Commercial pilot, good or bad?

[Guest Future_raptordriver]

I am in the situation where I have the opportunity to attend a civilian flight school and get all the ratings (PPC/IR/Com./CFI/CFII/ME/MEI) and then go to college and get a degree.

Naturally, I'm considering an aviation college, cause I would be able to work part-time as an instructor to pay for tuition/get hours. This way I would get a Bachelor and at the same time be educated and experienced as a civilian aviator, so if something unforseen happends that disqualifies me for military aviation I will be able to work in commercial aviation.

However, I fear that if I show up with 1000-1500 hours flying time and all those ratings, the OTS-board will think "hey, this guy has got so much flying time that he'll never be able to "convert" to military flying" ... or something like that. What I'm asking is would it be down right disadvantegous to show up with all that flight time, or will it be positive/neutral?

I hope someone has a direct answer, or opinions on the matter. All answers will be appreciated!

BTW: I know many people advice future pilots to take a non-aviation degree in case of health issues, however that is not the topic of this question;)

Future raptor driver!

_________________

Check six!

[Guest seebee]

I am in the situation where I have the opportunity to attend a civilian flight school and get all the ratings (PPC/IR/Com./CFI/CFII/ME/MEI) and then go to college and get a degree.

Naturally, I'm considering an aviation college, cause I would be able to work part-time as an instructor to pay for tuition/get hours. This way I would get a Bachelor and at the same time be educated and experienced as a civilian aviator, so if something unforseen happends that disqualifies me for military aviation I will be able to work in commercial aviation.

However, I fear that if I show up with 1000-1500 hours flying time and all those ratings, the OTS-board will think "hey, this guy has got so much flying time that he'll never be able to "convert" to military flying" ... or something like that. What I'm asking is would it be down right disadvantegous to show up with all that flight time, or will it be positive/neutral?

I hope someone has a direct answer, or opinions on the matter. All answers will be appreciated!

BTW: I know many people advice future pilots to take a non-aviation degree in case of health issues, however that is not the topic of this question;)

Future raptor driver!

_________________

Check six!

As far as I know, the air force never frowns upon too much civilian flight time. In fact, I think it would only serve you better as it indicates your level of dedication to aviation, which is just one more thing that might insure the board that you would successfully make it through pilot training. Regarding a non-aviation degree, a lot of people involved in commercial aviation, the airline industry in particular, often advise those interested in such a career track to have a fall back education simply because it is almost inevitable that as an airline pilot you would be furloughed at least once in your career.

[Guest troxm25]

Best way to answer this is a hypothetical situation similar to yours...but let’s use road vehicles. Yes, there is a difference between flying a multi-million dollar aircraft and driving, but it proves my point.

Question: "Should I not get my car drivers license and become a driving instructor because I want to become an Army long road truck driver?" Assuming you have a driver’s license, the question seems ridiculous!

Obviously(?), you would jump at the opportunity to get on the road, build hours, learn the local rules and regulations and build a road sense.

The military can teach ALMOST anyone to fly, it is the mission tasks that eliminates most. As a CFI you will learn the rules & regs., prove you have the aptitude to fly, and you will build air sense.

Get as many rating as you can, it will only help you.

[Guest Jimmy]

2 on the non-aviation degree. God knows what will happen to you years down the road.

If this happens to you and you are sidelined from being a commercial aviator (assuming this is what you eventually wanna do), you might want to know how to weave baskets in order to make a living while you decide what to do with your life and career. It happens to a lot of people for a lot of reasons, especially with the airline market being the way it is stateside.

Though on a side note, it might be a decent idea to go after an ATPL. It opens your career opportunities overseas, especially in Europe where the airline market is BOOMING and it would be nice to be a JAA licensed airline transport pilot to take advantage of that if you're adventurous.

I think I'm kind of off-topic though.

[AA]

I started UPT with 3500 civy hours, ATP and 2 jet types. QUALITY flight time CAN be a huge advantage to allow you to choose which track you want. Your attitude about it will make or break you. Having said that, I don't care what anyone says, an ILS is an ILS. So what that you learn what the USAF rules on it are. When you have that much time, you can fly ILS approaches inverted while smoking a lucky if they asked you to. Formation is the point where I fell off the cliff and started acting like a student pilot. T-38 Instrument/Nav was a joke, formation was a differnt story. IFF is where I was on par. Hope that helps.

Long live the LPA!

[ucf_motorcycle]

I started pilot training with a multi engine commercial. And although it did help me with the flying skills. I think if I had to do it over again I would have saved my money. I am still paying for the 200 civilian hours of flight training that I got. It was beneficial but was not worth it. A few hours of Instrument time would probably have been sufficient.

If I had to do it over again (mind you everything worked out fine, but now I am paying for it) I would have started off in a State school (took me 3 semesters to figure out I was throwing my money away at a private institution.) Got a degree that I could fall back on and found the cheapest FBO to do a couple of hours of flight training.

Forget about those big aviation academies they are mostly overpriced well marketed crap holes that lure those that don't know better. Like me; I learned the hard way.

[Guest Future_raptordriver]

Thanks for all the insight!

As for the financial part, I have the resources to handle it. That is the reason I want to go to a regular flight school before college, cause I will have the opportunity to work as an instructor at the same college I take my degree, and thus earn money and get some free credithours. Offcourse i might be unlucky and not get hired at the college, but hey, nothing in life is guaranteed, right?

AA/ucf_motorcycle: What airframes are you flying?

And, I call myself "Future raptordriver", but I'm not one of those "the raptor is the only thing I'm gonna fly, cause I'm shit hot and the air force just have to deal with it"-dudes. It's partially cause I just had to get a nick, and partially cause the raptor is awesome and I would be priviliged as h*** if I got to fly it in the future

Meanwhile, check six!

Edited December 1, 2007 by Future_raptordriver

[Guest egovolo]

.... However, I fear that if I show up with 1000-1500 hours flying time and all those ratings, the OTS-board will think "hey, this guy has got so much flying time that he'll never be able to "convert" to military flying" ... or something like that. What I'm asking is would it be down right disadvantegous to show up with all that flight time, or will it be positive/neutral? ...

I had around 3000 hours at the time, and could been flying LR-60s or another well paying corporate gig. By applying with that much time, I think I was able to demonstrate that I really wanted to fly as a military pilot instead of easily taking a job in the civilian world.

[Guest STLCFII]

Why don't you look into a college that has an aviation program that isn't ridiculously priced? Someone told me that at Parks College (Part of St. Louis University) their pilot training program is included in the normal tuition. It doesn't cost a penny more to learn to fly and get an aeronautics degree than it would to get one in basket weaving. Since it sounds like you want to go AD, they also have an AFROTC program. You could theoretically have your ROTC scholarship pay for all your flying. A great plus over somewhere like ERAU where it doesn't cover the flying and cost A LOT extra. On top of that, you will save a lot of time/money over doing it the other way. Get to your final objective faster and study something you really want to rather than something that will just be a fall back. Just my 2 Cents...

https://parks.slu.edu/index.php

[WheelsOff]

Hi,

I'm a financial analyst that is hoping to join the AF to become a pilot. The whole reason I'm doing the job I have is to be able to finance my PPL, which I am working on currently. I really would like a career as a pilot, but would MUCH rather do it as an officer in the military, rather than as Capt. Joe Schmoe for _____ airline.

Don't get me wrong--there's absolutely nothing wrong with Civ aviation, and I would gladly do it as a back up career to the AF. Like I've said though I would much rather fly as an AF officer. Would the board members who select OTS applicants look favorably towards someone who quit their 8-5 desk flying job to become a civilian pilot (say for the airlines or whatever)? Or would it be in my best interests to not spend a fortune on an airline pilot academy program and keep working my lame desk job, and just have my PPL/whatever other rating(s) I can accumulate before the next board?

Thanks in advance

[Jon - Trident Home Loans]

I wouldn't wastle the money/time to become an airline pilot unless that is something you want to do. Building hours and experience is a great thing however you do it. I have multiple people in my class who we're desk jockey's before getting selected for UPT. That being said it is extremely difficult to get a UPT slot out of OTS. You may consider looking into the ANG or AFR and applying with them, that's what worked for them...just my 2 cents

[WheelsOff]

"That being said it is extremely difficult to get a UPT slot out of OTS. You may consider looking into the ANG or AFR and applying with them, that's what worked for them...just my 2 cents"

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I thought that if you were selected as a pilot on an OTS board, and everything goes well in your FC1, then you get your UPT slot. Are you saying that you have to apply separately for a UPT slot? If so, doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of applying/getting selected for a pilot slot on an OTS board??

Edited April 3, 2008 by dml02b

[Guest LittleMan]

"That being said it is extremely difficult to get a UPT slot out of OTS. You may consider looking into the ANG or AFR and applying with them, that's what worked for them...just my 2 cents"

You can also correct me if I'm wrong, but from all that I've read at the forums here and at wantscheck, it's a lot more difficult (as far as qualifications) and you have to have higher scores to get an ANG or AFR slot than an AD slot. It might just be that the only AD guys that have posted their pre-UPT quals were not that great (and the ones that were great just haven't posted), but everything I've read says that the ANG and AFR slots are much more competitive.

[WheelsOff]

You can also correct me if I'm wrong, but from all that I've read at the forums here and at wantscheck, it's a lot more difficult (as far as qualifications) and you have to have higher scores to get an ANG or AFR slot than an AD slot. It might just be that the only AD guys that have posted their pre-UPT quals were not that great (and the ones that were great just haven't posted), but everything I've read says that the ANG and AFR slots are much more competitive.

Yes, I too have heard that ANG/AFR slots are harder to come by and are more competitive.

flyaf05's comment still does not makes sense though--naturally you should be given a UPT slot once you complete OTS since you've already been selected by a board for a pilot slot, correct? Otherwise, what's the purpose of applying for a pilot slot to begin with???

[brabus]

He meant it's very competitive to get a pilot slot through OTS (yes, you already have the slot prior to OTS). From what I've seen in both OTS and Guard/Reserves "require" similar scores, LORs, etc. It's much harder to get slots through those two avenues than through ROTC or the AFA. Either way, don't quit your job and go get a bunch of hours. Get your PPL, fly when you can for the fun of it and apply. Many dudes get OTS slots w/ "just" a PPL.

[Guest burner]

Having flown for both the Military and the Airlines...

Check as many civilian flying boxes as your financial situation will reasonably allow.

When you get in the AF, check as many flying boxes your career will allow.

You can't go wrong. Get your ATP as early as you can, also.

I'm with gearpig. As a former AF 130 guy, I got all my FAA ratings at VPS/Eglin Aero club, while I was stationed at HRT; $4k over 4 yrs, ending with CFII-ME in 92. UPT was not option, but I eventually got the ATP, and am now former Regional airliner. Although I know one ATP guy who elim'd on his 38 form ck, I think getting all the flt hrs can only help. The airlines had different rules than AF, but the flying was similar. As a former nav, I always liked being an instuctor, since sitting being the non-flying guy and talking one through it felt just like being a nav again. Best of luck, make it work for you!

Edited June 24, 2011 by burner