but Im wondering what the gut reaction was - trust the machine or trust your SA.

I've had the same experience with the GCWS in the 15E going off in the low 20's out/back to the Whiskey's.

I do not blindly follow the GCWS. Not sure how early it would go off from an approaching aircraft, but that's what my APG-70 is for.

Hoser

[Guest nikes45]

Is the Strike Eagle equipped with the JHMCS?

[Guest KoolKat]

"B1tching Betty" That's funny. I call mine Bob, although he does have a very femine voice!

The damn thing goes off at me all the time in the 130.

The most irritating time is when your doing a T&G and your climbing out and he calls "Glide Slope, Glide Slope!"

Thanks dude, but the approach was over a minute ago!

It will also holler "Whoop Whoop, Pull up!" at some weird times.

If you know your at 20k, there isn't any reason to do anything.

But, like was already said, if you fly a crew airplane..."Ackowledged" is always appreciated.

BENDY

EDIT: By the way, what's a HUD? Sounds nice.

[ 07. May 2006, 23:04: Message edited by: Bender ]

[Guest lovelacm]

"Terrain Terrain" - followed by "Visually clear, crew" is always a good response...

"Don't think - Don't think" is always a good chuckle, especially on climb-out from BIAP, gaining some smash so you can get to cornering velocity and have energy to maneuver and avoid the lovely MANPADs from the Haji's around the perimeter...

"Fraps, Fraps" used to be a great joke among our crew... from taxi'ing "too fast" for Betty's comfort. Oh well... she learned how to live with us on a Rote.

HUD? In a Herk? My "meow" hurts... I can't fly an assault... My "meow" hurts... that's an EP. Get over it... it's a HERK.

Cheers!

Linda

[Toro]

Originally posted by nikes45:

Is the Strike Eagle equipped with the JHMCS?

No

[Guest Rainman A-10]

The A-10 HUD was crap. I almost never looked at the HUD in the A-10 until I was ready to set a track reference A/G or hammer down A/A. I am bigger than most and I only lowered the seat enough so that I had a tight fist clnc from the top of the canopy. That way I could look over the top of the HUD and hunker down to look at the HUD when I needed something. I liked looking out the big window they put in the airplane.

I did use it to fly in the weather, especially before we had any kind of autopilot. I also used it flying handmade GPS approaches to unlit landing surfaces at night on the goggles...invaluable. I used it to save my life whe I had an ADI failure on departure when the wx was 300/1 and my ADI failed as soon as I set my climb attitude and entered the weather. Kind of alarming when I couldn't figure out what was so screwed up and then I glanced into the HUD to see inverted and dashed pitch ladders below 1000' AGL when I was supposed to be climbing out on a trail departure.

The low altitude warning crap was a real pain in the ass at 100'. PULL-UP PULL-UP, ALTITUDE ALTITUDE all the way into the target. Thanks Betty but I am paying closer attention to what is next to the jet right now than I do when I am pulling into the ICT pit or the HAS...how about you get off my ass, stop distracting me and CEASE BUZZER, you b!tch!

Personally, I found the ceiling and floor warnings at medium altitude at night much more useful. It was handy to have a reminder that I needed to check blocks when I had a face full of targeting pod and a fist full of airplane in crappy weather with a tight block and lots of friends in the vcty.

[Guest Hydro130]

"CEASE BUZZER, you b!tch!" -- Rainman

How true!

I've wanted to STRANGLE BETTY many times...

Hydro

EDIT: Inadequate quoting skills...

[ 08. May 2006, 11:14: Message edited by: Hydro130 ]

[Guest Hydro130]

Oh, and I too have heard that the Herk J HUD is nothing short of incredible...

That thing sounds pretty amazing. Although I've never flown with a HUD, I can see how they would be addictive...

Other than writing down flight info, etc on the windows with a grease pencil, we didn't have much of a HUD in the E and H models! :D

Hydro

[Guest dtfl]

Originally posted by Hydro130:

Oh, and I too have heard that the Herk J HUD is nothing short of incredible...

That thing sounds pretty amazing. Although I've never flown with a HUD, I can see how they would be addictive...

Other than writing down flight info, etc on the windows with a grease pencil, we didn't have much of a HUD in the E and H models! :D

Hydro

Addictive? How is this for addictive? Last time a CP bud of mine and I were flying a pro he decided to do a "heads down" approach - meaning, put the HUD up, the PFD pops on your display and you fly, looking down at the ADI, HIS and tape guages...he told me to "Make sure I was monitoring him" and keep my HUD down. I started laughing at how we were almost approaching it like an EP, yet almost everyone else in the WORLD flies off their ADI and HSI.

Thats addictive!