F-35 Lightning/JSF (Joint Strike Fighter)

[Jenkspaz]

Really good article, just posted today, about the new class of instructors for the JSF. Also has a good timeline for production, training, operations, etc.

10 pilots chosen as 1st instructors for F-35

[BFM this]

Start pouring concrete at Gila Bend. Noone is worried about noise or encroachment there.

[Duck]

So when will the first UPT studs get selected to fly it? 2010, 2011? Any takers?

[HiFlyer]

So when will the first UPT studs get selected to fly it? 2010, 2011? Any takers?

If history is any guide, don't expect it to happen that soon. As I recall, from F-100 to F-4 it was about three- four years from the time the first aircraft hit an ops sqdn, and for the F-4 to F-15 and F-16 and from F-15 to F-22 probably about the same. It takes a while to get a good idea from mission-experienced pilots of what the TTPs (Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures) for a new aircraft ought to be before you start putting new guys into it, and to build a good supervision base from top to bottom to run things.. I'd shoot more for the 2012-2013 period, and thats assuming the first ops sqdn gets airplanes in 2010...which might be a bit optimistic.

Edited February 4, 2009 by HiFlyer

[FallingOsh]

Really good article, just posted today, about the new class of instructors for the JSF. Also has a good timeline for production, training, operations, etc.

10 pilots chosen as 1st instructors for F-35

I think it's interesting how many different airframes they're taking for the initial cadre. It could make the final decision on a syllabus more entertaining.

The 10 initial cadre pilots — seven pilots from F-16 cockpits and three pilots from F-15E Strike Eagles — are predominately graduates of the Air Force Weapons School with instructor experience and more than 1,500 hours in fighters. If any of those pilots are unavailable to join the squadron, several pilot alternates, including A-10 Thunderbolt aviators, were selected to fill the spots.

[Guest Krabs]

I think it's interesting how many different airframes they're taking for the initial cadre. It could make the final decision on a syllabus more entertaining.

The 10 initial cadre pilots — seven pilots from F-16 cockpits and three pilots from F-15E Strike Eagles — are predominately graduates of the Air Force Weapons School with instructor experience and more than 1,500 hours in fighters. If any of those pilots are unavailable to join the squadron, several pilot alternates, including A-10 Thunderbolt aviators, were selected to fill the spots.

That makes sense to me, given the airframes it is planning to replace. I'm surprised they don't have at least one A-10 guy in there.

[donkey]

That makes sense to me, given the airframes it is planning to replace. I'm surprised they don't have at least one A-10 guy in there.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[busdriver]

Based on the timeline of when it will "replace" the A-10, I'm inclined to think it isn't. The A-10 is simply going to go away and the Air Force will finally be rid of the hated Hog.

<-Cynic

[Guest Krabs]

Based on the timeline of when it will "replace" the A-10, I'm inclined to think it isn't. The A-10 is simply going to go away and the Air Force will finally be rid of the hated Hog.

<-Cynic

Nothing can replace the A-10 except an aircraft designed for that mission, so I'm inclined to agree with you busdriver. It will be a sad day when the Hogs go. The Air Force cant even buy enough F-22s, much less have any money for something that does CAS.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Krabs

[Guest Krabs]

It doesn't surprise me at all. Just about every unique skill-set an A-10 pilot possesses won't mean a thing in the cockpit of an F-35. Hog drivers are CAS pilots, but the JSF isn't a CAS platform. The F-35 is just going to be another pointy nose fighter doing Bomber-CAS with JDAM's from the bozosphere with limited gas, ordnance, and SA. As I think everyone agrees, it's not a replacement for the Hog, just a (very poor) substitute.

Prescisely.

I'm still surprised they wouldn't keep up the guise of "replacing" the A-10 with at least one Hog driver on the cadre though. Maybe the Air Force just doesn't give a crap about real CAS?

[TreeA10]

Prescisely.

I'm still surprised they wouldn't keep up the guise of "replacing" the A-10 with at least one Hog driver on the cadre though. Maybe the Air Force just doesn't give a crap about real CAS?

This makes the drastic assumption that the Air Force gave a crap about CAS, as Hog drivers know it, before.

[Guest Krabs]

This makes the drastic assumption that the Air Force gave a crap about CAS, as Hog drivers know it, before.

I assumed the Air Force cared about politics, and as such would make a half-assed effort to look diversified.

[Stuck]

https://airforcetimes.com/news/2009/02/airf..._eglin_020609w/

Looks like Eglin it is.

Cheers!

- Stuck

[Guest CAVEMAN]

Maybe the Air Force just doesn't give a crap about real CAS?

I do not think you are far from the truth.

[donkey]

Just a few questions.

Which base would have been the "better" place for the school house, Eglin or Luke? Were there any compromises, or was Luke always just a backup in case Eglin didn't work out (the way I understand it is Eglin was always the first choice)?

Also, I'm a little confused about when the first F-35's will arrive for training. In one article it says 35's should arrive sometime in 2010, but in another one it says 2011. Am I just mixing up different stages of the training schedule/ w/e?

In 2009, another nine planes should begin flying, the Air Force officer overseeing F-35 development, Maj. Gen. Charles Davis, said during a Jan. 15 briefing. Operational jets for training should arrive in 2010, and about 144 planes a year should be rolling out of the factory by the end of 2013.

Friday’s decision clears the way for the first F-35 to arrive at Eglin in March 2011. Fifty-nine F-35s will be stationed there by 2013, including the Marine Corps and Navy versions of the fighter.

[Bullet]

The last round of BRAC decisions dictated the selection of Eglin for a Joint F-35 Training Center. Construction of the required facilities (hangars, sims, Ops buildings, etc.) will start almost immediately now that the decision has been officially released. The first few jests start arriving next year for the initial cadre to train on.

I think the Mar 2011 quote was a mis-print or mis-quote from the media (figure the odds of that!)

[donkey]

The last round of BRAC decisions dictated the selection of Eglin for a Joint F-35 Training Center. Construction of the required facilities (hangars, sims, Ops buildings, etc.) will start almost immediately now that the decision has been officially released. The first few jests start arriving next year for the initial cadre to train on.

I think the Mar 2011 quote was a mis-print or mis-quote from the media (figure the odds of that!)

Gotcha, thanks.

[TreeA10]

Just a few questions.

Which base would have been the "better" place for the school house, Eglin or Luke? Were there any compromises, or was Luke always just a backup in case Eglin didn't work out (the way I understand it is Eglin was always the first choice)?

Also, I'm a little confused about when the first F-35's will arrive for training. In one article it says 35's should arrive sometime in 2010, but in another one it says 2011. Am I just mixing up different stages of the training schedule/ w/e?

I can't say I'm real involved in the F-35's at Eglin but I was down there last year to look at the Reserves getting involved in the test wing and the F-35 topic came up. Mulling it over some thoughts came up: Noise footprint. Again, not a decible expert but the thing is louder than the F-16. Luke already had land buffers that met requirements. Airspace. There may be some problems with our coalition partners sharing airspace with the F-22. Runway configuration. Not optimal for the sortie rates they are going to need.

My guess is you will see the F-35 program start up at Eglin and then an additional RTU will be established at Luke.

Edited February 9, 2009 by TreeA10

[Fishnucc]

So when will the first UPT studs get selected to fly it? 2010, 2011? Any takers?

I talked to a Lockheed engineer/rep at the AETC symposium in San Antonio a few weeks back. He said it should start dropping to studs in 2013

[ClearedHot]

I talked to a Lockheed engineer/rep at the AETC symposium in San Antonio a few weeks back. He said it should start dropping to studs in 2013

Yeah the Lockheed engineers decide all the UPT drops for the next 10 years...WTF?

[Fishnucc]

Yeah the Lockheed engineers decide all the UPT drops for the next 10 years...WTF?

Apparently...

[donkey]

From Air Force Times...

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/05/...t_suit_050109w/

Air Force fields special flight suit for JSF

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer

Posted : Friday May 1, 2009 10:05:00 EDT

Pilots flying the F-35 Lightning II are getting their own flight suit, a more comfortable one that will protect their arms if they have to eject from the stealth fighter.

The sage-green flight suit looks like the one now worn by thousands of other airmen except for no line-cutter pocket on the left leg and the addition of a removable fabric cord attached to each upper sleeve, said Cheryl Limrick, a spokeswoman for the Joint Strike Fighter program office in Arlington, Va.

Officially called the “JSF light-weight coverall,” the flight suit has been tested by designer RFD Beaufort but isn’t being worn yet by the Air Force’s handful of Joint Strike Fighter pilots, Limrick said. No date has been set for when the pilots will get the flight suit.

RFD Beaufort, a British firm specializing in aviation survival gear, is also making cold-weather, fire-retardant underwear and an anti-G vest and pants for the JSP pilots, she said. The pants will have the line-cutter pocket that was dropped from the flight suit.

Pilots wear the fabric cords only when they’re in the cockpit. The cords connect to the centerline harness buckle on the ejection seat and come into play only if the pilot starts to eject.

The cords are drawn tight once the pilot pulls the ejection seat handle between his legs and the seat begins to rocket out of the cockpit. The arm restraints prevent the pilot’s arms from flaying; contact with debris or the cockpit during a high-speed ejection can seriously injure the pilot.

Once the pilot is clear of the plane and separates from the ejection seat, his arms go free.

The flight suit is made of an improved fire-resistant fabric developed by Dupont, Limrick said. “Nomex Comfort” feels better against the skin than DuPont’s commonly used Nomex III fabric because it is made of smaller, finer filaments.

The finer filaments produce a trio of improvements:

• More of the fabric touches the skin to wick away sweat and moisture.

• Smaller threads create a smoother fabric that doesn’t run against skin, similar to why a bed sheet with high thread count is smoother than a sheet with a low thread count.

• The finer threads are more tightly woven together, making the fabric more durable. The material is less likely to pull apart at the seams or pill in areas that are rubbed against such as elbows. Airmen wearing flight suits often complain about pilling and unsightly seams.

Part of fielding the flight suit includes making sure it fits well.

Researchers from Air Force Materiel Command’s 711th Human Performance Wing spent two weeks in March at Laughlin Air Force Base, Texas, asking pilots to compare the fit of their current flight suit to the new flight suit, said Greg Zehner, the 711th’s anthropologist.

The team asked pilots to do several tasks such as lifting their legs or bending over to tie their shoes and rate the suit’s comfort as they moved about.

The 711th staff also measured the pilots to compare their arm length and inseam, for example, to uniform sizes.

[Steve Davies]

Also, I'm a little confused about when the first F-35's will arrive for training. In one article it says 35's should arrive sometime in 2010, but in another one it says 2011.

The 422 TES, which will help get the F-35 ready for front line service and IOC, are not expecting their first jet to arrive until 2012.

Given that they'll be receiving upwards of 13 of them, the indications are that the road to IOC is going to be both steep and long.

[JarheadBoom]

Re: the new "JSF" bag...

If the arm lanyards are removable, then just issue the fuckers to everyone, not just one community. Reading the article, it sounds like several of the biggest issues with the current bag are addressed with this one. One-bag-for-all is, logistically, better than one-bag-for-one-community and one-bag-for-everyone-else.

Of course, that's common sense.... so it won't happen.

[Guest Krabs]

Nifty video.

https://www.es.northropgrumman.com/solution...eodasvideo.html

They seem to be pretty confident about high off-boresite weapons.